An unintentionally good overview of what's wrong with ED

[Boomer Kay]

Inara.cz has a much better galnet archive including tags.

And that magical device that keeps me connected with all the 3rd party resources is called a kindle fire hdx. Saves you the alt-tabbing and you can use worthless bathroom downtime to keep up with the forums. (Dont think about it ;p )

 

[CMDR Adelind]

So, I'm a great fan of Obsidianant's videos- great editing, good voiceing and always nice content.
The posting from 9th of Sep (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Nhbp_pXFAs) is actually a great overview of what's wrong with ED. Now, please bear in mind that I'm using his video as an example; by no means do I imply that this is Obsidianant's opinion, nor his intention, etc. Views are all mine.

What do I mean?
0:19 'at the moment, there seems to be no context why why (Empire/Fed) fight each other there (Mu Koji)'
Exactly. There's no in-game link, information, happening that would explain why two superpowers chose that system to beat each other up. All background on this has to be handled outside the game on forums, newsletters, you name it. Nothing new and not specific to this CG, I know, but I thought this is an interesting point made.
Furthermore, supporting one of the factions has absolutely no in-game consequences. I can happily do the Empire CG and, on the same day if I got the time, do Fed missions elsewhere. Nothing new again, aye, but it gets a bit silly doesn't it?

2:50 'there seem to be quite a few bugs on these for some reason' No kidding. CZs with cease fire, client crashes, etc. Esp. the cease fire is interesting. Because this illustrates that the individual instances (CZs) have nothing to do with the wider picture (CG) or galaxy wide events. They're put into the system like any other CZ anywhere else, and follow the generic CZ rules. Now, before anyone jumps on me with the 'what is the problem, just go to another one' argument- I am not arguing the workaround nor the technicality. I'm arguing that the more ED tries to build up some type of story, the more it gets evident that the toolset the game offers is not up for that.

3:22 'there is quite a bit of background story...' Spot a trend? There is some background story available outside the game, with very little linkage to in-game presentation. No, sorry, an article on GalNet doesn't cut it. Or, in other words, it's not 'apparent in the game itself'.

5:00 'a very bad game-breaking bug', ah well, see https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...rash-to-desktop-if-entering-the-convoy-beacon

So let's see. Within 5 minutes of overview, we have
1x game breaking bug for something that should be bog-standard
1x normal game behavior (ceasefire) that breaks part of the CG and certainly the story
2x instances where game and story background have to be found outside the game with poor linkage to the game engine

None of this is new and all of the above issues are known since launch, I get it. But given the rather poor execution the the pre-hunt events (hiding clues in videos? Because the game doesn't have the toolset to do in-game), the apparent desire to develop a story and the sad state of the mission system isn't it about time this changes? Can't have it both ways- a game engine that is providing barebones story less random event and a galactic story line that has to be followed, read, and interacted with on forums just don't combine well. I think Obsidianant's video shows this quite well.

.19, The Federation and the Empire have never stopped fighting anywhere, this is just a mild flare up in the normal state of affairs. It's like saying there's no context for the proxy wars between America and USSR because it all happened with statecraft, and news only came after the fact, or when it was being manipulated. The presentation is in the NPCs, missions and background sim. The consequences are the direction the story takes, and the BGS, for people who're interested in that stuff. I'm interested in the politics, so I pay close attention.

2.50, Fair point, the whole conflict zone/res site thing needs a rework, if nothing else it just feels weird, I find the suspension of disbelief hard flying into one of those.

3.22, There's isn't much backstory any more, it's in the process of being retconned, but what is still canon is read through the two maps and station news, not Galnet. You have to go find it and read it in game, then let it lead you other places and read more. The Rift mystery is supposedly solvable with only the game and a pen. One of the biggest plots, available to everyone, no out of game info required. There's plenty of other games with cutscenes and false personalisation.

5.00, Yep, bugs are a thing.

I didn't find the execution of the pre-hunt events poor, it was cleverly done, widely distributed and achieved all of it's objectives. I'd much rather them slap together a quick video than waste $100k's and man hours on single use eye candy because people can't be bothered reading. That time is better spent fixing those bugs you mentioned.

We can have it both ways, since no matter what many people just skip through the cutscenes/briefings/whatever and prefer to pick it up as they play. Or, later, on a forum. But our game is special because it even takes into account the actions of people who aren't trying to participate in the story. Or even trying to avoid it.

