An investigation into Frontier's actions on Combat Logging

I suspect that its actually a total non-issue to any players who are not into PvP.

But it is to the devs (or it should be... this thread is a bit of proof otherwise)

If you can just log against any and all forms of danger and log back in with a clean slate, it removes the risk from anything you do in the game. This isn't good a developer's perspective (same caveat). It's a gigantic loophole in the game.

Just see the threads where people warn about neutron stars and such, how even logging doesn't help. Ideally logging would never even be talked about in this context, people would just accept their deaths (this being a bug notwithstanding).
 
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A few points: Youtube is picky about what counts as a view. Watching only part of a video, downloading a video, or even watching a full video with certain security plugins can all prevent a hit being recorded as a view.

I find it very hard to believe that in every single instance they tried, not one single video recorded one single hit.

Frontier may track alternate accounts. In which case the second part of your "investigation" would have been easily identified.

Given the utter lack of responses to other antisocial behavior that is known exploitable (including RMT groups), I doubt their tooling is that good. All evidence we have points to Elite being a very exploitable game with backend processes that are not that mature.

It was never reasonable to expect people to be punished for a single instance of logging.

It is, however, reasonable to expect evidence to be examined, or at the very least the CMDRs in question to receiving a tap on the shoulder saying "cut it out".

Combat logging may be going deliberately unaddressed until ingame mechanics for crime and punishment and curtailing antisocial behaviour are developed. Elite is still under development, after all.

Then they could come out and say that, rather than this absurd radio silence. It would placate most people concerned about the issue, rather than this radio silence. Radio silence can only mean that Frontier thinks we won't like the answer.

Frontier may treat reports made by members of a well known griefing group as having an unusually high likelihood of being illegitimate or self-serving. Which appears to have been a reasonable assumption.

Fair, but I doubt customer support has a sticky note with a list of griefers stuck to their monitors.

I will be interested to see any official response outlining Frontier's stance on abuse of the ability to report players and/or attempting to steer game development through threats of widespread libel against the developers.

It ain't libel if it's true.
 
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You want to know something hilarious? I didn't even know you could combat log untill I read about it here....(on this forum I mean)
 
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There are so many things wrong with OP I don't even know where to start.

First, you had the right idea, but you didn't give it enough time. You waited a week for views. For something like this, I would've tested it over six months, at least.
You let the cat out of the bag to early, and now FDev could probably hide behind the excuse of being slow. Which isn't unreasonable considering the time between major releases and stuff....
Additionally, as others have brought up in the thread and on reddit, some companies do bans in waves. Maybe Frontier is using this approach.
You are trying to catch FDev with their hand in the cookie jar and merely caught them looking at the cookie jar.

Second, Frontiers statement could have been true at the time. As far as I know, they haven't made any resent statement about what specific action they are taking against combat logging. The banning approach is way to impractical and harsh. I'm not surprised at all that they abandoned it. So you can't really accuse them of lying.

Third, this is entirely from a gameplay POV, there is no effective in game defense for freighters and explorers against legitimate-play-style'ers(they don't like to be called gankers greifers or psychos), especially now with engineer mods. Some players feel forced to combat log. Frontier has to also figure out why people combat log in the first place and make attempts to absolve that issue.

Fourth and most important, it was just an all around jerk move to test Frontier Support without their knowing like this. OP seems entirely focused on just humiliating Frontier and creating an atmosphere of discontent and distrust between the community and the devs. It is posts like these that caused FDev to be as quiet as they are. No more Dev updates no more peek of the week. It is posts like these that will truly kill ED.
 
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A few points:
  • Youtube is picky about what counts as a view. Watching only part of a video, downloading a video, or even watching a full video with certain security plugins can all prevent a hit being recorded as a view.
  • Frontier may track alternate accounts. In which case the second part of your "investigation" would have been easily identified.
  • It was never reasonable to expect people to be punished for a single instance of logging.
  • Combat logging may be going deliberately unaddressed until ingame mechanics for crime and punishment and curtailing antisocial behaviour are developed. Elite is still under development, after all.
  • Frontier may treat reports made by members of a well known griefing group as having an unusually high likelihood of being illegitimate or self-serving. Which appears to have been a reasonable assumption.
I will be interested to see any official response outlining Frontier's stance on abuse of the ability to report players and/or attempting to steer game development through threats of widespread libel against the developers.
See I know nothing about these things.

Which is why this evidence should have been presented to FD. Give them a chance to respond. If the response would have been unsatisfactory, then go to the community.

I hear SDC assisted FD with testdriving heat meta mechanics so would have been easy with those connections.

Instead .... we got this soon to be vitriolic mega thread solving zippo. Except some of my timewasting desires.
 
I had been surprised if FD really took Action against Combat Loggers. FD is great in returning you assets you lost due to bugs but they hardly do punish ppl. They like to announce that they will do but I don't think they ever did in the past. PPL exploited the hell out of the game back then and it was said it will be punished often enough but that is not what they ever did and it is not to expect that they will ever do. I think they like programming more than playing Police and I am fine with that since for me Elite is no PvP MMO at all. I know PvP is everything for you but I think you are playing a bit the wrong game is this is your Focus and prefered game.
However I agree with you that they would be better off if they were really honest to the community.
Anyway I am more surprised that you are surprised. Are you a newer Elite Player?
 
