Analyzing the Asp Scout - Why does it have it's WEIRD stats.

My main issue with the Scout is it has average small ships stats but is medium size. The problem with this is that in combat due to slow speed and larger size it takes loads more hits than the Cobra, which means stronger shields and hull don't count for much as it just dies faster.

Combare it to other multirole ships in the same league - Cobra III, Cobra IV, DBS, DBX and AspX - and every single one of them has some significant advantage over the AspS. The Cobra III and DBS are smaller and faster but with similar weaponry. The Cobra IV is smaller and has more guns. The DBX loses at maneuverability but is smaller, has better guns, much better jump range and is just as tough. The AspX is better at everything except maneuverability. Overall there's just nothing to make the AspS worth owning.

The really perplexing thing is that if you compare it's stats side by side with the DBX you can only conclude it has a load of empty space inside as it's twice the size but they're remarkably similar in terms of internals.
 
I know I keep saying the same thing but I reckon another ship worthy of comparing the AspS to is the DBX.

Most people seem to regard the DBX quite highly - and it is a useful, tough, little ship - but the AspS is better at pretty-much everything an up-armored DBX can do.
The only time the DBX does better is if you're stripping it down for jump-range, to use as a bubble-hopper or explorer.

This isn't true though. Compare these two ships, both non-engineered A-rated for combat:

A rated AspS: 28,895,990cr:
https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/asp...==..EweloBhBGA2EoFMCGBzANokMK6A=&bn=Combat AS

A rated DBX: 22,679,826cr:
https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/dia...Q..EweloBhBmSQUwIYHMA28QgIwV0A=&bn=Combat DBX

Price: DBX wins.
Speed: DBX wins.
Jump range: DBX massive win.
Shields: Asp marginal win, but bigger target so they'll drop quicker
Integrity: Asp marginal win, but bigger target so it'll die quicker
Weapons: Marginal win for DBX
utilities: Win for DBX due to two extras.

Now, tell me again how the Asp S is better? It turns faster but that's it.
 
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This ship is looked at as a "bad" ship and i wanted to see WHY and making a straight comparison with the AspX cannot be done so I added the Cobra MkIII since it is very close in mass with it and armament.

Asp Scout (Base Stats from ED Shipyard)

Size: Medium
Maneuvering: 50% better Yaw than the Cobra MkIII and 10% better Roll than the MkIII / Overall better maneuvering than the AspX
Mass: 20% lighter than the Cobra MkIII / 86% lighter than the AspX
Core Internals: Equivalent size with Cobra MkIII except S4 Power Distributor and Sensors - so +2 points
Optional Internals: Equivalent points to the Cobra MkIII (18) and 33% less than the AspX
Speed (Unladen / 0 pips): 10% slower than the AspX and 27% slower than the Cobra MkIII
Jump Range: 14% shorter than the AspX and 11% longer than the Cobra MkIII
Hardpoints: Similar to the Cobra MkIII
Armour: 33% more than the Cobra MkIII and 17% less than the AspX
Shields: 12% more than the Cobra MkIII and 45% less than the AspX
Hardness: Equal to the AspX and 33% more hardness than the Cobra MkIII
Heat: Fairly low heat generation compared to other ships

Speed / Boost / Maneuverability
As a "Scout" it can perform the role with a relatively useful jump range between 20 to 30 LY depending on engineering. Speed is more problematic as we basically need a DD5 to reach the non-engineered Cobra MkII 2pip speed but stays at a speed of 227 with 2 pips and a boost of 412 with not much else upgraded.

At the same time, it has 33% more armour while having 20% less mass AND 2 points higher total core internals. So even with a DD5 it's a scout that can gain a moderate jump range but cannot RUN when needed except for a possible high wake...

Maneuverability wise it's better on both Yaw and Roll than the MkIII and a medium sized ship so it's a nimble dogfighter for it's size class.

Armament
While equivalent of the Cobra MkIII i honestly think it should have kept the armaments of the AspX to give it an edge due to it's slow speed, making it a highly efficient medium sized but rather slow dogfighter or at least reduced the mediums to small so it had X6 small hardpoints making it a defensive anti-light ship dogfighter.

Defenses
Tanking gives us a bit of a problem too, it's shields are at best a secondary defense since it is slow and have a lot more armour so it becomes a slow armour brawler.

In order to use that more efficiently we need to add more mass with module and hull reinforcement instead of shields. Utilizing B rated modules strangles our speed and jump range so we sit at 220 speed and 400 boost while reaching 2750 effective hitpoints with a reinforced powerplant and a pair of module boosters. Our jump range becomes a moderate 22LY.

And that is with everything top-notch engineered...

http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=A0j0,...Gq3AwPcCoPcGoPc12GGp50sPc4ypDAqpDEqpDIqpD20m0

Thoughts
So, is this a SCOUT? or a medium sized armour tanked dogfighter? Well, it's the second LEAST armoured medium ship before we reach the light league of ships but at the same time the 9th LIGHTEST ship of all ships. But even with all that it's a ship that is a bit hard to wedge into a useful niche due to the rather extensive engineering required to make it...well...better than the other choices we could have.

Conclusion
It's not a BAD ship but being a gutted AspX i still think it's size should have something MORE than merely maneuverability and armour - instead of making it a medium sized, slow, armour tanked Cobra MkIII with poor jump range.

A lot of the ships make little sense. Look at the Anaconda. The Diamondback Explorer still has odd stats. They should be made to a formula like the old Traveller RPG, so things made actual sense. But from what I can see they make up the stats as they go along.
 
