PvP An Investigation Into Frontier's Actions on Combat Logging, Part 2

Julio Montega

Julio Montega
jasonbarron said:
They were put out to even re-open this thread after closing it in the first place; I wouldn't hold my breath on it getting moved back to DD.
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Then that will be just fodder for PR cannons to shoot.
Their choice.
A message is sent on different levels.
Not sending one, is a message in itself.
 

Martian Successor

Martian Successor
Devari said:
The game is buggy and crashes frequently. Whether you experience those specific bugs or not is irrelevant. You are a sample size of one. There are many threads and posts on these forums, many bug reports and all sorts of other evidence of these bugs, crashes and D/Cs existing for many players.

If you think that someone's internet "connection" explains game bugs like the ones that are frequently reported on these forums then I really don't know what else to say.
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I don't experience even half as many crashes as you imply Devari and I frequently play in a wing with friends. We have done almost everything in the game as a group of wings in the same instance: SRV racing, canyon racing, Combat zone/Haz Res farming, PvP training, PvP against other wings, trading, exploring, Thargoid hunting, CG patrolling, etc. The most annoying and hindering issues we come up against is getting everybody into the same instance and the rather frequent inordinantly long wait times where the game sticks you into the "blue tunnel" transition screen between supercruise and normal space. The blue tunnel issues is at its highest frequency when doing PvP fights because we're constantly chasing opponents through supercruise into normal space and vice versa (lot of switching in between the two).

It is however actually quite rare for any of us to get disconnected and dropped to the main menu or have to task kill out of the game because it froze. Those things do happen occassionaly but not at all frequently unless the game itself is having issues. I find that on Sundays the game usually has these more frequent connection issues. I wing up with up to around 35 or so different people from my player group (very rarely at the same time) and some of them are from as far out as Austrailia (I'm in Europe). Now how do you explain that none of us experience as many disconnections as you while stressing the game's P2P to its limits?

The only times we have successfully managed to exponentially increase the rate of disconnections from the game is when we fill up an instance with more than 4-5 wings, that's upwards of 16-20 players. At that point a few of us start experiencing disconnections and crashes. Others can remain connected the whole time for some reason, sometimes I've been in the lucky group that doesn't get crashed out at all.

So there you go Devari, a sample size of about 30 plus players that I can personally vouch for because I regularly play with them. Now I'm not saying this makes all those bug and crash reports wrong, but what I am saying is that you have no possible way of claiming with any degree of accuracy that the majority of players experience your level of frequent connection problems with this game.
 
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Maka Gucci

Maka Gucci
Stigbob said:
If I was flying my corvette on either a bad connection day, or after any of FDEV's patches (which always break connectivity) that could cost me a hundred million credits an hour even though I never clog.
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Just play in Solo when your connection is bad. At max it would cost you one rebuy, and the severs going down show a bunch of messages leading up to the time telling you to find somewhere safe to wait. Even with those they'll still refund people who don't and manage to lose their ship in some related way.

Hardly as much of a problem as combat logging is.
 

Han_Zen

Han_Zen
Maka Gucci said:
Just play in Solo when your connection is bad. At max it would cost you one rebuy, and the severs going down show a bunch of messages leading up to the time telling you to find somewhere safe to wait. Even with those they'll still refund people who don't and manage to lose their ship in some related way.

Hardly as much of a problem as combat logging is.
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For 9 of 10 ED players CL isn't a game play problem. It's annoying that player cheat, but few of us are affected much by it.

CL is a big problem for a minority of players. It borders on game breaking, for some. It needs to be addressed, but the process can't afford any collateral damage. That would lead to PR disaster and to more sympathy for cloggers.

By all means put players in Solo if their connection is bad at startup, but leave it at that.
 

XYZ

XYZ
Julio Montega said:
I messaged the mods to move this thread back into the main discussion forum,
as this stuff is not PvP only.
Let's see what the result is.
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Dont hold your breath on it. This thread wasnt move here by accident. ;)
Anyway take some rep. for good will.
 
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GJ51

GJ51
Martian Successor said:
I don't experience even half as many crashes as you imply Devari and I frequently play in a wing with friends. We have done almost everything in the game as a group of wings in the same instance: SRV racing, canyon racing, Combat zone/Haz Res farming, PvP training, PvP against other wings, Canyon racing, trading, exploring, Thargoid hunting, CG patrolling, etc. The most annoying and hindering issues we come up against is getting everybody into the same instance and the rather frequent inordinantly long wait times where the game sticks you into the "blue tunnel" transition screen between supercruise and normal space. The blue tunnel issues is at its highest frequency when doing PvP fights because we're constantly chasing opponents through supercruise into normal space and vice versa (lot of switching in between the two)

It is however actually quite rare for any of us to get disconnected and dropped to the main menu or have to task kill out of the game becayse it froze. Those things do happen occassionaly but not at all frequently unless the game itself is having issues. I find that on Sundays the game usually has these more frequent connection issues. I wing up with up to around 35 or so different people from my player group (very rarely at the same time) and some of them are from as far out as Austrailia (I'm in Europe). Now how do you explain that none of us experience as many disconnections as you while stressing the game's P2P to its limits?

