An investigation into Frontier's actions on Combat Logging

[xdeath]

Err, no. Did you catch the recent question and answer session with Braben a month ago on 2.2 day? What did he say? So have things changed? Nope.

Don't recall combat logging being brought up in stream. Either way, I don't see anything recent in the links in Original Post so....

It's interesting how you say 'probably'. You see, FDEV have a problem banning anyone. They don't like talking about it because they don't like publicising the problem. The problem appears to be British law having priority over the EULA. Banning, even shadow banning for combat logging could well be in breach of law. Now they did ban/limit some for hacking the game.

Well, if that is the case... then why aren't you showing some measure of understanding and sympathy.

My main problem is that whoever did this "research" didn't bring this up in private with FDev. Instead they shared it for all the community to see. The words and phrasing suggest that the intent was not to solve the issue, but to sow distrust and discontent in the community.
The community itself was starting to take on a more positive outlook on the future of the game. Ideas were being suggested(they always are, but many were starting to gain traction), discussion was being made.
Now, everyone is going to be worked about this "lying" issue.
You are one such example of this. I don't hold it against you.

Please refrain from shouty caps, Captain Basch, this is not 50 Shades

+1 Rep for calling me Captain Basch. That's right.

 

[Sole Hunter]

I hope you finally understand that this game is not a PvP-Game by design.

You are missing the point, it's not only about PVP. THEY don't even enforce their own TOS and review tickets properly, it's ridiculous. Whoever is in charge of this should be fired on the spot.

 

[bitstorm]

You are missing the point, it's not only about PVP. THEY don't even enforce their own TOS and review tickets properly, it's ridiculous. Whoever is in charge of this should be fired on the spot.

I thought you'd got a refund and left the game for "moral/ethical reasons"?

 

[Mikey2305]

206 posts in 4 hours? Have i missed something?
Erm no, it seems not...

 

[xdeath]

Well that escalated quickly.

Further goes to prove my point that this "research" is nothing more than an attempt to sow distrust and discontent.
It's malicious, plain and simple, and seeks to make others that way.

They don't want combat logging to stop. They want to cause trouble in the community.

 

[Toumal]

I see this thread is going well.

 

[Pyrotiger]

Don't recall combat logging being brought up in stream. Either way, I don't see anything recent in the links in Original Post so....


Well, if that is the case... then why aren't you showing some measure of understanding and sympathy.

My main problem is that whoever did this "research" didn't bring this up in private with FDev. Instead they shared it for all the community to see. The words and phrasing suggest that the intent was not to solve the issue, but to sow distrust and discontent in the community.
The community itself was starting to take on a more positive outlook on the future of the game. Ideas were being suggested(they always are, but many were starting to gain traction), discussion was being made.
Now, everyone is going to be worked about this "lying" issue.
You are one such example of this. I don't hold it against you.



+1 Rep for calling me Captain Basch. That's right.

Combat logging was discussed. Yes OP doesn't link it. But you said I was worked up about something from 2 years ago. I was not.

I believe that I have shown previously a measure of understanding and sympathy. What I am not prepared to do is take it to the level of Emperors New Clothes. A lie is a lie is a lie.

I take your point about discrediting the game. However, I'm not sure that your private method would be better. It would be ignored. Community pressure is a good way to get results (and publicity, which is what the Soggy Donut Creche seem to crave). Still, the delivery is secondary to the probable fact.

I'm not bothered what you hold against me! DON'T LISTEN TO ONDORE'S LIES!

Since you're a FF fan, let's compare. FF online was released and it was a turkey. They responded and rebuilt it. Apparently its now far better. FD should consider doing likewise. As Basch would say before KO, FD "You're killing us"

 

[Killerpenguin5]

yet we also have heard reports about players who logged and received a ban.

you have proven, that there are people that logged and were reported who weren't banned to solo.

you have not proven, that all people who log are not infracted.
you could not provide any percentage of people to not receive an infraction relative to people who do.

so i understand your anger, but that was not useful. (but rant away if you want to)

Reports, that lack any proof behind them. And again, This could be the same F2P "modified" TOS that applies only to commanders who barely spend a dime.

