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An open email to FDEV from a hardened PVP Veteran...
- Thread starter AshesOfHegemony
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Hi Ashes, thanks for posting this message. I would like to offer my take and have taken a few quotes from your letter to give my opinion.
Would it not make sense to set up base close to each others systems and compete against each other for spoils? One could play the crusading knights while the other play scum bags. You get your PvP and other people who want to play in open would know the systems to avoid and can head over to your space once they gain sufficient confidence in their combat skills to join one group or the other. Just an idea.
That's my take. One day when I'm confident in my combat skills (learning to fly with a joystick and thruster at the moment) I would love to join a group that engages in PvP and have a cause I can associate with. For the minute I'm enjoying other things.
C-T
Were all these consensual? If not then it should come as no surprise to you that people are leaving for Solo or Group play. What challenge would a trade conda offer to a full military spec FDL? Therefore people are likely to get bored after the first few 'easy' kills.
Later you go on to mention other PvP groups. Some of those allegedly role-play
Would it not make sense to set up base close to each others systems and compete against each other for spoils? One could play the crusading knights while the other play scum bags. You get your PvP and other people who want to play in open would know the systems to avoid and can head over to your space once they gain sufficient confidence in their combat skills to join one group or the other. Just an idea.Why are they getting bored? There is surely enough challenge within the PvP groups if organised well enough. See comments above.
You do realise player owned groups are getting a lot of love? If you are so well organised then set yourself up in a system and try to expand. PvP against the other PvP groups and not WITH them. A player owned group is likely to become a power in the near future it is hoped. If there are so many people interested in PvP then it would stand to reason that you and your many associates could achieve a similar aim. It's all there for you, group play is possible. It sounds like you have a great organisation outside of the game which i imagine is half the battle.
I've actually felt group and solo have been alienated. Lets think about the various competitions that FD have run. All in game competitions have required players to plat in OPEN. As a group player (Kamzel - Distand Worlds and Mobius) I could have serious issue with that. Then there is CQC which has a significant cash prize and supports PvP. there has been nothing for group/open.
I've already answered this. You could organise against each other. You want mass combat, then sell the thrill of doing combat against the treacherous CODE or down right dirty Smiling Dogs. We the Annihilators will crush those foul evil-doers. Watch the players flock to your banner for PvP action. If all you want to do is play the nasty kid, who enjoys pulling wings off of insects, then don't expect the good boys to want to play with you.
That's my take. One day when I'm confident in my combat skills (learning to fly with a joystick and thruster at the moment) I would love to join a group that engages in PvP and have a cause I can associate with. For the minute I'm enjoying other things.
C-T
Nitek [pl]
Banned
There is no loss, no rish, no adrenaline. It is too simple, not rewarding in any way. One kill in open is worth a 1000 in cqc.
Having read the OP, it sounds like the "the kind of PvP" you are doing does not hold interest if people are leaving?
Also, I don't believe this game is about one single activity, it is going to get old, no matter how much fun it was initially.
I prefer PvP to be a natural part of the game where if I meet a random player enemy/enemies during my normal play, then we can choose if we wish to fight or not. This kind of play feels much more immersive and natural to me.
Maybe you need to introduce extra elements such as an objective to your group PvP like have one of your wings fly a convoy with fighter protection with another forms an attacking wing. Again this doesn't feel natural to me, but it might help with the added interest element?
Also, I don't believe this game is about one single activity, it is going to get old, no matter how much fun it was initially.
I prefer PvP to be a natural part of the game where if I meet a random player enemy/enemies during my normal play, then we can choose if we wish to fight or not. This kind of play feels much more immersive and natural to me.
Maybe you need to introduce extra elements such as an objective to your group PvP like have one of your wings fly a convoy with fighter protection with another forms an attacking wing. Again this doesn't feel natural to me, but it might help with the added interest element?
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Hi Ashes, thanks for posting this message. I would like to offer my take and have taken a few quotes from your letter to give my opinion.
Were all these consensual? If not then it should come as no surprise to you that people are leaving for Solo or Group play. What challenge would a trade conda offer to a full military spec FDL? Therefore people are likely to get bored after the first few 'easy' kills.
