An open email to FDEV from a hardened PVP Veteran...

[AshesOfHegemony]

To the the creators of Elite,
I started the Elite: Dangerous PVP Subreddit in hopes that PVP would get some more love within the Elite universe. I've spent many long hours leading squadrons(yes, squadrons, not just wings) into PVP this past year. We've played with and against some of the best fighters this game has to offer. I feel that i have great insight into the flight mechanics and my experiences represent a large subset of mentalities within this game.


Our group Reign of Annihilation has logged thousands of player kills. We've done weekly training sessions to improve the piloting skills of our group. We are largely focused upon improving "fleet combat" as we call it within the Elite universe. We often can be seen supporting and assisting the player group The Inquisition(TIIQ), both in-game and on teamspeak.


When we finally do engage in PVP, we are often labeled as "griefers" and shunned by a large majority of players simply because they are either incapable of giving us a decent challenge, are either too afraid to engage us, or are unwilling to take up a banner to organize against us. This makes myself and many other PVPer's sad. If we are really being honest, the size of the PVP player-base within the universe is slowly fading. I've struggled to keep players interested in PVP and i've watched as many players only get enough of the game to fly a cobra in open and then are never to be seen or heard from again.


Many gamers, including myself, have waited years for a space simulation as open and wonderful as this. We had high hopes that player groups would be implemented into the game itself and that competitive play in the open world would be an element that FDEV would be more interested in supporting. As the flight logs have slowly filled this past year, and the days and months have gone by, i've watched many very, very skilled pilots get 'bored' of the game and disappear. They have either grown tired of the instancing issues, difficulty finding players to PVP, lack of reward to PVP, or any combination there-in. Put simply, the majority of PVPer's within the Elite universe are feeling alienated.


As i've struggled to keep people interested in PVP, and with the release of horizons we had high hopes of planetary combat. I read other player groups forums(Inquisition, CODE, Smiling Dog Crew, etc) and chat with them on teamspeak,i play the game daily, i keep up with what's going on with other player groups, and i feel that the Elite: Dangerous title is slowly but surely losing its best, most committed PVP players to the vast emptiness. I'm now at a point where i've tired of promoting "PVP in Elite." I and many other players are wanting to know, are our hopes of PVP support in open play(not CQC) in vain? Are we going to have to look elsewhere to find a place where we can participate in the glorious combat of large fleets clashing?


I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet, but if the Dev team is not interested in supporting player versus player combat in open, i would like to know if our efforts are in vain. If you don't want us here, we will be happy to go elsewhere.


Thanks,
AshesOfHegemony
Fleet Commander
Reign of Annihilation
http://ra-elitedangerous.enjin.com/

CC Zac Antonaci, Edward Lewis, Brett Cooper

 

[Trojan]

Well worded ashes - While I do not pvp myself, I can understand your frustration.

 

[Legacy_LuckyLuke]

I really don't see the issue. Isn't this what player groups are for? That you can take over systems and then organise against each other?

If by PvP you mean engaging every player from "Mostly Harmless" to "Elite" in Sidewinders to Anacondas... well frankly, it aint everyones cup of tea

We're all in this game for different reasons. Let's learn to play together better.

 

[Toypar]

PVP is dying, being slowly phased out so that the game will be renamed "Harmless: Safespace".

 

[cpunk]

I understand your pain. I play in solo because I am a carebear no pvp. BUT, I got the guts to admit it AND for that, I would never call you names, because you and I play a different game in different ways. People shouldn't complain the instant they go OPEN. it means another way of fun. Those who are wrong are the "griefer" caller. Don't want to die? solo. Play with friends? Private. Go open? Be ready for anything.

But what you point out is the problems of ANY MMO, as soon as there is PVP interaction, there is frustration and problems. I cannot name ONE MMO that hasn't got that. Heck, even in FULL PVP MMO you got crying people.

Now, here it's even more saddening because you got instances, that is even if you are in the same system and so on, you CAN even miss the other human interaction because he isn't in the same "bubble" as you.... BUT in the same system. Hurray :'( ! Add the billion stars and you got it.

Silence.

 

[Bomba Luigi]

When we finally do engage in PVP, we are often labeled as "griefers" and shunned by a large majority of players simply because they are either incapable of giving us a decent challenge, are either too afraid to engage us, or are unwilling to take up a banner to organize against us.

Thats the kind of mindset I just do not understand. As you can see by the reactions of these players they very cleary did not enjoy that gameplay, that they don't have fun is why they don't wanna play that with you not because they are bad at videogames or afraid. And I don't see how you can expect people that did not enjoy that do go and seek more of that gameplay they did not enjoy.

Serious man, some people simply have no fun playing with you so they won't.

 

[AshesOfHegemony]

Its hard enough to find players in the universe. Player groups aren't supported and if we want a decent clash we have to go into each others teamspeaks to find it(good luck organizing a random battle). CQC is not the answer, it is only an ends to a means. In open you can't just die and come right back to fight again, there is something real and more tangible about losing your ship in open. The adrenaline rush is much greater, nothing compares to it after you've done everything else in the game. The reality is, the PVPers are the "end-gamers" we are the most dedicated players because we worked the hardest and are willing to lose the most, so we can get to participate in the most exhilarating thing any game has to offer....PVP.