And currently their populations are so low that banning the probable 1000 people who have regularly combat logged will cost them a lot of money. So instead of banning them from open and from being able to affect PP or BGS. They're just gonna soak in the pitiful amounts of cash they can. Because they've shown they don't care for the average (not super devoted so much so to either completely defend all actions regardless of how wrong or stupid they were, or super devoted to continue playing while this happens.) player who might be interested in their game. Which shows with how few people buy the game outside of sales. Because the game isn't even worth the 30 bucks for the base and 30 for expansion. What are you buying with that? About 4 or 5 sets of mechanics. And a bunch of broken systems that have absolutely no meaning to the average player, the RNGesus equivalent of Zamasu.(if you get that reference good on you) And a lead designer with a HISTORY of developing terrible games. like Haze for the PS3. They have a ton of work to do if they want their studio to be more than just a haven for dumb friends who couldn't get a job at a studio that produces far better gameplay mechanics.

The only explanation for why they won't ban those users is monetarily motivated. They are a small studio who realized how stupidly devoted a section of their player base is, and a large portion of those users also Break the TOS quite often. What happens if you ban all the users who vehemently defend you against any and all screw ups and poor design decisions? Welp your last bastion of positivity turns into a true reflection of your work, and you just cost yourself a lot of money that is essential to regular operations of your studio.

I will admit the new combat balance changes look promising. But those are easy to do in comparison to even trying to fix the mission system that they agree is terrible.

If they can produce quality game changing mechanics next patch I.E 2.3 they may be able to attract enough new players that they could feasibly start banning the S%!^ters that plague their product. But until then... The game is downhill from here if they don't make up their mind about what they want their game to be.

 

[KWAiRT]

Combat logging is not just restricted to Open and PvP either. I'm really surprised it hasn't been addressed. Wait no I'm not...

 

[Kaocraft]

Combat Logging confirmed to be a supported and legit game mechanic, despite Dev's protestations otherwise.

 

[Sole Hunter]

Reports, that lack any proof behind them. And again, This could be the same F2P "modified" TOS that applies only to commanders who barely spend a dime.

And currently their populations are so that banning the probable 1000 people who have regularly combat logged will cost them a lot of money. So instead of banning them from open and from being able to affect PP or BGS. They're just gonna soak in the pitiful amounts of cash they can. Because they've shown they don't care for the average (not super devoted so much so to either completely defend all actions regardless of how wrong or stupid they were, or super devoted to continue playing while this happens.) player who might be interested in their game. Which shows with how few people buy the game outside of sales. Because the game isn't even worth the 30 bucks for the base and 30 for expansion. What are you buying with that? About 4 or 5 sets of mechanics. And a bunch of broken systems that have absolutely no meaning to the average player, the RNGesus equivalent of Zamasu.(if you get that reference good on you) And a lead designer with a HISTORY of developing games. like Haze for the PS3. They have a ton of work to do if they want their studio to be more than just a haven for dumb friends who couldn't get a job at a studio that produces far better gameplay mechanics.

The only explanation for why they won't ban those users is monetarily motivated. They are a small studio who realized how stupidly devoted a section of their player base is, and a large portion of those users also Break the TOS quite often. What happens if you ban all the users who vehemently defend you against any and all screw ups and poor design decisions? Welp your last bastion of positivity turns into a true reflection of your work.

I will admit the new combat balance changes look promising. But those are easy to do in comparison to even trying to fix the mission system that they agree is terrible.

If they can produce quality game changing mechanics next patch I.E 2.3 they may be able to attract enough new players that they could feasibly start banning the ters that plague their product. But until then... The game is downhill from here if they don't make up their mind about what they want their game to be.

Don't forget he worked on star wars for kinect.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

206 posts in 4 hours? Have i missed something?
Erm no, it seems not...

No, you can just jump in and start posting.

Just don't mention popcorn.

 

[Terrana_Conscorn]

Wow, some people just can't seem to handle it when others question their opinion, let along disagree with them.

There's questioning an opinion, and then there's disregarding it. You would rather disregard our views than actually discuss them.

Oh, and in response to my post, if the best you can manage is to critique my spelling in a quickly typed respose with a keyboard off to my side because i'm flying, congrats pedant, you win the internet.

 

[Karunamon]

This could discredit the WHOLE company I mean look at NO MAN SKY, most of the STONE that is over it is because his CEO is crapping in the face of their consumers...I know Elite is much better than NMS... but in the end this is UNACCEPTABLE, if they come up and say, WE CANT SOLVE THIS YET, or WE ARE DEVELOPING something....

Random capitalization aside... yeah, this ^

Just.. yknow.. have someone with an orange border put their fingers on the keyboard and tell us where we stand. People are going to complain no matter what is said, but I think it's a given that knowing is better than not knowing.

