PvP An Investigation Into Frontier's Actions on Combat Logging, Part 2

I've played many MMO games over the years with barely any disconnections (Archeage and ESO were bad in the beginning but improved to almost never losing connection). ED is the first one where I got random disconnections in a crowded instance, leaving warp, arriving on a planet, and it still occurs on busy weekends - so I think they need to get their own house in order before shadow banning customers. Seems like the only way they can tell it's not an adjudication / connection error vs someone combat logging is to watch if someone is in combat and constantly gets disconnected only when they're low on health.

Funny thing is, I play with other Australians and we all have never been disconnected while in a combat situation. Even with our bad internet. There is no excuse for it. Like I said. You should not be playing in a multiplayer game mode if your internet is that bad. And if someone puts in a ticket to Fdev with video evidence of someone logging, well there is no excuse this is not punished with a ban. It's really pretty simple.
 
So let me get this straight. PvP groups cheated for over a year with the Engineering exploit, griefed players with those illegally-obtained mods, and all that happened was that those specific mods were removed. The players who suffered losses from that griefing were never compensated in any way. Yet somehow these same PvP groups expect FD to "punish" players for combat logging when the game remains inherently unstable and actually "proving" that it was intentional rather than a game crash is not actually possible until the game stability issue are addressed.

Sorry, but if you cheat then you lose all credibility in asking FD to "enforce" certain rules for you when yoo couldn't follow the game rules yourself.

I think I have a meme for this.

https://i.imgur.com/VG1PfEo.jpg

The engineers cheating was dealt with. Publicly. Evidently, combat log cheating is being ignored.

Cheating is cheating. it should be dealt with.
 
The fact that Frontier has allowed some truly "exploited" engineer upgrades to remain in the game, despite overwhelming evidence of these being achieved through unadulterated cheating, makes anything regarding combat logging the Mootest point in history.

If I come against a ship that despite having ridiculously overcharged weapons, capable of taking down ANY shield system within a few minutes, is unable to take that ship's shields down AT ALL, I would log out long before I would ever consider attempting a combat engagement with such an OBVIOUS CHEAT!

You got a problem with that?

You're an idiot.

Quote from FDevs response on engineer exploitation,
did they just post it and not take action?
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/358986-Community-Update-Engineer-Exploit-Action-Taken

Hello CMDRs,

We would like to provide the community with an update regarding the recently highlighted Engineers exploit, which allowed high-grade blueprints to be rolled with low-grade materials. This exploit was removed from the game earlier this month.

This morning, during the standard Thursday update, we took action against a number of accounts which had deliberately used this exploit to gain an advantage in their Engineer rolls. The purpose of this was to not only address those players who had regrettably chosen to take advantage of this exploit, but also the significant unfair advantage gained over other users who had chosen not to do so.

While we don’t publicly discuss account specific bans and actions, we wanted to give everyone as much clarity on the broader steps being taken in light of this exploit. As a result, on each identified accounts, the following action has been taken:

- All Engineer modifications which match IDs with a blueprint used in illegitimate rolls have been removed. The module will be retained, but will no longer hold a modification.

- This action has been performed on all owned ships, and all modules held in storage.

- No reimbursement of materials spent on the removed modifications will be granted.

- Users affected by this change will have received a notification and warning through their in-game inbox.

- All modifications have been removed which match the identified blueprint IDs only. This may include modifications of the same blueprint ID earned through standard rolls, but due to the nature of this exploit, we consider this outcome acceptable. Modifications of unrelated blueprints will not be affected.

(For example: A player has two ships with a Grade 5 FSD Increased Range modification and one ship with a Grade 5 FSD Shielded modification. The player used the exploit to gain the FSD Increased Range modification on one ship, but that modification will be removed from both FSD Increased Range ships. The FSD Shielded modification will remain untouched on the third ship.)


The specific part of the Code of Conduct this relates to can be found here:

No cheating or taking advantage of exploits in the game
1. We do not tolerate cheating of any kind in the game, this includes using automated programs or services offered outside of the game to generate an advantage, altering game code or using cheat codes.
2. We also do not tolerate the use of any exploits or the use of any possible bugs in the game to generate player advantage.
3. Any player caught cheating or taking advantage of any exploits or bugs will be penalised and could face a game ban.

We would also like to direct users to our Knowledge Base page regarding action taken against an account if those affected have any questions.

In summary, we would like to remind everyone that while this is not the only instance of an advantage being discovered by manipulating the game client, it is one which resulted in a physical and significant advantage over other CMDRs. We felt it necessary to take this action and will do so again in future if circumstances demand it. As such, we encourage users who believe they have found a client exploit to contact us with as much information as possible, so we can investigate further. Thank you for your patience during this period.

Regards,

Your Frontier Support Team

I really would like to know if the playerbase still would resent to clogging,
if every job, every single loadout had better chances against each other
combat wise, due to removing engineers and hitpoint modules.
 
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The engineers cheating was dealt with. Publicly. Evidently, combat log cheating is being ignored.