Later you go on to mention other PvP groups. Some of those allegedly role-play
Why are they getting bored? There is surely enough challenge within the PvP groups if organised well enough. See comments above.
You do realise player owned groups are getting a lot of love? If you are so well organised then set yourself up in a system and try to expand. PvP against the other PvP groups and not WITH them. A player owned group is likely to become a power in the near future it is hoped. If there are so many people interested in PvP then it would stand to reason that you and your many associates could achieve a similar aim. It's all there for you, group play is possible. It sounds like you have a great organisation outside of the game which i imagine is half the battle.
I've actually felt group and solo have been alienated. Lets think about the various competitions that FD have run. All in game competitions have required players to plat in OPEN. As a group player (Kamzel - Distand Worlds and Mobius) I could have serious issue with that. Then there is CQC which has a significant cash prize and supports PvP. there has been nothing for group/open.
I've already answered this. You could organise against each other. You want mass combat, then sell the thrill of doing combat against the treacherous CODE or down right dirty Smiling Dogs. We the Annihilators will crush those foul evil-doers. Watch the players flock to your banner for PvP action. If all you want to do is play the nasty kid, who enjoys pulling wings off of insects, then don't expect the good boys to want to play with you.
That's my take. One day when I'm confident in my combat skills (learning to fly with a joystick and thruster at the moment) I would love to join a group that engages in PvP and have a cause I can associate with. For the minute I'm enjoying other things.
C-T
Nail on the head there CMDR +1 rep to you!
I would like to see this incorporated into the mission system if possible. Would be cool if one Cmdr took a mission to escort or a passenger and another Cmdr saw a mission to take out the transporting CMDR. PvP which fits with the lone CMDR big galaxy feel.... I think FD could do this easy and from the way I think their going with mission with could be the future.
Also I would love to see a mission planner from FD so player groups could design their own stories and quests. Would be good to have one per player group as a test/right of passage.. Perhaps with a badge to put on your ship once earned...
PS I know there's loads of changes coming to missions but would like to see more player made content in the mission system as well as PvP integration that involves wings..
Fly safe cmdrs changes are coming but I would really like to get some play content in the game.
Also I would love to see a mission planner from FD so player groups could design their own stories and quests. Would be good to have one per player group as a test/right of passage.. Perhaps with a badge to put on your ship once earned...
PS I know there's loads of changes coming to missions but would like to see more player made content in the mission system as well as PvP integration that involves wings..
Fly safe cmdrs changes are coming but I would really like to get some play content in the game.
The OP has put up a good case to FD for PvP in ED, and drawn a predictable response. IMHO the problem for those that support PvP is in their "Own Ranks". A large proportion of them only play ED to Kill other players and they are not interested in exploration, trading or any other aspect of the game. Predictably that means a huge number of players choose not to go open!
In my view that is sad, but I do not think that things will change any time soon, as the game needs the PvP mindset to change and FD need to address a fundamental issue in the game, that has been mentioned many times in these forums.
Firstly, we need to see from the PvP Brigade, a wider interest in the development of the game and their style of play. "Killing" other players should not be the sole reason why they play the game. e.g. As a pirate fight other pirate groups to develop pirate faction/group domination in Anarchic space. "Ride Shotgun" for Traders going through dangerous space!
Secondly and probably more importantly, FD need to get better balance into the "Risk versus Reward" part of the game. As one example as a Cmdr in open play, I am willing to risk trading through pirate (Player Cmdr) infested space, my reward should be far greater than if I traded through "Safe" high security routes. The Quid Pro Quo is that If I play Pirate in open the consequences and rewards of Theft and Murder should be high....much much higher than they are now. e.g. much bigger bounties, inability to get into Hi Sec stations etc. Another example FD, what about enabling the game mechanic to give credits to other players? As a trader in dangerous space I can elect to pay a team of "Ne'er do Wells" to ride shotgun for me?
IMHO, Get the "Risk v Reward" balance right FD and "Open Play" would become great fun for all!
