Analysis mode/Combat mode?

Stealthie

Stealthie
Don't mean this as a criticism, I'm just try to understand...

Is there a reason these two modes are required?

It seems like all I ever do is fire up the FSS, do stuff (painfully clumsily), quit out of the FSS again and then swap back to combat mode.

I get that the game requires you to be in analysis mode to honk from the cockpit but I don't really understand why.
You can also do that from the FSS, anyway, and it just seems needlessly contrived to need a separate mode just to activate the honk from the cockpit should you want to.

I just haven't found any situation where I actually need to be in analysis mode while flying my ship. [where is it]

Seems like the game is just trying to "catch you out" by creating the possibility that you'll be interdicted while monkeying with the FSS and then forget that you can't deploy hardpoints cos you're in analysis mode.
 

Bob McBobblehead

Bob McBobblehead
Stealthie said:
Don't mean this as a criticism, I'm just try to understand...

Is there a reason these two modes are required?

It seems like all I ever do is fire up the FSS, do stuff (painfully clumsily), quit out of the FSS again and then swap back to combat mode.

I get that the game requires you to be in analysis mode to honk from the cockpit but I don't really understand why.
You can also do that from the FSS, anyway, and it just seems needlessly contrived to need a separate mode just to activate the honk from the cockpit should you want to.

I just haven't found any situation where I actually need to be in analysis mode while flying my ship. [where is it]

Seems like the game is just trying to "catch you out" by creating the possibility that you'll be interdicted while monkeying with the FSS and then forget that you can't deploy hardpoints cos you're in analysis mode.
Click to expand...

You need analysis mode while flying for ship to use the composition scanner on objects in space and on the surface of planets. It will most likely be used in asteroid fields as well.
 

metatheurgist

metatheurgist
Yeah, the mode switching feels a bit clunky. I wish they could make it feel more integrated. The different modes seem like keybind hell.
 

Stealthie

Stealthie
Bob McBobblehead said:
You need analysis mode while flying for ship to use the composition scanner on objects in space and on the surface of planets. It will most likely be used in asteroid fields as well.
Click to expand...

Is there enough to do with the composition scanner to justify a separate mode for it?

TBH, I really just tried to use it to launch probes while in SC and, upon realising the keybinds were screwed, I've mostly ignored it.
 

Micha

Micha
Stealthie said:
Is there enough to do with the composition scanner to justify a separate mode for it?
Click to expand...

Perhaps not yet, but I'm guessing FDev have more uses planned for it. The mining update might shed some light.

But I wouldn't be entirely surprised if some of the UI designers working on Elite got "prioritised" onto other projects though. The original cockpit/UI is critically acclaimed for its userfriendliness considering what it's aiming to achieve. Not sure the same can be said for more recent additions, although that may be partially to do with having to accommodate console players as well.
 

Drelthar

Drelthar
Firstly you can deploy hardpoints in analysis mode. (I can anyway)

Secondly, yes, there will be a point when mining gets activated.

It'll also be used with the short range composition scanner I suspect, for discovering things on planets.
 

Elyssaen

E
I haven't thought this through yet, but what's bugging me a little so far are fire groups. I've just barely been clinging on to only three fire groups on my Krait, relying heavily on how some modules work in supercruise and some don't. With the beta I get an irritating error every time I try to use my Discovery Scanner now, though, as it's also trying to fire weapons – SC would just quietly not do it, but Analysis Mode makes a fuss.

Where I'm going with this is that the mode switching could be leveraged into a small benefit if Combat and Analysis Mode had their own fire groups. I'm still running out of keys to bind though. : )
 

Morbad

Morbad
metatheurgist said:
Yeah, the mode switching feels a bit clunky. I wish they could make it feel more integrated. The different modes seem like keybind hell.
Click to expand...

Spent the bulk of my first two days in the beta sorting out controls.

We now have at least five distinct piloting interface modes: ship flight, SRV, vanity camera, multi-crew gunner, and FSS, with the DSS and Holo-Me rounding the mess out.

I have different binds for most of these...need to in order to get complete functionality out of each, and it's often impossible to tell what binds will overlap before hand.

