Analysis mode/Combat mode?

[Branithar]

The analysis / combat modes look cool because of the UI colour change and all that but serve no practical purpose at all as things stand. If there were 2 separate sets of fire groups it would make more sense. It has been suggested that mining or surveying of some kind will be done in A mode so if that's the case all good. Having a mode switch for something which is dealt with perfectly well with fire groups is just unnecessary. We'll see soon.

As said above, quite a few controls could be combined as toggled switches. It's getting to the point where some kind of controls chart is going to be needed if I'm not playing at least every other day and I've not dared try VR yet.

I agree. In order for it to make any sense, it needs to have two separate sets of fire-groups. The separate modes are kinda cool though, and it's cool seeing the UI change. Switching into analysis mode and seeing a bunch of planetary surface features pop up is kinda slick.

If it's a combat ship that has scanner tools, you don't want to be clicking through a bunch of fire-groups with scanner tools before you can get back to your weapon fire-groups. Having 2 separate sets of fire-groups for both modes would solve that.
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Sidenote, does anybody know where I can find the setting in options for the combat mode/analysis mode keybindings? With my X56 HOTAS, the default mode-switch button is the same as the supercruise button, so sometimes I'll drop out of supercruise when I try to change from combat to analysis mode. I have a thumb slider with 2 clicks and I'd like to bind the mode switch to that.

 

[Morbad]

I've got a mode switch, an FSS switch, a Leave FSS switch... I'm thinking most of these could very well be done as Toggles rather than so many buttons

Yeah, being forced to have separate binds to enter/leave these modes is quite annoying.

I agree. In order for it to make any sense, it needs to have two separate sets of fire-groups.

Concur.

Sidenote, does anybody know where I can find the setting in options for the combat mode/analysis mode keybindings?

The bottom of the "mode something-or-another" submenu.

 

[Stealthie]

I keep saying the same thing but what the game could really do with is for the dev's to work through all the different "modes" (the station menu, the HUDs, the maps, the FSS, the camera suite, the multiplayer doodads and anything else) and standardise the imputs available in all those modes.

Obviously, you wouldn't need all the inputs in all the modes but if there was consistency you'be able to map the same inputs to the same group of buttons, rotaries and hat-switches on a joystick and know you had everything covered and you'd be able to develop muscle-memory for controlling stuff.

When there's only one or two things to deal with, people don't mind extending their understanding (and their list of keybinds) but when the range of stuff balloons in the way ED has, it's time to make our spaceships work a bit like, say, MS Office does; whereby everything is consistent.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

Multicrew is the only real explanation I can come up with. Another reason might be ship manoeuvrability in super cruise. If you had to point your ship at things, navigation could be a bit tedious if in the wrong ship.

General Melchett is outraged that you discovered his secret plan!

 

[Ralph Vargr]

I keep saying the same thing but what the game could really do with is for the dev's to work through all the different "modes" (the station menu, the HUDs, the maps, the FSS, the camera suite, the multiplayer doodads and anything else) and standardise the imputs available in all those modes.

Obviously, you wouldn't need all the inputs in all the modes but if there was consistency you'be able to map the same inputs to the same group of buttons, rotaries and hat-switches on a joystick and know you had everything covered and you'd be able to develop muscle-memory for controlling stuff.

When there's only one or two things to deal with, people don't mind extending their understanding (and their list of keybinds) but when the range of stuff balloons in the way ED has, it's time to make our spaceships work a bit like, say, MS Office does; whereby everything is consistent.

You mean, *play their own game*?

 

[mojonaut]

ENTER FSS -> EXIT FSS -> EXIT ANALYSIS MODE
.

I've obviously missed something, so how do you exit Analysis mode?

I thought exiting FSS would take me back to the combat Hud, found to my cost it didn't when an NPC opened fire on me and I couldn't fire my weapons!

Had to ungraciously exit to main menu using the 15sec timer just to save the ship.

 

[hardtopnet]

As Alec pointed out, I think the usefulness of the Analysis mode might be the information overlay you WOULDN'T WANT to see while in combat mode.

When you use probes to map a planet, this planet shows wireframe/blue pattern on its surface to indicate it was mapped. This overlay only shows while in analysis mode.

The thing that bugs me is that the POI's which are visible in analysis mode are NOT in combat mode, which can be a bummer.

As someone mentioned earlier the scanners only work in SC and weapons only work in normal space, thus both cannot be used at the same time which indicates no overlap is possible. This should be taken into account to streamline the interface.

suggestion (off the top of my head) : remove mode witching, allow usage of scanning tools in normal (AKA "combat") mode and introduce an overlay with special info display (POI's, blue mesh around mapped planets, ...) in the ship's functions akin to night vision (which could be of-course key-bindable).