In my view that is sad, but I do not think that things will change any time soon, as the game needs the PvP mindset to change and FD need to address a fundamental issue in the game, that has been mentioned many times in these forums.
Firstly, we need to see from the PvP Brigade, a wider interest in the development of the game and their style of play. "Killing" other players should not be the sole reason why they play the game. e.g. As a pirate fight other pirate groups to develop pirate faction/group domination in Anarchic space. "Ride Shotgun" for Traders going through dangerous space!
Secondly and probably more importantly, FD need to get better balance into the "Risk versus Reward" part of the game. As one example as a Cmdr in open play, I am willing to risk trading through pirate (Player Cmdr) infested space, my reward should be far greater than if I traded through "Safe" high security routes. The Quid Pro Quo is that If I play Pirate in open the consequences and rewards of Theft and Murder should be high....much much higher than they are now. e.g. much bigger bounties, inability to get into Hi Sec stations etc. Another example FD, what about enabling the game mechanic to give credits to other players? As a trader in dangerous space I can elect to pay a team of "Ne'er do Wells" to ride shotgun for me?
IMHO, Get the "Risk v Reward" balance right FD and "Open Play" would become great fun for all!
This people don't go open because of PVPers is a rubbish excuse
.
the reason that PVPers cant find people who want to fight is because the chance of finding someone is small (pfind), the chance of someone who wants to fight is small(pfight)
.
The chance of finding some one AND that person wants to fight is miniscule (pfind x pfight)
.
The only way for "FD to change the fundamental issue" as you call it is to severely reduce the playing area down to around 100 systems and to severely curtail the number of roles a player can use only problem is its no longer Elite
.
the reason that PVPers cant find people who want to fight is because the chance of finding someone is small (pfind), the chance of someone who wants to fight is small(pfight)
.
The chance of finding some one AND that person wants to fight is miniscule (pfind x pfight)
.
The only way for "FD to change the fundamental issue" as you call it is to severely reduce the playing area down to around 100 systems and to severely curtail the number of roles a player can use only problem is its no longer Elite
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DBOBE : PVP should be rare and meaningful /thread
"QED"...............This more eloquently than I, explains why so many do not play open!
Yeah, switching to solo till he has a mil speced FDL. Sure.
"stop being a loser", "pve peasants" etc. pp.
Whatever the game, PKers always sound the same.
Whatever the game, PKers always sound the same.
Deleted member 38366
D
Don't know exactly what to make of the Thread, as the OP didn't exactly specify what the specific issue is?
Do the "Gankers" (the cancer FDev has nourished and given all unfair/unbalanced advantages possible since Day 1) begin to see the fruits of their hard labour?
Running out of Targets? Tired of being called out for what they are in the social environment?
What's exactly the issue?
Do they seriously expect that Type-7 CMDR they just blew up to give them "a challenge"?
Or manage to ad-hoc form a Wing of Ships to take on a fight against multiple (!) Wings?
Or "take up the banner" to start fighting the "baddies" without ever knowing where they are? With what assets? With all risk and zero reward, never able to make any difference nor achieve anything meaningful?
And all that preferrably within the hour - perform the exact same that likely took this very Group months (!) to organize?
*lol*
Sorry m8, that ain't happening.
The only things that come to my mind :
"happening exactly as predicted"
Design Decision(tm)
"Working as intended"
So my advice for PvP (Ganker?) Groups : enjoy it while it lasts.
The cancer that has been injected into Open Play a.k.a. Lawless/Terror Play is doing its thing, exactly as predicted long before the Game was released.
It's beginning to eat up the host - and now it's demanding more food because it's running low.
And it won't stop, until it has either consumed the infected host or consumed itself by running out of food.
Usual Disclaimer :
The PvP guys aren't at fault - it was no other than Frontier's out-of-place implementation and retaining the upto 50000:1 imbalance in PvP, all while keeping even the most active "Killers" entirely free of any meaningful consequences.
They've been warned - they've ignored the warnings.
So I'm serious about that statement for PvP guys :
Keep doing whatever you feel you need to do. Just be aware that every single kill will have consequences... Every single Insurance Screen you hand out for your few Minutes of fun.