This is hugely complex and I can't help but feel that it could be dramatically simplified while still maintaining functionality.
 

CaptainKremmen

CaptainKremmen
Yes, I'm finding the "Enter FSS", "Exit FSS", "Switch Combat HUD Modes" a key-slapping, mode-juggling exercise in confusion right now.

Like, I press "Enter FSS" and look around the system in its funky signal mode. Then I have to press a different button to "Exit" it... but now my HUD is all blue, and I am in a different mode.

It seems I then have to switch back to Combat HUD Mode.


ENTER FSS -> EXIT FSS -> EXIT ANALYSIS MODE

Why?


I'm sure FD will streamline things...
 

Stealthie

Stealthie
Alec Turner said:
I've tried to explain some of the intricacies of the FSS/analysis mode stuff (along with the T.Flight HOTAS bindings I'm using) over here:

Alec's-Q4-findings-guides-and-Thrustmaster-T-Flight-bindings
Click to expand...

Great stuff.

Have you found any significant reasons to need 2 separate modes while in the cockpit though?

As I've said, I haven't really messed with the surface scanner (or whatever it's now called) yet so I'm not sure if that has much in the way of cockpit-based gameplay.
Even if you're launching probes from the cockpit (which I'm not sure if you can do), it doesn't seem like that might necessitate a whole new cockpit mode.

Also, FWIW, I have a Logitech G502 mouse and I've manage to cram all the FSS functions onto that.
Worthy of special note (IMO), the mouse has a feature that allows you to "unlock" the mouse-wheel so you can spin it, which means you can use it to whizz up and down the frequency doodad and then "lock" the mouse-wheel again when you tune into, say, a bunch of USSs or planets of a similar type.

Also, regarding your question about whether planets are previously scanned or not, the only way I've found to tell is that the "bright glowy blob" behind an object goes away after it's been scanned.
If you point at something any it's still got a "bright glowy blob" surrounding it, there's still something there to be discovered.
If it hasn't, it's something you've already scanned to death.

I'm finding this is often the case around stars.
You scan the star and it'll still have the "BGB" around it even though there aren't any planets near it.
You can even get a system registering as 100% scanned and still see a "BGB" around the star.
This usually turns out to be because there's asteroid belts around the star, somewhere on the back side of it, which you haven't yet scanned but which don't count toward the completion percentage.
 

Alec Turner

Alec Turner
Stealthie said:
Great stuff.

Have you found any significant reasons to need 2 separate modes while in the cockpit though?

As I've said, I haven't really messed with the surface scanner (or whatever it's now called) yet so I'm not sure if that has much in the way of cockpit-based gameplay.
Even if you're launching probes from the cockpit (which I'm not sure if you can do), it doesn't seem like that might necessitate a whole new cockpit mode.
Click to expand...
I've been pondering this myself. On the face of it, having an "analysis" mode where any attempt to use weapons tells you that you need to be in "combat" mode, and a "combat" mode where any attempt to use scanners tells you that you need to be in "analysis" mode, combined with the fact that you can only use the scanners in supercruise and you can't use the weapons in supercruise, suggests a certain amount of UI redundancy to say the least!

The only(?) other reason I can see so far is that, if you've probed a planet and found some surface geologicals, these only show in the left-hand nav' panel if you're in "analysis" mode. Similarly, I'm guessing that things like CZ's and RES sites only show in the nav' panel if you're in "combat" mode?

Also, regarding your question about whether planets are previously scanned or not, the only way I've found to tell is that the "bright glowy blob" behind an object goes away after it's been scanned.
If you point at something any it's still got a "bright glowy blob" surrounding it, there's still something there to be discovered.
If it hasn't, it's something you've already scanned to death.
Click to expand...
My question was actually about DSS probe scanning - i.e. can you tell which planets you've covered in probes and which one's you can't? I know a probed planet is covered in a blue glow even after you've come out of probe mode (which I hate by the way) but generally trying to remember which bodies in a system I've probed and which ones I haven't is a pita. I've made a suggestion to Frontier for how to improve this in my thread.
 