Some fair points though. Even something as simple as the enormous ship's library is those old Star Trek space sims like Starfleet Academy would make a big difference to easing people into the story.

 

[Luponator]

Loads of interesting points made but we're drifting off into meta-discussions around lack of/need for story. That wasn't my intention, esp. not so because I totally see that ED does have story lines.

My post was more about lack of linkage of story/events/incidents into gameplay, hence point 1 & 3, "'at the moment, there seems to be no context why why (Empire/Fed) fight each other there (Mu Koji)'", "'there is quite a bit of background story..."
As for bugs, of course every game has bugs. Having a crash bug affect a GC is a bit disappointing though, and the CZ state is not a bug- it's a design issue as explained well in this thread exactly due to the lack of linkage between story, BGS, systems, etc.

I'm not at all arguing for more of a quest-like style game or for more support for lone heroes overthrowing the mega villain, but I'm arguing for more, deeper, more meaningful influence of story, CGs, BGS events and gameplay. Example: Mu Koji should right now be a very different system than it was a week ago. Prices should be all over the place. System security should be reduced (two major powers shooting at each other must, really, influence system security). Being a Fed or an Imp should have consequences in this system. And so on. In reality, if I know nothing of the CG (because I don't read forums for example), I jump into the system, see a few CZs, consider them like any other CZ and am on my merry way to do business as usual. That's my point. Cynaqq mentioned the additional stations that are now in place on the way to the Pleiades nebula. Is there anything different about these? Any buildup phase seen in the systems? Half build ones? Etc Etc.

Oh and yes. I do forum surfing and video watching while long-distance trading. Jumping around the galaxy, fuel scooping and counting minutes while my destination timer is at 0:07 is just too boring to do exclusively, esp. if my trade runs take an hour or two. And yes, I chose to do long distance trading and know it's as interesting as watching paint dry. Doesn't make it any better, though.

 

[Luponator]

We can have it both ways, since no matter what many people just skip through the cutscenes/briefings/whatever and prefer to pick it up as they play. Or, later, on a forum. But our game is special because it even takes into account the actions of people who aren't trying to participate in the story. Or even trying to avoid it.

Some fair points though. Even something as simple as the enormous ship's library is those old Star Trek space sims like Starfleet Academy would make a big difference to easing people into the story.

I'm with you on that, esp. if cutscenes are non-dynamic: Seeing the same cutscene gets tiring after 20 times. Don't get me wrong, I don't argue for video candy, boss fights, revelations that come in form of visions while asleep and other plot drivers that work in a single player campaign game. Not at all.

I'm saying that a system, for example, where the Feds and the Empire are in open hostility, with community goal missions to get into the fighting, should feel vastly different than it's neighboring system. The NPCs in that system should react to you depending on your faction and your location. The BGS should be pretty visibly affected. And the outcome of the CGs should also have an impact, in game, not just paying participants.

 

[CMDR Adelind]

Good points again. Superpower alignment does have an effect, but we're all seen as part of the apolitical Pilot's Federation first, so it takes a fair bit of work. I'm 70-something% hostile, the Fed stations keep killing me, so I'm going to go make nice with them now so I can get my stuff out of my house before the UA bombs shut it down. ^^

 

[aRJay]

The Empire/Fed skirmishing and pending war seems irrelevant with the coming aliens.

Oh come on, do you really think the 2.2 aliens will be friendly?!?

Actually a part of me does hope so, if only for the consternation here in the forums.

What I'd really like is if we couldn't tell what they were like in relationship to ourselves because they were alien and we had almost nothing in common except a few fundamental laws of physics.

 

[aRJay]

I wouldn't say irelivent , i can't see fed and empire kissing and making up because of a common enemy

Think of the Federation Empire thing as a family fight that someone barges into, the fact that you hate that bit of your family doesn't make them not family and if some outsider threatens the family both sides will turn on them.

 

[aRJay]

Perhaps FD recognise that people tend to have multiple applications open.

I mean, if everyone has an internet browser open at all times anyway, why would they not accept alt+tab as a valid "game" choice?

So much of the factional politics of the game take place outside the EliteDangerous64 executable - doe it really make sense to think of a game as just what happens inside it?

Careful down that route lies multiple cans of wyrms (spelling intentional).