Cheating is cheating. it should be dealt with.

It really wasn't "dealt with" other than having the exploit-obtained mods removed.

No real "punishment" or other consequences. No compensation for everyone they trolled and griefed over the entire year. No reason to truly set an "example" that discourages players from taking advantage of an exploit in the future.

FD can't "fix" combat logging because of the way the game is designed. They can't even monitor or detect it properly. It is therefore not possible to "punish" it.

Sorry but cheaters lose all credibility and no one will take them seriously. What you're suggesting is like Lance Armstrong telling players not to use steroids. It's just not going to be taken seriously.
 
The fact that Frontier has allowed some truly "exploited" engineer upgrades to remain in the game, despite overwhelming evidence of these being achieved through unadulterated cheating, makes anything regarding combat logging the Mootest point in history.

If I come against a ship that despite having ridiculously overcharged weapons, capable of taking down ANY shield system within a few minutes, is unable to take that ship's shields down AT ALL, I would log out long before I would ever consider attempting a combat engagement with such an OBVIOUS CHEAT!

You got a problem with that?

You're an idiot.
Wut? You aware that all those "exploited" engineer upgrades was purged from everyone who had those right? Jusy saying... HEH
 
So let me get this straight. PvP groups cheated for over a year with the Engineering exploit, griefed players with those illegally-obtained mods, and all that happened was that those specific mods were removed. The players who suffered losses from that griefing were never compensated in any way. Yet somehow these same PvP groups expect FD to "punish" players for combat logging when the game remains inherently unstable and actually "proving" that it was intentional rather than a game crash is not actually possible until the game stability issue are addressed.

Sorry, but if you cheat then you lose all credibility in asking FD to "enforce" certain rules for you when yoo couldn't follow the game rules yourself.

I think I have a meme for this.

A few people in PvP were involved with that - not even everyone in SDC was involved with that. Don't wrap up the entire PvP community/playstyle in the actions of a few people just to make your silly point.

The players that were involved were punished and their accounts were put on notice. Not even that hint of a wrist-slap happens for habitual combat loggers.

Most of us did our griefing with legit mods and continue to do so to this day. :D
 
The fact that Frontier has allowed some truly "exploited" engineer upgrades to remain in the game, despite overwhelming evidence of these being achieved through unadulterated cheating, makes anything regarding combat logging the Mootest point in history.

If I come against a ship that despite having ridiculously overcharged weapons, capable of taking down ANY shield system within a few minutes, is unable to take that ship's shields down AT ALL, I would log out long before I would ever consider attempting a combat engagement with such an OBVIOUS CHEAT!

You got a problem with that?

You're an idiot.

Post calling people names, and at the same time actively promoting what FDEV have already CONFRIMED to be exploitative and cheating behavior.. mixed with a tinge of "whataboutism" for good measure.
 
It really wasn't "dealt with" other than having the exploit-obtained mods removed.

No real "punishment" or other consequences. Not compensation for everyone they trolled and griefed over the entire year. No reason to truly set an "example" that discourages players from taking advantage of an exploit in the future.

Sorry but cheaters lose all credibility and no one will take them seriously. What you're suggesting is like Lance Armstrong telling players not to use steroids. It's just not going to be taken seriously.

Well FD did take an action by removing the modules,
the least they could to to combat proven clogging is to impound
a rebuy.

Your points can just be reflected and directed towards people
using clogging aswell.
It is a two sided sword,
careful what you ask for.

I for one welcome an investigation in these topics,
however i strongly dislike the abolishment of these discussion
by turning them into a feces slinging fest.
Stay factual and evaluate the test,
constructive criticism is a boon, not a doom.
 
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It really wasn't "dealt with" other than having the exploit-obtained mods removed.

No real "punishment" or other consequences. No compensation for everyone they trolled and griefed over the entire year. No reason to truly set an "example" that discourages players from taking advantage of an exploit in the future.

FD can't "fix" combat logging because of the way the game is designed. They can't even monitor or detect it properly. It is therefore not possible to "punish" it.

Sorry but cheaters lose all credibility and no one will take them seriously. What you're suggesting is like Lance Armstrong telling players not to use steroids. It's just not going to be taken seriously.

No. I'm saying, as someone who has never cheated, that cheating is cheating. It should be dealt with.
 
Wut? You aware that all those "exploited" engineer upgrades was purged from everyone who had those right? Jusy saying... HEH

Nope.

Frontier NEVER OFFICIALLY came out and provided "any" details on what was done and which ships/players (if any) were actually removed from the game.

I have encountered ships that were obviously running just such exploited upgrades long after FDev "supposedly" eliminated the problem. I also know of none of the "well known" participants in these exploits having their account banned or otherwise removed from the community.

Really no idea where you got the idea that this was ever resolved to anyone's satisfaction. ????
 
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Oh man, this post just angered some grandpas! They're going to get so mad when they see the letters "SDC" and an indictment of their own cheating playstyles, alongside an indictment of Fdev for effectively defending it and lying about it. Lmao omg the level of 1984 EEEEEEEE in this forum is about to skyrocket.
 
