Amalgamate gimbals and fixed beams?

[NeilF]

* Can we please keep discussion civil/pleasant? - It seem these topic often fall into "strong comments" *


I've always had an issue with fixed an gimballed beam weapons. They seem such opposites I cannot help but feel many areas of the game have been compromised to keep them both usable, with many balancing issues caused because of it. Indeed I feel even some of the flight model has had to be "adjusted" to try and find some happy compromise for the two.

And then consider trying to balance something like multiple chaff units being employed by one CMDR while the other has (unfortunately) happened to bring gimbals to the fight (yes I know you can lock gimbals - but it's unfriendly and you're left with a less powerful weapon).

So I was wondering if unifying the two into a single weapon might be an interesting discussion point?


So, consider a gimballed weapon, maybe without quite the same (large) firing arc we have now, with the difference that if you get the target in the "sweet spot", where fixed would hit, more damage is done. Chaff would work just as currently, but the weapon would simply - with nothing to lock onto - become fixed only. So you need to hit in the "sweet spot" or not at all

So if you can get the enemy in your direct line of fire, you'll do more damage (think current fixed). But if you can't, you'll have a small gimbal arc where you'll still hit, but at less damage. eg: Current gimbal damage.

What I personally see the main positives as is combat becomes slightly less paper, scissors, stone. ie: CMDR A comes to the fight with X, but is instantly at a bit of a disdvantage because CMDR B has Y.


Thoughts? By all means disagree, but please do it constructively/nice

 

[sensai25]

You forgot turrets.

I use all of weapon kind, just by pleasure.

Fixed to learn skill.

Gimballed when i want to be effective and have fun.

Turrets when i am lazzy cool stuff too

 

[NeilF]

You forgot turrets.

I use all of weapon kind, just by pleasure.

Fixed to learn skill.

Gimballed when i want to be effective and have fun.

Turrets when i am lazzy cool stuff too

I didn't forget turrets

They're a different weapon IMHO. ie: An anaconda with all gimballed weapons would be a bit of a different animal


Wil my suggestion, the amalgamated weapon would fit your lazy approach, and at the same time reward your skill if you kept them in your "sweet spot".

 

[DaveB]

It's an interesting thought, but on balance I think I'd rather leave the three weapon types as they are. A couple of things leaped out at me considering your idea... In the first place what's the handwavium for why a weapon does more damage at the sweet spot if the same weapon is hitting the same ship? Secondly, your description of the chaff behavior of the hypothetical amalgamated weapon is simply wrong - chaff decoys weapons off target by providing false targets, it doesn't leave the weapon with "nothing to lock onto" so the "gimbal goes crazy" response is probably the correct one.

 

[Ben Ryder]

Crafting?

 

[wstephenson]

Crafting?

You know, I think there's been a misunderstanding here - what a lot of players have been asking for with by their requests for inflatable asteroid bases, commodity and equipment stashes, conquerable surface outposts and whatever is the ability to eke out a miserable and isolated subsistence existence amongst the stars, i.e. crofting.

Thankyouverymuch.

 

[RidingTheFlow]

This suggestion eliminates important decision of "pre-battle loadout choice". Because fixed weapons not only differ in damage, but also on how much power they require - you can create more powerful loadout by declaring "I won't ever need gimbals".

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

I think your problem would be solved if FD just put in a ability to toggle gimbals to fixed, like you can with turrets; they'd still be weaker than fixed but at least you would get target info'.

 

[RidingTheFlow]

I think your problem would be solved if FD just put in a ability to toggle gimbals to fixed, like you can with turrets; they'd still be weaker than fixed but at least you would get target info'.

You can do this already (at least for lasers) by simply unlocking your target.

 

[DaveB]

You can do this already (at least for lasers) by simply unlocking your target.

Nope, that takes away the "target info" part, removes the highlight on your target and on a targeted subsystem. I'd support a "disable gimbal" option that just turns a gimbaled weapon into a slightly weaker fixed one in the same way "forward only" turret mode works. Perhaps FD could adjust the "turret firing mode" option in the right panel to instead be "weapon tracking mode" with the three options being "forward only" (turrets and gimbals act like fixed weapons, with the only difference being their reduced DPS) "Track my target" (gimbals behave as they currently do, firing on trigger press only, turrets fire autonomously on your target if you have a solution, just like current behavior for gimbals and turrets when you have a targeting solution) and "Fire on threat" (gimbals behave as they currently do but turrets behave as they do now in "fire at will" mode) - That would give gimbals the flexibility to shoot through chaff as fixed weapons and you could still keep your targeting info valid, would not take away any of the current turret abilities... Just a thought.

 

[RidingTheFlow]

Giving gimbals extra flexibility will make them more powerful - so they will inevitably have to be nerfed in some other way.
I think current system is fine.

 

[Crimson Kaim]

I want to keep my fixed weapons. Chaffs don't bother me (but I have 3 launchers on my FDL). Everyone who comes with gimb lasers has either an incredible bad aim or a slow ship (Python, Conda) or is simply just lazy to hit NPCs.

The more dmg, the better. I would trade all my shields if I could a weapon that would melt my opponent's shields faster than a shield cell would hit. Additionally, I don't see the need for a unified version of gimb and fix weapons. Just use fixed for PvP, gimb for brainless NPCs farming or big ships. Enemy uses chaff -> deselect. Yes it is unfriendly but that is the tradeoff for having aiming support. Without tardeoffs a game would simply be boring and even the metal challenged would stand a chance against the actual hardcore players and that would be fatal.

 

[NeilF]

This suggestion eliminates important decision of "pre-battle loadout choice". Because fixed weapons not only differ in damage, but also on how much power they require - you can create more powerful loadout by declaring "I won't ever need gimbals".

I agree with that... But in truth are fixed more powerful? Because if they're hitting the target, of course they are... but if you're ten degrees off, you're not, meanwhile gimbals will continue to merrily hit away all day long when you can't get a direct shot... So which is better? And this is what FD are having to balance with the flight model, turn rates, module behaviour etc etc etc...


But I would say, your first sentence is what really worries me about Elite in general - " important decision of pre-battle loadout choice." It's the suggestion that you can turn up to a fight, and ED being so dedicated to paper, scissors, stone, you've unfortunately come to this fight not without enough skill, but something with the wrong "battle loadout". You've brought X, and the opponent Y, fight already over eg: Classic example being you turn up to a PvP fight with gimbals, only to find the opposing CMDR is chaffed to the max.

Personally, I'd like there to be less of this. I'm all for weapons choice, but not paper beats stone outcomes ideally.

That's why I like my proposal. It means good combat is still rewarded, but there's less, "Oh you've brought that stuff? Doh! I've got this stuff, so I'd better simply fly off!"

You can do this already (at least for lasers) by simply unlocking your target.

An individual with gimbals is at a disadvantage against someone with fixed and good chaff supplies surely?

ie: All the time there's a ticker tape parade of chaff being lauched the gimballed player has no target selected, and has significantly weaker weapons... TBH, the gimbal player would be wise to simply fly off surely? ie: He's turned up with X, found Y, bad luck... best to leave.

I Just use fixed for PvP, gimb for brainless NPCs farming or big ships.

So if you happen to be out using gimbals for "farming", and you're interdicted by an CMDR? Should you ask them to wait while you duck back to a station, refit, and come back? Surely it would be better if you didn't have to leave simply because of a module choice made for another reason, and could instead allow your skill to help decide the outcome?