Thanks for taking the time do this and post this. I've had multiple cmdrs log on me, including a wing of 2 that logged 3-4 times in a span of 10 minutes and that was consensual PVP, they even started the fight. The funny ones are the cmdrs who "lose" connection when I point my ship at them. It needs to stop and I certainly hope frontier changes how they handle these.
 
Question for the 'are you ready to accept that this isn't intended to have PVP in the game' crowd...

Why isn't it? Because a developer is not enforcing its own rules is, in your view, tacit support for your view?
 
Question for the 'are you ready to accept that this isn't intended to have PVP in the game' crowd...

Why isn't it? Because a developer is not enforcing its own rules is, in your view, tacit support for your view?

No, but because they said so when the game was funded and developed. PvP was never meant to be an integral part of the game.
 
Question for the 'are you ready to accept that this isn't intended to have PVP in the game' crowd...
Not geared towards PvP and not intended to have PvP are two different things.

Why isn't it? Because a developer is not enforcing its own rules is, in your view, tacit support for your view?
It's not geared towards PvP by design.

edit: Or what he said ^
 
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I'm getting the impression that some people here will make every excuse for FD, so that they can continue to bury their head in the sand.

For the record - I do not like SDC. But I do not like being lied to more. Fair enough if the issue doesn't affect a person or its not a priority. But blind faith...FD must be so happy they have so many zealots!
 
''Aside from being classed as exploiting by Frontier themselves, combat logging is bad for the game (and gameplay experience) of both the exploiter and the victim. Not only does logging deprive both players of meaningful interaction in game that is vastly empty and void of a human element, but it stifles the rare emergent experiences that make the game more than a sterile grind.''

Unbelievable, quite unbelievable.
 
Great post. Good effort to demonstrate what the players tacitly already knew. Hopefully this post expedites FDEV actions/fixes required to discourage combat logging.
 
Question for the 'are you ready to accept that this isn't intended to have PVP in the game' crowd...

Why isn't it? Because a developer is not enforcing its own rules is, in your view, tacit support for your view?

No, but because they said so when the game was funded and developed. PvP was never meant to be an integral part of the game.

I'll add that the way the game behaves is de facto proof that any multiplayer is secondary to the rest of the game.
 
"breaking the ToS is bad"

"butthe devs won't enforce the ToS"

"yeah well PVP is bad"

like pottery
 
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Fdev support PVP and the game has open play with community goals designed to be both fought for, and against. (Pretty dumb in solo or group no?)

The game is intended to be PVP... in that players interact and can fight with players.

You are choosing not to. Do not insist that others do not.

What angers me more than anything, is any PVP engaging player is listed as a 'ganker' and discredited, ridiculed and insulted on these forums... Any play style that is not 'yours' is apparently automatically wrong.

If anything, the 'anti pvp' crowd are the ones hobbling and killing this community like a venom. Just they way they are now defending and victimsplaining combat logging. "Oh well you're asking for it."

Like any other infraction of the rules, it is wrong. It is listed as something Fdev will punish. All we ask, is that their own rules are enforced.

Well, i am tired of this. The PvP-Group is nothing more than maybe 15 % of all players that are playing Elite, they are by far the loudest crowd here and they are whining 24/7 because they cant shoot down a trader ship with their A-Engineered 5000 mj-shield-cutter in an so called "Open Play" which is de facto not more than one of hundred instances in the same area with a maximum of 25 playerships, what is not even a 25th of the players that are participating in a CG.

Is anyone able to understand the REAL problem here? Lets talk about PVP when we are 100% certain that Open is really OPEN, and not "just another instance". And stop bothering FD with all that stuff, give them some time to work at the right stuff, and not at something that the minority wants. Maybe they will be able to change something with the servers or the whole architecture - then we can talk, not before. Its a senseless waste of energy.
 
Not geared towards PvP and not intended to have PvP are two different things.


It's not geared towards PvP by design.

edit: Or what he said ^

When the game was funded and initially released, it was meant to be Elite... with new tech... Which they achieved perfectly... beyond expectations. Agreed? However, like many things it has evolved... it has developed a following and communities have grown.

Originally, when the telephone was invented, nobody expected cameras to be on phones... do we ban them because they were not originally intended? Phones and cameras were meant to be separate! If I wanted to be insanely tenuous with my links... One could compare it to fundamentalist Christians and views on homosexuality...

Some Elite players are as fundamentalist about PVE vs PVP...

'PVP wasn't intended, its unnatural! The game was meant to be Player vs environment!!! players who fight players are twisted sick individuals who are not normal!!!' That narative should sound disturbingly familiar.

Because something wasn't intended, doesn't mean it shouldn't be supported as equally important.

The second this game launched with multiplayer, and the ability for another commander to damage your ship with their weapons, PVP was supported and intended.

The rules exist. This entire topic is about enforcing rules that exist NOW... not changing anything.
 
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