 

[cpunk]

Player groups aren't supported

THIS. You point out a REAL thing here. I'm sure these could add a LOT.

 

[Don_Von_Hulio]

"And if you look to your right you can see a mode called CQC"

Spoiler

 

[MarcusKross]

Elite Dangerous is NOT a PvP game.

/thread

 

[cpunk]

CQC is a joke. Not even all modes are played, the player balance is horrible, you get restricted by ship choice. Not to mention AFK and quitters. I didn't even play a CTF yet. The matchmaking kicked me out after 30 minutes of wait. 30 MINUTES. Yup, CQC, the joke.

 

[Thaliesin]

The game is far from being finished... that's why everyone's complaining.
The potential is great, we all see it I think. But there's still much more to be done, in almost all compartments.

PvP is no exception.

 

[cpunk]

I never liked the idea of making an excuse with the development plan to justify some flawed design.

In my country, we got a proverb that would go like this :

One, take it, is better than Two, you will get them.

 

[Don_Von_Hulio]

CQC is not the answer. That's like saying Call of Duty is a better version of Arma for PVP. There is nothing to lose in either game anyways. You just die and respawn.

What you seem to want is the same type of instant action but in Open at a larger scale with teams you chose AND the gratification knowing the opponent lost something after a defeat.... well, too bad. The universe is a huge and the instancing is still bad as well as CQC being questionably broken or severely ignored game mode. Not everyone plays open and not everyone cares as much about PvP as you. If you ask people on the other side of the pond they will say, "Elite has too much multiplayer focus and not enough universal content" (or something similar).

You can play the game the way you want which it sounds like you have been but now the fun is dwindling. Its not so much that the game is lacking PvP aspects, its the fact the game is still very shallow in terms of content to diversify the game play experience. Its not a PvP only game, and its not a single player only game either.

 

[{SAS}Stalker]

Hi Ashes, I totally agree with you mate but I don't think the PvP scene is unified enough to offer a voice to FD that they take seriously. We are too blighted with infighting, bad feeling, skiddies, exploiters and rivers of salt to compare with the background drone of the unified pve chaps.

I don't think FD take the PvP scene seriously, consider us nothing more than an annoyance that they hope to stamp out (if you read Sandro's latest post).

 

[Thaliesin]

The reality is, the PVPers are the "end-gamers" we are the most dedicated players because we worked the hardest and are willing to lose the most, so we can get to participate in the most exhilarating thing any game has to offer....PVP.

Not really. Everyone here choose what they like, and that's their "end game".
And everyone wants more feature added for it as if it was the only important thing around...

 

[AshesOfHegemony]

Such a cool guy, this AshesofHegemony fella. Can't understand why ppl don't want to play with him.
Probably because he's too good for us. Yeah, that must be it.

Honestly, what we really want is more incentive to PVP. We want you non-PVPer's to come PVP us, and come to the realization PVP is actually REALLY fun. Right now we are just a bunch of 'space salt miners' versus a bunch of scrubs who can hardly survive against overpowered NPC's. Get better at piloting and give us a challenge. That's what we want. There's no incentive to taking us down or becoming a better pilot. We refrain from killing "harmless and mostly harmless" players, but most players hardly even fly a cobra. If you don't want to PVP just fly only cobras...its a waste of our time to chase you.

 

[Don_Von_Hulio]

Honestly, what we really want is more incentive to PVP. We want you non-PVPer's to come PVP us, and come to the realization PVP is actually REALLY fun. Right now we are just a bunch of 'space salt miners' versus a bunch of scrubs who can hardly survive against overpowered NPC's. Get better at piloting and give us a challenge. That's what we want. We refrain from killing "harmless and mostly harmless" players, but most players hardly even fly a cobra. If you don't want to PVP just fly only cobras...its a waste of our time to chase you.

So you wont get on the Bat Phone and call in backup if you start feeling challenged or even losing?

 

[Lianachan]

Thats the kind of mindset I just do not understand. As you can see by the reactions of these players they very cleary did not enjoy that gameplay, that they don't have fun is why they don't wanna play that with you not because they are bad at videogames or afraid. And I don't see how you can expect people that did not enjoy that do go and seek more of that gameplay they did not enjoy.

Serious man, some people simply have no fun playing with you so they won't.

Yup, exactly this. I don't see why that's so hard for some people to understand. The "everybody who doesn't play like I do is inferior" attitude is tiresome, and seemingly common.

 

[Bomba Luigi]

Honestly, what we really want is more incentive to PVP. We want you non-PVPer's to come PVP us, and come to the realization PVP is actually REALLY fun. Right now we are just a bunch of 'space salt miners' versus a bunch of scrubs who can hardly survive against overpowered NPC's. Get better at piloting and give us a challenge. That's what we want. There's no incentive to taking us down or becoming a better pilot. We refrain from killing "harmless and mostly harmless" players, but most players hardly even fly a cobra. If you don't want to PVP just fly only cobras...its a waste of our time to chase you.

Fun for you, not fun for everybody. People are diffrent, I promise!

Its really nothing personal, if somebody does not want to play with you it has nothing to do with you. Just a lot of Folks baught this game for the PvE and thats what they want to do, and theres nothing wrong with that. Its cool if you want to do PvP, its cool if someone wants to do PvE.