Look at it this way. If Frontier comes out and says the OP is full of it, SDC BTFO. This always makes me smile.

If Frontier comes out and admits it, apologizes, and gives a plausible explanation, controversy's over.

If Frontier ignores it and says nothing, this is going to (rightfully) blow up like crazy.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

PS
ZIGGY!

Ha!

 

[dynamicbob]

Combat Logging confirmed to be a supported and legit game mechanic, despite Dev's protestations otherwise.

if it is the reality of the situation then so be it, they probably just lack the man or willpower to enforce it.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Random capitalization aside... yeah, this ^

Just.. yknow.. have someone with an orange border put their fingers on the keyboard and tell us where we stand. People are going to complain no matter what is said, but I think it's a given that knowing is better than not knowing.

Look at it this way. If Frontier comes out and says the OP is full of it, SDC BTFO. This always makes me smile.

If Frontier comes out and admits it, apologizes, and gives a plausible explanation, controversy's over.

If Frontier ignores it and says nothing, this is going to (rightfully) blow up like crazy.

It could have worked if the OP had first given FD a chance to respond to the investigation.

It could have worked if the OP hadn't gone "or else".

FD would be right not to respond to this in my opinion. Not because of the content, but because of the delivery method.

 

[Knot2clever]

Reports, that lack any proof behind them. And again, This could be the same F2P "modified" TOS that applies only to commanders who barely spend a dime.

And currently their populations are so low that banning the probable 1000 people who have regularly combat logged will cost them a lot of money. So instead of banning them from open and from being able to affect PP or BGS. They're just gonna soak in the pitiful amounts of cash they can. Because they've shown they don't care for the average (not super devoted so much so to either completely defend all actions regardless of how wrong or stupid they were, or super devoted to continue playing while this happens.) player who might be interested in their game. Which shows with how few people buy the game outside of sales. Because the game isn't even worth the 30 bucks for the base and 30 for expansion. What are you buying with that? About 4 or 5 sets of mechanics. And a bunch of broken systems that have absolutely no meaning to the average player, the RNGesus equivalent of Zamasu.(if you get that reference good on you) And a lead designer with a HISTORY of developing terrible games. like Haze for the PS3. They have a ton of work to do if they want their studio to be more than just a haven for dumb friends who couldn't get a job at a studio that produces far better gameplay mechanics.

The only explanation for why they won't ban those users is monetarily motivated. They are a small studio who realized how stupidly devoted a section of their player base is, and a large portion of those users also Break the TOS quite often. What happens if you ban all the users who vehemently defend you against any and all screw ups and poor design decisions? Welp your last bastion of positivity turns into a true reflection of your work, and you just cost yourself a lot of money that is essential to regular operations of your studio.

I will admit the new combat balance changes look promising. But those are easy to do in comparison to even trying to fix the mission system that they agree is terrible.

If they can produce quality game changing mechanics next patch I.E 2.3 they may be able to attract enough new players that they could feasibly start banning the S%!^ters that plague their product. But until then... The game is downhill from here if they don't make up their mind about what they want their game to be.

In deference to Terrana_Conscorn, another well written piece of rubbish.

@Terrana_Conscorn perhaps you should stop thinking in terms of winning and loosing, your a winner to me.

 

[KWAiRT]

Like I said just make it so all chars created in Open live and die there. This way bans won't be needed and they can remove offending CMDRS without banning their accounts. Technically it's hard to ban someone for closing an application as laughable as that sounds. Fdev can however delete player files without banning people. This would at least help open mode PvP assuming fdev even cares. I don't play open myself and wow I would never play a competitive pvp game with peer to peer networking and no region locks lol. The lag in open is bad enough when not in PvP. Hell just a single bad peer can kill performance and latency/update rate. Combat logging does need to be addressed though and in all modes.

To actually try and enforce policy costs productivity and money so even if it was designed right in the first place and there were no legal hurdles it still requires support to work. So why not just fix it once and for all then everyone wins... I can understand why people care or don't care but in the long run an issue like this does effect everyone one way or another. I guess the real question at this point in time is... Can it be fixed with the current iteration of the game and mechanics that it uses to instance and or connect peers? I assume if it was fixable they would have done it by now. So is it really a technical limitation or is FDEV being lazy on this issue?

 

[Wicz]

We don’t want to do half-baked solutions.

I believe that in itself to be a lie of sorts.

They have form.