Newcomer / Intro Another basic Q so apols! PvE - do chaff & heatsinks even work against NPCs?

[SportyScribe]

Or am I better putting something else entirely in my Utility Mounts (not that in this lates ship loss I even had the presence of mind to drop chaff and/or a heatsink!

I have tried the 'Win the Interdiction Minigame' with some success... I have also tried the 'if you lose, throttle down to zero' - two lost ships and a couple of fights with NPCs cutting and running (but hve yet to try with chaff and heatsinks... will they make any difference?

 

[sinisalo]

Yes, they work, but I don't use them, aside from heatsinks in exploration ships. Chaff works against gimballed and turreted weapons. It does not affect fixed. I tend to prefer shield boosters over either of those, but blaze your own.

Speed is life and all of my ships can boost 500 minimum. This speed means submit-then-boost is a sure-fire way to avoid damage. Slower ships can benefit from more defensive options I reckon.

 

[Dommarraa]

Neither of them are Magic Shields of Invulnerability, but they CAN help.
Chaff wont work if they have Fixed Weapons
Heat Sink wont work well unless a few conditions are met, too many conditions for me to bother with.

That said, cant remember ever losing an Interdiction against an NPC, so I dont use them, much prefer a Shield Booster.

 

[d8veh]

I've been 100% successful over 4 years using the submit and boost method to deal with interdictions. The method is predicated on having a reasonably fast ship. I recommend a boost speed of at least 350m/s, so invest in thrusters and power distributor before anything else if you're doing anything that will get you interdicted, like missions, cargo, mining, passengers, etc. A boost speed less than 300m/s is pushing you into zone of risk.

The method is to travel with 4 pips to engines and 2 to shields, so that you're ready. When you get the interdiction tether, submit and immediately boost in the direction you're pointing. Don't turn to look at who's after you. As soon as you can, boost again, by which time your FSD will be cooled down. Engage it and keep boosting while it charges, then stick your finger up at the NPC.

I have found anecdotally that chaff works OK in normal fights, but has less effect against the NPCs that interdict you. It will always be better to fire off chaff than not.

Heatsinks break target lock when you get some distance from the enemy. Anecdotally, it's 500m, but it might depend on ship temperature as well. Whatever it is, your first boost will get you to a distance greater than that, so, in that case the heatsink is very effective to break target lock, which effectively disables gimballed and turreted weapons and, more importantly, the seeker missiles that the NPCs fire at you when your shields are down. I very rarely use heatsinks because I always have enough speed to get away, but I would definitely use them for any shieldless ship or any that has a boost speed less than 350m/s. The strategy is based on the principle that the damage form weapons drops off as distance increases. That first boost gets you enough distance to reduce the damage and the second boost will get you more or less clear of any damage.

In a small ship, heatsinks and silent running are very effective against real player gankers. Silent running is not so effective against NPCs once they have seen you. They can read your control inputs directly, so they always know where you are and where you're going.

 

[Screemonster]

Heatsinks break scans, making them a must for smugglers. Pop a sink 6km out and cruise yourself into the slot, pop a second when the first one runs out, and you'll never have to worry about fines again.

 

[SportyScribe]

I've been 100% successful over 4 years using the submit and boost method to deal with interdictions. The method is predicated on having a reasonably fast ship. I recommend a boost speed of at least 350m/s, so invest in thrusters and power distributor before anything else if you're doing anything that will get you interdicted, like missions, cargo, mining, passengers, etc. A boost speed less than 300m/s is pushing you into zone of risk.

The method is to travel with 4 pips to engines and 2 to shields, so that you're ready. When you get the interdiction tether, submit and immediately boost in the direction you're pointing. Don't turn to look at who's after you. As soon as you can, boost again, by which time your FSD will be cooled down. Engage it and keep boosting while it charges, then stick your finger up at the NPC.

I have found anecdotally that chaff works OK in normal fights, but has less effect against the NPCs that interdict you. It will always be better to fire off chaff than not.