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Goose4291

Banned
giphy.gif


Justification of cheating while bringing up the resolved engineers exploit issue to try to tarnish the OP with a strawman?

Good work Frontier Forums alumni. Perhaps to conclude we can shunt this off quietly into a corner to die like we do with anything that rocks the status quo boat?
 
Well FD did take an action by removing the modules,
the least they could to to combat proven clogging is to impound
a rebuy.

Your points can just be reflected and directed towards people
using clogging aswell.
It is a two sided sword,
careful what you ask for.

I for one welcome an investigation in these topics,
however i strongly dislike the abolishment of these discussion
by turning them into a feces slinging fest.
Stay factual and evaluate the test,
constructive criticism is a boon, not a doom.

I'm not "asking" for anything. I'm accepting that FD's choice in using a P2P architecture instead of a server-client model has consequences for the gameplay. Combat logging is one of those consequences. It can't be "fixed" at this point. FD has to use other methods to "incentivise" players from using it because they have no way to reliably identify or "punish" it.

SDC doesn't even understand the limitation of the game that they're complaining about.
 
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Nope.

Frontier NEVER OFFICIALLY came out and provided "any" details on what was done and which ships/players (if any) were actually removed from the game.

I have encountered ships that were obviously running just such exploited upgrades long after FDev "supposedly" eliminated the problem. I also know of none of the "well known" participants in these exploits having their account banned or otherwise removed from the community.

Why should Frontier do that in the first place?
They would harm privacy and openly name and shame the person,
it is understandable that these actions were not made publicly.

Therefore i welcome the test here,
putting oneself in the firing line to prove
or disprove a course of action.

------------------------------------
General:
As i can see the thread is young
but we already have reached a very
kindergarden attitude again.
Please dear mods do not close the thread,
but do your job and get people into the line of discussion
that is fruitful and beneficial.
 
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Oh man, this post just angered some grandpas! They're going to get so mad when they see the letters "SDC" and an indictment of their own cheating playstyles, alongside an indictment of Fdev for effectively defending it and lying about it. Lmao omg the level of 1984 EEEEEEEE in this forum is about to skyrocket.


I just want to see a proper experiment...and results. So now, everyone knows they can pull the plug once per month and not have to worry about getting caught! They need to up the ante with more accounts until they reach a level where they are guaranteed to get banned...and then, please publish that number!
 
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Powderpanic

Banned
So let me get this straight. PvP groups cheated for over a year with the Engineering exploit, griefed players with those illegally-obtained mods, and all that happened was that those specific mods were removed. The players who suffered losses from that griefing were never compensated in any way. Yet somehow these same PvP groups expect FD to "punish" players for combat logging when the game remains inherently unstable and actually "proving" that it was intentional rather than a game crash is not actually possible until the game stability issue are addressed.

Sorry, but if you cheat then you lose all credibility in asking FD to "enforce" certain rules for you when you couldn't follow the game rules yourself.

I think I have a meme for this.

https://i.imgur.com/VG1PfEo.jpg

Yes... Bet ED is so full of exploits its hard to know which one they will actually start to care about and when.

The engineer issue was reported and ignored.. So many figured.. hey, its just like all the others ones and its fair game

If you have EVER stacked missions by rolling modes, please leave your ivory tower and close the door on the way out.

Using the above rolling and exploit that was 17 Draconis, I made over 5 billion by watching netflix and dumbfiring at skimmers..

But.. I still have my money because... well... Thats ED for you
 
Can't wait for white knights to defend cheating again.

The irony of this post coming from an SDC member is gold, pure gold!

I do have a question though. I’m admittedly not very up to snuff on PvP or CL’ing as I’m a peaceful Mobius player, but couldn’t the PvP players just block people confirmed as combat loggers so that they never come across them in Open again? Peaceful players block griefers and that seems to do a decent job of it, wouldn’t the same tactic in reverse do a decent job of ensuring that player killers would never again cross paths with the cheaters?
 
https://media.giphy.com/media/YPIrsRqqO7oB2/giphy.gif

Justification of cheating while bringing up the resolved engineers exploit issue to try to tarnish the OP with a strawman?

Good work Frontier Forums alumni. Perhaps to conclude we can shunt this off quietly into a corner to die like we do with anything that rocks the status quo boat?

If this thread was a study on human behaviour,
we would see true to the old saying:
"How a person reacts and writes,
paints a clear image of himself."
 
Oh man, this post just angered some grandpas! They're going to get so mad when they see the letters "SDC" and an indictment of their own cheating playstyles, alongside an indictment of Fdev for effectively defending it and lying about it. Lmao omg the level of 1984 EEEEEEEE in this forum is about to skyrocket.

The "Tumble Weeds" you see in your typical OPEN session is actually the community's response to PvP in Elite Dangerous. Most prefer not to bother even going there considering it's tarnished reputation for "continuing" to be an unaddressed haven for cheaters.

This is why SOLO and Private Groups are far more popular.
 
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