MadDogMurdock

MadDogMurdock
Alec Turner said:
I've been pondering this myself. On the face of it, having an "analysis" mode where any attempt to use weapons tells you that you need to be in "combat" mode, and a "combat" mode where any attempt to use scanners tells you that you need to be in "analysis" mode, combined with the fact that you can only use the scanners in supercruise and you can't use the weapons in supercruise, suggests a certain amount of UI redundancy to say the least!

The only(?) other reason I can see so far is that, if you've probed a planet and found some surface geologicals, these only show in the left-hand nav' panel if you're in "analysis" mode. Similarly, I'm guessing that things like CZ's and RES sites only show in the nav' panel if you're in "combat" mode?


My question was actually about DSS probe scanning - i.e. can you tell which planets you've covered in probes and which one's you can't? I know a probed planet is covered in a blue glow even after you've come out of probe mode (which I hate by the way) but generally trying to remember which bodies in a system I've probed and which ones I haven't is a pita. I've made a suggestion to Frontier for how to improve this in my thread.
Click to expand...

The filtering of information in other panels based on UI Mode is completely unnecessary IMO.
It seems to me that Analysis Mode is the basis of a good idea that hasn't been followed through on.

In SC - Analysis Mode is the perfect way to display the information in the FSS and DSS views and use their functions while flying - after all they display exactly the same things that you see out of the cockpit already - just in a more analytical way.
In Normal Space - Analysis Mode can display the appropriate visualization based on what scanner(s) are currently deployed

i.e. make Analysis Mode the view for all sciency / scanny type stuff with combined flight/scan control.
Is this a viable option for Megaship interaction as well?

There may be a mode switching issue where some form of scanner is used in combination with weapons - e.g. Mining - I guess we'll see how that works on Thurs.
 

B1rdy

B1rdy
Stealthie said:
Great stuff.

Have you found any significant reasons to need 2 separate modes while in the cockpit though?
Click to expand...
Multicrew is the only real explanation I can come up with. Another reason might be ship manoeuvrability in super cruise. If you had to point your ship at things, navigation could be a bit tedious if in the wrong ship.
 

IndigoWyrd

IndigoWyrd
I'm a little with Stealthie here... the two modes, and worse, the sheer number of keys required, is quite clunky.

I've got a mode switch, an FSS switch, a Leave FSS switch... I'm thinking most of these could very well be done as Toggles rather than so many buttons, though I'm sure part of it is out of necessity for the hobbled consoles and their very limited number of buttons.

With HOTAS, G13, mouse and keyboard, I have some 13,000 or so buttons and combinations available, but it's really starting to become painful to try to use all of them, as I'd really not have to start doubling up on button combos.
 

VR Murgle

VR Murgle
I've been trying to sort out all these new controls setting them up in a way that makes sense but I'm starting to wonder who's crazy here, me or Fdev. Enter , er I mean FSS, Leave FSS different buttons? Why? Map a surface enable analysis mode launch probe, ok how do I aim or do I really have exit every. single. time.

It's not just that there are way, way too many keybinds it's also too bloody difficult to find the right setting, figuring out what setting does what is a nightmare.

Why oh why are the controls I use to control the camera in the , ehm FSS different from the controls I use to aim my probes? Why does the "Target" button not do anything in the FSS?

Please sort this out because it's really off-putting having to go through this complicated mess of keybinds to find a system that works.

It would be a shame it people simply ignored features because they can't figure out how to make them work. Oh, and speaking of making them work adding some in game tutorial to properly introduce all these new mechanics probably won't hurt...

(I'm assuming the mining is going to be just as overly complicated as the exploration stuff is.)
 

Dural

Dural
The analysis / combat modes look cool because of the UI colour change and all that but serve no practical purpose at all as things stand. If there were 2 separate sets of fire groups it would make more sense. It has been suggested that mining or surveying of some kind will be done in A mode so if that's the case all good. Having a mode switch for something which is dealt with perfectly well with fire groups is just unnecessary. We'll see soon.

As said above, quite a few controls could be combined as toggled switches. It's getting to the point where some kind of controls chart is going to be needed if I'm not playing at least every other day and I've not dared try VR yet.
 
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