Heatsinks break target lock when you get some distance from the enemy. Anecdotally, it's 500m, but it might depend on ship temperature as well. Whatever it is, your first boost will get you to a distance greater than that, so, in that case the heatsink is very effective to break target lock, which effectively disables gimballed and turreted weapons and, more importantly, the seeker missiles that the NPCs fire at you when your shields are down. I very rarely use heatsinks because I always have enough speed to get away, but I would definitely use them for any shieldless ship or any that has a boost speed less than 350m/s. The strategy is based on the principle that the damage form weapons drops off as distance increases. That first boost gets you enough distance to reduce the damage and the second boost will get you more or less clear of any damage.

In a small ship, heatsinks and silent running are very effective against real player gankers. Silent running is not so effective against NPCs once they have seen you. They can read your control inputs directly, so they always know where you are and where you're going.

Thanks for the detailed answer
A rated Thrusters, Power Plant and Distributer but sitting at around 290m/s - that ship only had a D shield. Now is an A-rated one and also have a shield booster.
Always travel with 4 ENG, 2 SYS and got off two boosts but had already pretty much lost shields and was right down to hull as NPC hit me as I had just jumped into a system and was aligning to next jump. I was still right up against the sun and in the fumble of trying to target somewhere else to jump, the end came quick.
Second time it has been something like this with a virtually fully laden ship and literally having just jumped in.

Normally this Asp has managed to evade interdiction I would now say 99% of the time...

It happens - I managed to evade an interdiction after returning for another go at the rocks... so...I just put it down to still lacking the experience to swap around everything all at once. I am sure that will come.

 

[aRJay]

As has been said chaff only works against gimbals and turrets, it also works best on smaller ships and at a distance, close enough and with a big enough target the randomness chaff causes in the weapons isn’t enough to cause them to miss.

I was watching this from the shooting side against an NPC Python when he wasn’t chaffing my weapons were hitting just one spot but with his size and how close I was when he did chaff a lot of the shots were still hitting all over his ship.

 

[SportyScribe]

I've been 100% successful over 4 years using the submit and boost method to deal with interdictions. The method is predicated on having a reasonably fast ship. I recommend a boost speed of at least 350m/s, so invest in thrusters and power distributor before anything else if you're doing anything that will get you interdicted, like missions, cargo, mining, passengers, etc. A boost speed less than 300m/s is pushing you into zone of risk.

The method is to travel with 4 pips to engines and 2 to shields, so that you're ready. When you get the interdiction tether, submit and immediately boost in the direction you're pointing. Don't turn to look at who's after you. As soon as you can, boost again, by which time your FSD will be cooled down. Engage it and keep boosting while it charges, then stick your finger up at the NPC.

I have found anecdotally that chaff works OK in normal fights, but has less effect against the NPCs that interdict you. It will always be better to fire off chaff than not.

Heatsinks break target lock when you get some distance from the enemy. Anecdotally, it's 500m, but it might depend on ship temperature as well. Whatever it is, your first boost will get you to a distance greater than that, so, in that case the heatsink is very effective to break target lock, which effectively disables gimballed and turreted weapons and, more importantly, the seeker missiles that the NPCs fire at you when your shields are down. I very rarely use heatsinks because I always have enough speed to get away, but I would definitely use them for any shieldless ship or any that has a boost speed less than 350m/s. The strategy is based on the principle that the damage form weapons drops off as distance increases. That first boost gets you enough distance to reduce the damage and the second boost will get you more or less clear of any damage.

In a small ship, heatsinks and silent running are very effective against real player gankers. Silent running is not so effective against NPCs once they have seen you. They can read your control inputs directly, so they always know where you are and where you're going.

@d8veh Can I just ask... how are you getting ships this fast - does this rely on engineering? Any ship I have A rated/D rated for other components before even adding cargo, guns etc can't get close.

