Am I the only person who is utterly unenthused right now about a generic FPS being shoehorned into my spaceship game?

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Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Tryst said:
How many decades was it since FD announced ED to when it was released?
Announced as Elite 4 in the early 90's and then shelved by FD until early 2000 at least.
Finally released in 2014 as an online only game that a lot of people were severely disappointed about.
That's 24 years of potential development time, at least half of it wasted while DB waited for tech to catch up to do what he wanted. They could have assigned a small team of 3 to work on it during that time to do most of the things like this. It's not like it had never been done before, the original Freelancer from the 80's went to different places in the station, even though it was teleport to each location. WOW and many other similar games allowed walking seamlessly around a huge map. No, instead, Elite 4 sat on a shelf gathering dust for most of those 24 years.

IF DB was serious about producing a mind blowing game when tech allowed it, he would have worked on it, even on a small scale, to get it ready. Instead he sat on it, doing nothing until over 10 years later. When it did hit the market, even Star Citizen was doing stuff like walking in ships and on the landing pads that ED should already have been able to do.

A little back history:
After a lengthy legal battle to wrest the rights to Elite from Ian Bell, DB then announced Elite 4 under the name of Frontier Developments.
This announcement was shortly revoked and the web site taken down, much to the disappointment of many fans while DB said he "wanted tech to catch up with his vision of the game."
Frontier Developments went back to creating quick and simple games, many being developed for mobile gaming industry.
Any contact with Frontier about Elite 4 were met with silence.

Many fans speculated that the original announcement was DB flexing his muscles to tell Ian Bell that he wasn't needed to make the game, but DB grossly overestimated his own skills, realising that he wasn't actually skilled enough to do it on his own after all. He needed more skilled programmers etc to help. When I read that speculation, I did see the logic in how people had come to that conclusion.
This speculation by fans was supported by the release of other online games with a persistent map (Eve Online in particular) and detailed graphics that had been in heavy early development during the time DB shelved Elite 4.

Fast forward a little under 10 years and FD suddenly announced Elite Dangerous. A lot of fans were a bit jaded from the previous false announcement.
What was finally released was similar to Eve Online with a cockpit view and minus the jump gates, but still warping in to a set location. No ability to get out at a station (even though Eve Online had already cracked that with WIS, albeit with a black screen transition and SC had already developed walking around seamlessly from ship to station).
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Irrelevant.

All you're saying is you would have done things differently.

Ok, that's fine. Its not the order FD have chosen to do stuff.

I don't agree with all their decisions. I wouldn't have spent any time on CQC or Powerplay (unless of course CQC was a requirement imposed by MS as part of the Xbox deal, then their hands were probably tied).

Hell, i'd have done a lot of things differently. But then, the forums would have been full of people telling me i was wrong for doing it the way i did :p

Also, invoking SC? That's not a good example. That's a very good example of how not to do a game.

What you can't say though is you would have delivered everything FD have done to date AND walking in cockpits as well. Time and money and resources.
 

Alien

Alien
Tryst said:
How many decades was it since FD announced ED to when it was released?
Announced as Elite 4 in the early 90's and then shelved by FD until early 2000 at least.
Finally released in 2014 as an online only game that a lot of people were severely disappointed about.
That's 24 years of potential development time, at least half of it wasted while DB waited for tech to catch up to do what he wanted. They could have assigned a small team of 3 to work on it during that time to do most of the things like this. It's not like it had never been done before, the original Freelancer from the 80's went to different places in the station, even though it was teleport to each location. WOW and many other similar games allowed walking seamlessly around a huge map. No, instead, Elite 4 sat on a shelf gathering dust for most of those 24 years.
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First, Elite Dangerous was announced on November 6th 2012 .... I was there (and by that I do mean I was actively looking at this forum the moment it was announced)
Elite Dangerous was released December 2014 .... so that's 2 years development. Not decades
You can't claim Frontier announced Elite 4, because I can tell you for a fact, they didn't. I've even had Michael Brookes tell me (while sitting right next to me) "Elite 4 never existed" (direct quote).

Elite 4 was rumoured for years before the announcement of Elite Dangerous, but we don't know how much work went on before the kickstarter, so to all intents and purposes, it was zero.
 

Alien

Alien
Tryst said:
IF DB was serious about producing a mind blowing game when tech allowed it, he would have worked on it, even on a small scale, to get it ready. Instead he sat on it, doing nothing until over 10 years later. When it did hit the market, even Star Citizen was doing stuff like walking in ships and on the landing pads that ED should already have been able to do.