Make of it what you wish.
Do the "Gankers" (the cancer FDev has nourished and given all unfair/unbalanced advantages possible since Day 1) begin to see the fruits of their hard labour?
Running out of Targets? Tired of being called out for what they are in the social environment?
What's exactly the issue?
Do they seriously expect that Type-7 CMDR they just blew up to give them "a challenge"?
Or manage to ad-hoc form a Wing of Ships to take on a fight against multiple (!) Wings?
Or "take up the banner" to start fighting the "baddies" without ever knowing where they are? With what assets? With all risk and zero reward, never able to make any difference nor achieve anything meaningful?
And all that preferrably within the hour - perform the exact same that likely took this very Group months (!) to organize?
*lol*
Sorry m8, that ain't happening.
The only things that come to my mind :
"happening exactly as predicted"
Design Decision(tm)
"Working as intended"
So my advice for PvP (Ganker?) Groups : enjoy it while it lasts.
The cancer that has been injected into Open Play a.k.a. Lawless/Terror Play is doing its thing, exactly as predicted long before the Game was released.
It's beginning to eat up the host - and now it's demanding more food because it's running low.
And it won't stop, until it has either consumed the infected host or consumed itself by running out of food.
Usual Disclaimer :
The PvP guys aren't at fault - it was no other than Frontier's out-of-place implementation and retaining the upto 50000:1 imbalance in PvP, all while keeping even the most active "Killers" entirely free of any meaningful consequences.
They've been warned - they've ignored the warnings.
So I'm serious about that statement for PvP guys :
Keep doing whatever you feel you need to do. Just be aware that every single kill will have consequences... Every single Insurance Screen you hand out for your few Minutes of fun.
Make of it what you wish.
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i was that T6
It is valid gameplay, but you couldn't be more wrong.
I did learn very quickly will grant you that.
I joined MOBIUS. One less insect to pull the wings off.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Some keywords/phrases to avoid for this type of thread: "griefer"; "carebear"; "loser"; "peasants"; ""scared"; "fear"; "learn to play"; "right way to play".
Thanks.
Thanks.
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Good for you, I don't expect you to stay in the same system to be killed over and over again
There are always fresh targets
Well, I'm not a great PvP'er myself. But if you are in open and wanted by the authorities and see Cmdr. Alma Frohock, you'd better hope I'm in an Asp. Cause if I'm in my Python, there's going to be violence. I use my Python to bounty hunt (and I don't care if it's an NPC or a player) and to help others against those who would attack weaker players for no reason other than the lulz. Of course if that weaker player is wanted, I'll stand back and watch the show. So I support you guys; so long as you don't take on weaker players, and by weaker I mean in a sense of ship capability. There's always going to be a disparity concerning pilot skills.
Some people don't like PvP and Elite is not all about PvP.
If you were mugged by a gang and beaten to an inch of your life for no good reason in a part of town, would you come out of hospital and go straight back? No.
Which is why there are thousands of us in Mobius.
I do occasionally jump into open and yes I like the feeling that hollow squares or triangles on the scanner could be complete psychos, but if I were to be destroyed for 'just being there' then it would push me back into Mobius straight away.
You can't have it all folks. Care bears is the wrong term - why should people playing the game they want to be fodder for mindless idiots in gangs? You drive them out of open by destroying them and then complain that they are 'afraid' or are 'losers'
The only losers I see in this thread are the PvPers with the wrong mindset.
If you were mugged by a gang and beaten to an inch of your life for no good reason in a part of town, would you come out of hospital and go straight back? No.
Which is why there are thousands of us in Mobius.
I do occasionally jump into open and yes I like the feeling that hollow squares or triangles on the scanner could be complete psychos, but if I were to be destroyed for 'just being there' then it would push me back into Mobius straight away.
You can't have it all folks. Care bears is the wrong term - why should people playing the game they want to be fodder for mindless idiots in gangs? You drive them out of open by destroying them and then complain that they are 'afraid' or are 'losers'
The only losers I see in this thread are the PvPers with the wrong mindset.
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