 

[Ashnak]

Engineering - and choosing the right ships helps. You won't get a T-9 to move even if you lit a nuclear weapon under her backside - a Viper, Dolphin or Krait Mk.II on the other hand...
All of those are (more or less) ships I'm currently flying.
The Viper is my specialist for planetary scan missions, the Dolphin is a racing build (I'm still collecting raw mats, I need some Selenium to push the thrusters and PD to grade 5), the Krait my go-to ship for everything (I've swapped out some optionals for 64 tons of cargo space and a fighter bay right now, don't need a scoop in a populated region - but she still feels like a shark in the kiddie pool against NPCs.).

 

[SportyScribe]

Engineering - and choosing the right ships helps. You won't get a T-9 to move even if you lit a nuclear weapon under her backside - a Viper, Dolphin or Krait Mk.II on the other hand...
All of those are (more or less) ships I'm currently flying.
The Viper is my specialist for planetary scan missions, the Dolphin is a racing build (I'm still collecting raw mats, I need some Selenium to push the thrusters and PD to grade 5), the Krait my go-to ship for everything (I've swapped out some optionals for 64 tons of cargo space and a fighter bay right now, don't need a scoop in a populated region - but she still feels like a shark in the kiddie pool against NPCs.).

Engineering is next on my list of things as well as figuring out how to land on planets! I guess I am lucky so far - just two ships lost in rapid circs, the rest of the time I can either evade if on the way to trade, or boost. A couple of times I have stopped and fought (when jumping back with no cargo) and a couple of times the sneaky gits have waked out of there when I have come close to killing them or, in one particularly spectacular mess of combat where I had obviously mucked up some setting or other, I eventually got rescued by security services.

My Asp had a boost speed of 394m/s and I got a couple in before being clobbered ... Interestingly the Cobra Mk III that was lost was a boost speed of 412 m/s but that was also a 3-day in fumbly mess so I fully grant that was probably a lot my fault!!!

Anyhoo..... back in the black at the weekend so plenty of goals to knock off still...

 

[d8veh]

@d8veh Can I just ask... how are you getting ships this fast - does this rely on engineering? Any ship I have A rated/D rated for other components before even adding cargo, guns etc can't get close.

That's a very good question. I always tell people that you have to choose a ship that's appropriate for the task in hand. If I'm going to run missions or deliver something, I choose a fast ship. The further you deviate from the ideal ship, the more chance you have of losing everything. A ship with a boost speed of 360m/s is more or less guaranteed to escape. Anything down to 300, you can say will probably escape. By the time you get down to 250, you might be saying, you've got an even chance, and at 200, you probably won't escape.

290m/s is risky unless you really know what you're doing. An unengineered T9 is a death trap unless you really tank it up. Good ships are T6, T7, Asp, Clipper, Cutter and Python if tanked a bit. You need full size A-rated thrusters and PD for all of them.

How did you make your Asp so slow? Even with A-rated thrusters, it should go over 300m/s.

 

[SportyScribe]

That's a very good question. I always tell people that you have to choose a ship that's appropriate for the task in hand. If I'm going to run missions or deliver something, I choose a fast ship. The further you deviate from the ideal ship, the more chance you have of losing everything. A ship with a boost speed of 360m/s is more or less guaranteed to escape. Anything down to 300, you can say will probably escape. By the time you get down to 250, you might be saying, you've got an even chance, and at 200, you probably won't escape.

290m/s is risky unless you really know what you're doing. Which ship was it? An unengineered T9 is a death trap unless you really tank it up. Good ships are T6, T7, Asp, Clipper, Cutter and Python if tanked a bit. You need full size A-rated thrusters and PD for all of them.

How did you make your Asp so slow? Even with A-rated thrusters, it should go over 300m/s.

Firstly my bad - I was looking at my standard speed, my boost speed of the Asp is 394m/s and I got a couple of boosts off but had taken so much damage so quickly and was right in front of the sun so it all became a bit of a panic. That same ship has evaded many an interdiction since I got it for mining at the start of this week - so happy to chalk this up to gaining experience. That's what it's all about, no?