That said, based on the pre-requisite that weapons are normal space only and scanners SC only. I think that scanners SHOULD BE usable in normal space as well, thus analysis mode overlay should too.

sorry, bit of stream-of-counsciousness posting here.

 

[Faybs]

As Alec pointed out, I think the usefulness of the Analysis mode might be the information overlay you WOULDN'T WANT to see while in combat mode.

When you use probes to map a planet, this planet shows wireframe/blue pattern on its surface to indicate it was mapped. This overlay only shows while in analysis mode.

The thing that bugs me is that the POI's which are visible in analysis mode are NOT in combat mode, which can be a bummer.

As someone mentioned earlier the scanners only work in SC and weapons only work in normal space, thus both cannot be used at the same time which indicates no overlap is possible. This should be taken into account to streamline the interface.

suggestion (off the top of my head) : remove mode witching, allow usage of scanning tools in normal (AKA "combat") mode and introduce an overlay with special info display (POI's, blue mesh around mapped planets, ...) in the ship's functions akin to night vision (which could be of-course key-bindable).

That said, based on the pre-requisite that weapons are normal space only and scanners SC only. I think that scanners SHOULD BE usable in normal space as well, thus analysis mode overlay should too.

sorry, bit of stream-of-counsciousness posting here.

I agree, except that in supercruise you can use the FSD interdictor which is treated like a weapon and the honk works in normal space. Those would need to change.

 

[Alec Turner]

Having just watched the mining livestream I'm now thinking that one of the main motivations for adding analysis mode was the turning on and off of the graphic overlays on the cockpit view which show things like the blue sphere around a probed planet and the highlighting of rich mining resources on ring systems. We basically turn those overlays on and off with the mode switch. Having added the mode switch I guess FD then started thinking about the idea of different modules working in different modes. It's not perfect and has exposed some odd discontinuities but, after my 3rd day in beta, I'm getting used to it now.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

Having just watched the mining livestream I'm now thinking that one of the main motivations for adding analysis mode was the turning on and off of the graphic overlays on the cockpit view which show things like the blue sphere around a probed planet and the highlighting of rich mining resources on ring systems. We basically turn those overlays on and off with the mode switch. Having added the mode switch I guess FD then started thinking about the idea of different modules working in different modes. It's not perfect and has exposed some odd discontinuities but, after my 3rd day in beta, I'm getting used to it now.

Tying the specific overlay visualization to the specific piece of equipment that generates it would make significantly more sense.
Having Analysis Mode and then creating a series of further analytical camera views for FSS and DSS is just a disconnect.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

My current concern (not yet tested) is if all Ships can enter "Analysis Mode".

Reason for that was :
- it takes Analysis Mode to make discovered Mineral Hotspots in Rings or Planetary Volcanism spots visible and targetable after completing Mapping of a Planet/Gas Giant (NAV Panel, Visual Targeting)
-> what if I later return in a Ship without Discovery Scanner (SRV only or a Mining Ship), possible that I can't find the POIs anymore despite being close up?

 

[Alec Turner]

My current concern (not yet tested) is if all Ships can enter "Analysis Mode".

Reason for that was :
- it takes Analysis Mode to make discovered Mineral Hotspots in Rings or Planetary Volcanism spots visible and targetable (NAV Panel, Visual Targeting)
-> what if I later return in a Ship without Discovery Scanner (SRV only or a Mining Ship), possible I can't find the POIs anymore despite being close up?

Pretty sure that analysis mode is an integral part of all ship and vehicle HUDs now and is not tied to specific module. However, if you return to a system that you've previously probed, I somehow doubt that the ring hotspots and blue probing spheres over planets will persist between instances. If I remember I guess I could test this now in beta.

 

[Factabulous]

I'd settle for all the 'modes' being switchable in the same way (i.e. toggle) - having FSS as separate On/Off keys messes with my mind.

Then we could map them as maybe 5 NV, 6 Analysis, 7 FSS, 8 Combat (i.e. after existing subviews)

And not convinced about modules being restricted to certain modes, let me honk in combat mode so I'm ready for interdictions!

Though really they're mixing different concepts and calling them all modes - which is confusing.

Edit: Though I whined about other changes as well, and I now like then so maybe ...

 

[SentineI]

Using the SRV makes it even more painfully clear that the Analysis/Combat mode is boneheaded (in it's current implementation). There are basically no new SRV features, all they did was prevent weapons being used in Analysis mode & scanner stuff being used in Combat mode.