A little back history:
After a lengthy legal battle to wrest the rights to Elite from Ian Bell, DB then announced Elite 4 under the name of Frontier Developments.
This announcement was shortly revoked and the web site taken down, much to the disappointment of many fans while DB said he "wanted tech to catch up with his vision of the game."
Frontier Developments went back to creating quick and simple games, many being developed for mobile gaming industry.
Any contact with Frontier about Elite 4 were met with silence.

Many fans speculated that the original announcement was DB flexing his muscles to tell Ian Bell that he wasn't needed to make the game, but DB grossly overestimated his own skills, realising that he wasn't actually skilled enough to do it on his own after all. He needed more skilled programmers etc to help. When I read that speculation, I did see the logic in how people had come to that conclusion.
This speculation by fans was supported by the release of other online games with a persistent map (Eve Online in particular) and detailed graphics that had been in heavy early development during the time DB shelved Elite 4.

Fast forward a little under 10 years and FD suddenly announced Elite Dangerous. A lot of fans were a bit jaded from the previous false announcement.
What was finally released was similar to Eve Online with a cockpit view and minus the jump gates, but still warping in to a set location. No ability to get out at a station (even though Eve Online had already cracked that with WIS, albeit with a black screen transition and SC had already developed walking around seamlessly from ship to station).
Click to expand...
And as for the rest of your post .... this is 100% speculation. You are stating as fact, things you cannot possibly know.
 

4ndr34

4ndr34
Alien said:
this is 100% speculation
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not 100%...
...in the part of the post you quoted there are different sections...
...he has stated what it is speculation and what instead is back history...
...and I don't know him, but I was there, I mean not on ED announcement, but once upon a time, since the second chapter of this franchise...
...and about his critics in his post they are absolutely personal, maybe he forgot to put a IMHO, but, to be honest, it's pretty hard to see any wrong in his critics...
...the sad fact that his critics are as sound as able to change nothing... ...not at all... ...if I have to reason without any hopes and any expectations about this game, IMHO it's doomed to struggle to survive...
...But looking at the numbers, they seem to contradict me, because the game playerbase has never been so much populated like this is right now... ...but I invite you all to look deeper and wider that just the number value and maybe to wonder about if this is just the effect of forever expected features and hopes to be delivered in the imminent odissey season combined with the new FPS on the shelf effect... ...I am stating that because the big increment start just this year, the gameplay reveal trailer is dated on youtube Dec 11, 2020, with a big in big increment this month, Pre-Alpha footage dated on youtube Mar 4, 2021, IMHO seems a lot to me the odissey season effect...
...I let you to wonder what happens if it is a delusion to most of these new playerbase...
 

CMDR Karrde Sun

CMDR Karrde Sun
[VR] Golgot said:
Yeah but the point is that that's probably unsustainable no? Even as Braben's babby ED has got to pay its way long-term.

Napkin maths has the franchise itself running damn near the red. If EDO were to do poorly, and ED not see a long-term influx in revenue, I can't see them spending another $12m approx pa, for several years, to have one more punt at another PDLC. FDev isn't doing that well ;)

I reckon EDO will probably do fine long-term. But another full-fat DLC def isn't a given at this point.
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Well, that would be on them though, not us.

You'd think that the growing playerbase of elite would justify filling in the skeletons since pre horizons days... but they haven't. Its still undirected and doesn't have even a small portion that answers mainstream expectations, even as a leader into the open sandbox.

Even us now that adapted and enjoy it, people are somewhat desperate for content, yeah frontier in their wisdom have copied and pasted horizons, swapped out the locomotion mechanic and thrown a few more things in the pot? Im interesting in the impression that leaves once you've gone around and scored everything.. here it is, but its horizons again?

At least if odysee doesn't do well in the fantasy scenario you suggest, id like to add its not our fault.
 

VR Golgot

VR Golgot
CMDR Karrde Sun said:
At least if odysee doesn't do well in the fantasy scenario you suggest, id like to add its not our fault.
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Never said it was man.

I don’t really have much time for the 'should have done it this way' school of thought tbh. They’re doing what they’re doing, and no community action can change the big beats once they’re in motion. I’ve never really seen the point in wishing otherwise.

That’s the optimistic middle ;). Notice the core changes that are coming with EDO (Multicrew Wing/SRV improvements etc). Influence the small beats that you can via feedback. Judge the new when it’s in your hands.

Everything else is wasted energy it seems to me ¯\(ツ)/¯
 
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CMDR Karrde Sun

CMDR Karrde Sun
[VR] Golgot said:
Never said it was man.