This isn't true though. Compare these two ships, both non-engineered A-rated for combat:

A rated AspS: 28,895,990cr:
https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/asp...==..EweloBhBGA2EoFMCGBzANokMK6A=&bn=Combat AS

A rated DBX: 22,679,826cr:
https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/dia...Q..EweloBhBmSQUwIYHMA28QgIwV0A=&bn=Combat DBX

Seems like a bit of an "edge case" scenario to me.

More realistically, it's basically a case of needing to go to the next-higher grade of armour to make the DBX as tough as a an AspS, which reduces it's jump-range to within a couple of Ly of the AspS.

In my own case, I'm not sure what mod's I did but I had a DBX which I used for scavenging and indulging in any PvE combat that might involve and I replaced it with an AspS which has better armour and shields, more cargo space and a slightly higher jump range.

I'll grant you that the DBX does still come out marginally ahead in that sort of role, before engineering, and the DBX is a much, much, cheaper ship which can do pretty-much all the same things (with a lower cargo capacity) so the AspS probably isn't the "logical" choice but I know it can be preferable to a DBX in that role - IF cost isn't an issue.
 
... That's the entire problem though - there is no gameplay in E D for that role whatsoever, other than whatever is created by a player's own internal roleplay narrative. ...

Indeed.

Well, the fast traveling combat ship ("light", in the case of the current scout ships or "heavy" in the case of a hypothetical long rang Python or Vulture) would still be viable role. But the benefits are small enough, as pointed out in this thread.

That's why I still hope for a future implementation of a military career in ED. All sorts of interesting missions would be thinkable - including dedicated scout missions. If the 'S' ships would shine in these missions, that is.
With the imminent arrival of tge Thargoids, the chances are bigger than ever that this sort of game play is likely, thoug.

I am still optimistic! (My largest weakness, I guess) ...

--

@ Snarfbuckle:
Oh! Well then ...
FDev? Wouldn't it be nice? And so reasonable, too! :)
 
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A lot of the ships make little sense. Look at the Anaconda. The Diamondback Explorer still has odd stats. They should be made to a formula like the old Traveller RPG, so things made actual sense. But from what I can see they make up the stats as they go along.

I would have liked it more if they had based most of the attributes on pure stats.

I mean, the iCourier has more shields than the Adder, is the same hull mass and have a S2 shield compared to the Adders S3.
 
I would have liked it more if they had based most of the attributes on pure stats.

I mean, the iCourier has more shields than the Adder, is the same hull mass and have a S2 shield compared to the Adders S3.

I don't know if this is an awkward question but do sites like Coriolis and EDShipyard base their calculations on officially-sanctioned data or are they based on formulas derived from observed results?
In either case, are those formulas freely available or are they some kind of closely-guarded secret?

In either case, I'd love to see somebody put together a spreadsheet of ship stat's based purely on consistently applied formulae.
No doubt it'd reveal all sorts of hidden buffs and nerfs.
 

Deleted member 115407

D
It makes for one hell of a long-range passenger ship. Able to equip two passenger cabins and all of the necessary exlporer stuff (AFMU isn't necessary).

Drop in a really cold power plant and you never have to stop scooping. You could get even more range out of it if you dropped some weight on some of the modules and took smaller cabins.

https://eddp.co/u/5gUxXuy1
 
I think that a simple way to make the ship useful would be to add a class 6 internal slot and rename it to Asp Trader (or something similar). That way it would have more cargo capacity than T-6 while being combat capable, and would actually be better than AspX at something (8t more cargo space). And it would make much more sense that such a bulky ship with small core modules should be able to carry more cargo.

It would also make a good passenger transport or mining ship and could almost be considered a poor man's Python. And for these use cases its lower top speed or shorter jump range when fully loaded wouldn't be an issue at all.
 
Well, I discovered another slight problem the AspS has: Being a medium ship, encounters are rolled for medium size, which leaves the AspS outclassed most of the time. So if you are hauling anything at all, be prepared to jetisson or get shot dead, because you're to slow to run and too big and fragile a target to gun down Vulture wings and Dropships.
 
Well, I discovered another slight problem the AspS has: Being a medium ship, encounters are rolled for medium size, which leaves the AspS outclassed most of the time. So if you are hauling anything at all, be prepared to jetisson or get shot dead, because you're to slow to run and too big and fragile a target to gun down Vulture wings and Dropships.

Really?

Encounters are calculated by ship size? Why do my medium ships always get jumped by incompetent Eagles?

But if what you say is true then it is REALLY bad since it basically bad small ship stats crammed into a medium ship hull and gets the medium threat treatment.

At best one might perhaps make a cool runnings style smuggler with low heat but we have better ships for that and they require far less engineering to do the job well.
 
After the Thargoid cinematic, I forsee a potential issue, though:

One utility slot will definitely be occupied by one of these counter meassure devices.
However, the Asp Scout's meager two slots are already used by something I find essential: One grade A shield booster and one heat sink to counter SCB overheating.

That is, if Thargoid weapons are affected by human shields at all.
If they indeed bypass them, hull tanking with caustic protection might indeed be the way to go. Shield-strength affecting equipment might not be needed then for a dedicated anti-Thargoid fighter. (Just some basic stuff to survive human attacks.)

Anyway, after the trailer, I am serously in doubt, the AspS will be up to the challenge.
On the other hand - I guess, there will be smaller Thargoid vessels as well. Only because there were just "Interceptors" (not called so) and their Thargons in the '84 Elite Game doesn't mean, FDev hasn't increased their fleet size (in regard to their diversity) in Elite: Dangerous. If there is a Thargoid equivalent to an Eagel or a Cobra, the AspS still might have a chance ...
 
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