Ah I have (not so?) fond memories when I first played five years ago of going Sidey - Haulers - Cobra and god they were like bricks.
This time around I went Sidey - Adder - Cobra Mk. III - Viper (for combat only), Asp (Mining/Trade)... next stop Python and then on to the engineers as that feels logical to be able to mine, trade and improve a decent ship. I can now also afford well enough to A-rate my Viper and get some more combat experience, because heaven's above I NEED that also!!! I keep the Adder as my Space Uber... and got interdicted in that with NO cargo and next to nothing else apart from A-rated mods!!!

Honestly I think a lot of this second ship-go-boom was me fumbling over changing groups and trying to find a place to jump out to... but having taken so much damage so early, and right in front of the sun, it was like a perfect sun-storm of disaster!!!
But at least now I am looking at the right bit of Coriolis!!!

 

[Para Handy]

..........
Ah I have (not so?) fond memories when I first played five years ago of going Sidey - Haulers - Cobra and god they were like bricks.
..............

I think your memory might be a bit wonky - back then the Cobra III was the fastest ship in the game.

 

[d8veh]

but having taken so much damage so early, and right in front of the sun, it was like a perfect sun-storm of disaster!!!
But at least now I am looking at the right bit of Coriolis!!!

That's another reason to use heatsinks while boosting. If they pull you out right next to the star, you overheat when either boosting or charging your FSD. A heatsink solves that.

The NPCs always send a message before interdicting, so you can prepare for the interdiction. Another technique to escape that still works if you get the message when very close to the star, like when scooping, is to rotate around until you point away from the star. Don't fly away, you need to stay close. Fire a heatsink or two if you start to overheat. The stupid NPCs fly behind you to get the angle for interdiction and fall into the star. Watch them on your radar. It's very funny.

 

[SportyScribe]

I think your memory might be a bit wonky - back then the Cobra III was the fastest ship in the game.

I mean the haulers were like bricks.

 

[SportyScribe]

That's another reason to use heatsinks while boosting. If they pull you out right next to the star, you overheat when either boosting or charging your FSD. A heatsink solves that.

The NPCs always send a message before interdicting, so you can prepare for the interdiction. Another technique to escape that still works if you get the message when very close to the star, like when scooping, is to rotate around until you point away from the star. Don't fly away, you need to stay close. Fire a heatsink or two if you start to overheat. The stupid NPCs fly behind you to get the angle for interdiction and fall into the star. Watch them on your radar. It's very funny.

I think I actually missed the first “I heard the rumors... I am glad I found you first” message... which is totally my fault... but I would love to watch one of the Fall into the star. I got your message... not at the PC at the mo,ent but I thought I had A-rated the PD... will get back to your message in a bit

 

[Ashnak]

I mean the haulers were like bricks.

You really should get into engineering this time round.

Coriolis EDCD Edition

A ship builder, outfitting and comparison tool for Elite Dangerous

s.orbis.zone

Or, even better, join us and fly a few Buckyball races.

 

[aRJay]

You really should get into engineering this time round.

Coriolis EDCD Edition

A ship builder, outfitting and comparison tool for Elite Dangerous

s.orbis.zone

Or, even better, join us and fly a few Buckyball races.

OP while I agree with both these suggestions you should be aware that buckyball builds are usually as insane as their racers that said it is a great way to pick up tips for how to speed up flight and docking times you just have to allow for more rebuys than normal.

You also mentioned getting a Python, when you do make sure you can A rate full sized thrusters and FSD at least otherwise you will find it somewhat disappointing to fly and fight in.

 

[SportyScribe]

You really should get into engineering this time round.

Coriolis EDCD Edition

A ship builder, outfitting and comparison tool for Elite Dangerous

s.orbis.zone

Or, even better, join us and fly a few Buckyball races.

I plan to get into engineering

 

[SportyScribe]

OP while I agree with both these suggestions you should be aware that buckyball builds are usually as insane as their racers that said it is a great way to pick up tips for how to speed up flight and docking times you just have to allow for more rebuys than normal.

You also mentioned getting a Python, when you do make sure you can A rate full sized thrusters and FSD at least otherwise you will find it somewhat disappointing to fly and fight in.

Yep spent a good long while getting the key core components A-rated ... should get some time in game today