I don’t really have much time for the 'should have done it this way' school of thought tbh. They’re doing what they’re doing, and no community action can change the big beats once they’re in motion. I’ve never really seen the point in wishing otherwise.

That’s the optimistic middle ;). Notice the core changes that are coming with EDO (Multicrew Wing/SRV improvements etc). Influence the small beats that you can via feedback. Judge the new when it’s in your hands.

Everything else is wasted energy it seems to me ¯\(ツ)/¯
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Hey I always wanted space legs. The same model as horizons (another separate mission board with missions) I have to admit I need convincing on.

I hope they get the fail on death mechanic right too.
 

thistle

T
Tryst said:
Announced as Elite 4 in the early 90's and then shelved by FD until early 2000 at least.
Click to expand...
So FD announced Elite 4 in the early 90's? Before Frontier Elite2 in 1993, before FD was then created in 1994, and before First Encounters in 1995? He's a wizard, that Braben.

IF DB was serious about producing a mind blowing game when tech allowed it, he would have worked on it, even on a small scale, to get it ready.
Click to expand...
Would he have, though?

Why?

What was finally released ... No ability to get out at a station (even though Eve Online had already cracked that with WIS, albeit with a black screen transition and SC had already developed walking around seamlessly from ship to station).
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Well, no, by 2014 they had a hangar module so you could walk around your fidelitous chariot and * dream * and of course they had a completely separate Arena Commander module.

Apart from that ... no, the rest of your post is just you theorycrafting as a sort-of pretend David Braben. Which is weird.
 

lysan

lysan
thistle said:
So FD announced Elite 4 in the early 90's? Before Frontier Elite2 in 1993, before FD was then created in 1994, and before First Encounters in 1995? He's a wizard, that Braben.


Would he have, though?

Why?


Well, no, by 2014 they had a hangar module so you could walk around your fidelitous chariot and * dream * and of course they had a completely separate Arena Commander module.

Apart from that ... no, the rest of your post is just you theorycrafting as a sort-of pretend David Braben. Which is weird.
Click to expand...
Well as we love fact over truth here let me just add Elite 4 was around 1998/99 but I digress.
 

lysan

lysan
Alien said:
First, Elite Dangerous was announced on November 6th 2012 .... I was there (and by that I do mean I was actively looking at this forum the moment it was announced)
Elite Dangerous was released December 2014 .... so that's 2 years development. Not decades
You can't claim Frontier announced Elite 4, because I can tell you for a fact, they didn't. I've even had Michael Brookes tell me (while sitting right next to me) "Elite 4 never existed" (direct quote).

Elite 4 was rumoured for years before the announcement of Elite Dangerous, but we don't know how much work went on before the kickstarter, so to all intents and purposes, it was zero.
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Not entirely true, DB said that some skunk work was done when they aired the idea for Elite 4, it was just an idea conceived around 1998, however they never made it into a real project before 2012, then named Elite Dangerous.
 
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4ndr34

4ndr34
thistle said:
So FD announced Elite 4 in the early 90's? Before Frontier Elite2 in 1993, before FD was then created in 1994, and before First Encounters in 1995?
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I agree early 90 is wrong, it's possible that he has just written early thinking about late and he didn't care of editing it back...
thistle said:
He's a wizard, that Braben.
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Yes it was, there was a time that he was a wizard developer and game designer, a once upon a time that he did something that no one other was able to do and above all that everyone else, at that time, thought that it was impossible to do, just to be made wrong by DB just doing that was thought impossible.
thistle said:
the rest of your post is just you theorycrafting as a sort-of pretend David Braben. Which is weird
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Maybe you can think it's weird, but it's pretty natural to compare and to wonder if that all amount of time was used to focus on some features you will have them in game because other people with much less resources, much less developers hours developed them in their games... ...no I am not talking about SC...
...On the other side a part of wondering, naturally everyone else could not blame DB for how he has spent his life, just because it's his life and he is free to spend how he likes best...

...But again, do you remember the game launch trailer? Is hard to have no expectations when the game launch trailer is this one:
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6peGu2yG6o

and felling just a bit critical when after more than 6 full years, of development of a AAA game studio you instead get this:

EDIT: what blocked me at the time from being an ED KS backer was the just online, and when I have seen the launch trailer... ...that text telling me that it wasn't actual game footage so I am in ED on/off since the Horizons season...
EDIT again: just to make the concept more clear...
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrLjC47iwlY
 
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