When we have space legs and landable Earth Like Worlds and players wandering around outside wearing 3rd generation wearable VR overlay displays trying to find engineering materials under peoples cars etc.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Or every MMOG ever written in the last 20 years.
I think all those "game designers" simply cannot design well designed games, when it's that easy:
Step 1: write stuff on paper
Step 2: hack stuff into computer
Step 3: perfect game

Oh and btw -> CZs spawn endless ships: players complain. CZs stop spawning endless ships: players complain. Time to rewrite one of the fundamental theological paradoxies: If god is omnipotent, can he himself create a game that he himself finds nothing to complain about? https://forums-cdn.frontier.co.uk/images/smilies-frontier/tongue.png

Paging Mr Brab..................... <connection lost due to lighning strike>

 

[sqzbox1]

Isn't it really just a matter of perspective? I mean, I sit in my room here in good ol' godzone (NZ) and unless I make the effort to watch the news, global events hardly touch me - and I wouldn't even know about them if I didn't check out what is going on (Galnet parallel). I am just one person and global events move around me hardly touching me at all. So I don't see a single pilot really noticing galactic events too much.

The Fed/Impie conflict seems obvious to me and requires no explanation - it is fundamental social and political opposites. Combine that with politicians thirst for more power and territorial expansion and you will get conflict on the borders. What's so hard to understand about that?

As for the ceasefires in CZ's - again, what is so hard to understand about that? There will always be the main Fed/Imp battle to be found (you just have to look for them) - it is the internecine battles that sometimes reach a ceasefire. But these wouldn't be suitable for a mercenary anyway because even if battle was in progress you would find that the factions are not what you are looking for for your combat bonds. So what is the problem here?

 

[Flin]

My post was more about lack of linkage of story/events/incidents into gameplay, hence point 1 & 3, "'at the moment, there seems to be no context why why (Empire/Fed) fight each other there (Mu Koji)'", "'there is quite a bit of background story..."

I agree that a bit of polish is needed here in-game.

And of course bugs need to be fixed.

However, I think DB and FDEV are quite strategic in working through the ED development.

They created various sections of gameplay for different player segments. CQC for one, PP for another, BGS for another and of course the core flight design for the space pilot segments. And of course the linkages are all a bit unpolished.

The core of ED design principle is that all play modes are equal. Delivering this on this in a polished manner is a tough challenge.

I personally think they should go full meta and create the FDEV game ecosystem in the manner of Xbox Live or Steam. Or in the manner of Marvel Cinematic Universe. All these gameplay occur in the Elite Universe, but the linkages are better separated and managed with some internal consistency and logic.

 

[nats]

I get that on the Galnet News Network in game. No?

Well you do but its all a bit of a mess. There no way to know if the old articles are still current or not. Its like reading an archive. Thats no way to keep people informed of whats going on in the galaxy. Why haven't we got a current news page with all the important ongoing news items on it - like the BBC News Site? I mean we had this sort of thing in Frontier/FFE with the newspaper subscriptions - you got all the latest news delivered straight to your ship. There needs to be something like that in Galnet. Its needs to be easier to see whats going on right now and what the major current stories are.

 

[Mikey2305]

The word i pick up from the OP is 'toolset'. I think the developers have done an amazing job in bolting all this stuff together to make a living, breathing galaxy for us to play in. To add to that, in my opinion, is not a trivial task. And not something you can rewrite overnight to satisfy a small section of the player base. Neither will they nor should they. Changes, updates, improvements, error corrections need to be properly identified, prepared, planned, executed and evaluated. Some dont seem to have the patience for that

 

[Marcns007]

I don't think it needs much doing to it.

I would prefer to see 3 news feeds with a different take on the same story and only available if you have a faction supporting Empire, Federation or Alliance at a particular station.

That way you can see when these things start gathering momentum but have some background before, which did not happen.

They could also feed off the ED forum which should be changed to Pilots Federation forum and show a live chat area (like Twitter) when parked in the station.

 

[Boff'in]

@op
Galnet is in game.
It counts.

It's been detailing the sabre rattling between the two super powers for the last 6 months.

But you claim galent doesn't count

Community Goals are in-game and therefore should count.
Many CG's have been building up Fed and Imperials making grabs for sites that contain alien presences (Fed cruiser in Merope system).
Resource gathering to create outposts to attain systems under one super-powers rule.

So there has been plenty and in game.

You just chose to ignore all these things - so war may come as a bit of a suprise to you, but that is "your" fault, not the game's, nore Frontier's.