But the solution (for both ship & SRV) is also incredibly simple: Allow most weapons to be used in Analysis mode (just not as optimally as Combat mode), and allow most scanner stuff to be used in Combat mode (just not as optimally as Analysis mode). There will probably be one or two scanner things which can't function at all in Combat mode, but that's fine, keep showing the warning in only those cases.

Analysis mode is good for SHOWING different stuff to Combat mode, but in general Analysis mode should not prevent you USING different things than Combat mode.

 

[RexKraemer]

It maybe already mentioned but my guess for the need of multiple modes (currently two) is, that for console players there is a very limited set of buttons available, so the buttons have to have multiple functions/effects, therefore multiple modes.

 

[Siobhan]

Great stuff.

Have you found any significant reasons to need 2 separate modes while in the cockpit though?

As I've said, I haven't really messed with the surface scanner (or whatever it's now called) yet so I'm not sure if that has much in the way of cockpit-based gameplay.
Even if you're launching probes from the cockpit (which I'm not sure if you can do), it doesn't seem like that might necessitate a whole new cockpit mode.

Also, FWIW, I have a Logitech G502 mouse and I've manage to cram all the FSS functions onto that.
Worthy of special note (IMO), the mouse has a feature that allows you to "unlock" the mouse-wheel so you can spin it, which means you can use it to whizz up and down the frequency doodad and then "lock" the mouse-wheel again when you tune into, say, a bunch of USSs or planets of a similar type.

Also, regarding your question about whether planets are previously scanned or not, the only way I've found to tell is that the "bright glowy blob" behind an object goes away after it's been scanned.
If you point at something any it's still got a "bright glowy blob" surrounding it, there's still something there to be discovered.
If it hasn't, it's something you've already scanned to death.

I'm finding this is often the case around stars.
You scan the star and it'll still have the "BGB" around it even though there aren't any planets near it.
You can even get a system registering as 100% scanned and still see a "BGB" around the star.
This usually turns out to be because there's asteroid belts around the star, somewhere on the back side of it, which you haven't yet scanned but which don't count toward the completion percentage.

Ooh, I use a G502 too... Care to share your binds?

 

[SentineI]

It maybe already mentioned but my guess for the need of multiple modes (currently two) is, that for console players there is a very limited set of buttons available, so the buttons have to have multiple functions/effects, therefore multiple modes.

That's provably wrong (in one common case) in that we have Primary & Secondary fire buttons, whose function depends on the active fire group. (Primary & Secondary fire buttons will stay the same between modes, yet they won't work if the 'wrong' fire group is active.) And in fact that's the main bugbear about having two different modes (you can't just change fire group, you ALSO have to think which mode is required by them, and then switch if necessary - tedious, unnecessary & slow).

 

[Cmdr. Heavenly]

I also think this analysis/combat mode switching is too much, at least in its current implementation. I have to think of the right fire group, analysis/combat mode, FSD or not, all on top of the basic stuff like deploy hardpoints, landing gear and cargo scoop.

I think Frontier should somehow merge analysis/combat mode with the fire groups, e.g. by allowing only the same type of module (analysis or combat) on the same fire group and then switch everthing else (HUD overlays etc.) in conjunction with the fire groups.

Or at the very least, more automation should be added. Each time the game says "switch mode" when I try to fire a tool or weapon, it could switch the mode for me. Ironically, just about the only automatic mode switch that is in the game, the auto-hardpoint-deploy, I don't use, because deploying hardpoints is a safeguard so I don't harm anyone accidently.

 

[DaveB]

I suspect it's a "hook" - a place where FD intend to hang other stuff in the future. They could have done everything that hangs on it now without a separate mode but if they've plans for more it makes sense to get the necessary infrastructure in place first.

The cynic in me also wonders if they are also getting our whingeing and griping about the mere existence of mode-switching out of the way as early as possible so that they can ferret out any really legitimate gripes before the waters get muddied when they roll out the "speculative stuff" that really wouldn't work at all without multiple HUD modes

 

[Sterling MH]

I suspect it's a "hook" - a place where FD intend to hang other stuff in the future. They could have done everything that hangs on it now without a separate mode but if they've plans for more it makes sense to get the necessary infrastructure in place first.

The cynic in me also wonders if they are also getting our whingeing and griping about the mere existence of mode-switching out of the way as early as possible so that they can ferret out any really legitimate gripes before the waters get muddied when they roll out the "speculative stuff" that really wouldn't work at all without multiple HUD modes

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