The only times we have successfully managed to exponentially increase the rate of disconnections from the game is when we fill up an instance with more than 4-5 wings, that's upwards of 16-20 players. At that point a few of us start experiencing disconnections and crashes. Others can remain connected the whole time for some reason, sometimes I've been in the lucky group that doesn't get crashed out at all.

So there you go Devari, a sample size of about 30 plus players that I can personally vouch for because I regularly play with them. Now I'm not saying this makes all those bug and crash reports wrong, but what I am saying is that you have no possible way of claiming with any degree of accuracy that the majority of players experience your level of frequent connection problems with this game.
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I have to agree here and conclude that many players who are having frequent disconnections are probably experiencing those issues do to problems at their end.

I'm not a group player engaging in MC or wings - I don't play well with others, and don't care to - however, I do play in Open 99% of the time and almost never have connection or CTD issues. They do occasionally happen, but are very rare.

I attribute most of that stability due to the fact that my desktop is very stable and well maintained. I frequently check error logs and device manager to be sure there are no unaddressed issues with my PC. In addition, I have a fiber optic gigabit internet connection that is solid as a rock with almost no latency and tests over 700Mbps in both directions.

I recently had the opportunity to verify a frequently stated observation when I switched to the gigabit connection. Initially, I couldn't get the bandwidth test results I was expecting. We tried every troubleshooting technique we could think of including tweaking the NIC parameters for gigabit. I then looked at what was the motherboard NIC mfgr. Ooops, Realtek. I had an Intel dual port PCIe board laying around and decided to give it a try.

The difference was astounding. Ookla banwidth testing was no longer sporadic bouncing but the needle just pegged to the right and stayed there.

Now, I'm no longer testing the speed of my PC, but I'm actually testing the capabilities of the various test sites at the other end. It's dramatic.

So, yeah - ED has it's occasional issues. Dropping from SC at a popular station in Open can take a while. But on average, if you have things well sorted on your end you will not be having major problems. I frequently go weeks at a time without a disconnect or CTD.

No need to blame FD for everything. Look under the hood once in a while. When your car runs out of gas, it's not the highway's fault.
 
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Stigbob

Stigbob
Maka Gucci said:
Just play in Solo when your connection is bad. At max it would cost you one rebuy, and the severs going down show a bunch of messages leading up to the time telling you to find somewhere safe to wait. Even with those they'll still refund people who don't and manage to lose their ship in some related way.

Hardly as much of a problem as combat logging is.
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I don't clog and I don't care when people clog on me, I find it funny. The only reason I ever pay attention to this stuff is because I have duff internet and can offer a factual account of how common disconnects are for when these threads inevitably go "automatic rebuy on disconnect".

When it plays up I do go solo, but it has to boot me a few times for me to know it's playing up.

A poor connection is much worse than the occasional clogger, but it's a small price to pay for living where I do.
 

Red Anders

Red Anders
Asp Explorer said:
The thing with Elite - is that internet speed doesn't really matter.

You can have a 128Kbps connection, a 1Mbps connection, a 10Gbps connection - they are all functionally the same.

You only need to maintain a minimal connection to three of FD's servers, and normally they are very forgiving. Linerates of 30Kbps will manage it - what you would get from an old dial-up modem from the 90's.

Now - where that all goes pear-shaped is of course where other players are involved. Traffic increases by n+n*n-(1) and with dozens of players in an instance, that can overwhelm poor connections very quickly.
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Just on that in case anybody thinks your 30kbps is a joke, I'm under a fair use policy with my ISP and if I take the mickey with it, my bandwidth gets capped at 128kbps (not a typo!) until I'm back below the averaging limits. Thankfully it only happens once in a blue moon, I think I had one day of it in 2017.

Obviously we've moved on so far from the days of 56k modems that a 128kbps connection won't even browse many web pages efficiently these days; as an example it took about two minutes just to fully log in to hotmail last time I was under the cap. It's effectively useless as an internet connection, it's basically there just so they can say they haven't completely disabled it.

I can play ED in solo mode just fine with that capped connection, you barely notice the difference.

Obviously open would be a somewhat different proposition :D
 

nathdixon92

nathdixon92
Martian Successor said:
How is it a duplicate of this thread? You posted it 2 whole hours before someone posted the video link in here. They're really struggling for fake reasons to remove threads from the front page.
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No idea. Clearly they don't want it to be discussed in the Dangerous Discussion section for whatever reason.
 
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