General / Off-Topic Another van attack

For a long time when there are attacks in the United Kingdom, France, Germany and elsewhere, the press always says that it is the acts of unbalanced people, as to attenuate the gravity of the responsability. I think that they want to alleviate the islamist aspect (Religious, political and jihad) of the attacks to keep the crowds calm. Concerninf the governments, indeed, I am not sure that they are using this word.

I can't speak about the French or German press, but I honestly haven't seen the UK media (well, the BBC) refer to terrorists as unbalanced.

I agree with your reasoning however. As I said, claiming that a person who does something that we as society consider truly awful as 'unbalanced, mad' lets us feel that it is an isolated anomaly, not something that is likely to happen 'just because'.

I don't think that the media (or government) try to downplay the fact that this is religious intolerance and hatred, that would be extremely condescending, as it has been quite clear for over 15 years that there is a conflict between some extremist radicalized Islamic individuals and the west in general. This particular attack, whatever the reasoning behind it, sadly reinforces the antagonistic rhetoric of those extremists for those who might be sitting on the fence... Hatred breeds hatred.
 
I can't speak about the French or German press, but I honestly haven't seen the UK media (well, the BBC) refer to terrorists as unbalanced.

I don't remember the German press doing that either. It came up for the bombing in Ansbach, but certainly not for the attack on the christmas market nor for any attack in France, Belgium or the UK, afaik.
 

Javert

Volunteer Moderator
For reference, the UK spends some £100bn on payments to around 10 million people who don't work. This same group is also responsible for a significant fraction of health and social care spending.

What's more, these 10million keep being given more and more whilst hard working tax payers get less and less.

Who are these 10million who account for over 15% of government spending?

Pensioners

In contrast the the UK spends around £3bn on out of work benefits for some 1.5million people. That's 0.5% of the budget.

To put it in perspective, the proposed winter fuel reductions would have saved around £1.5bn, or 50% of the unemployment benefit budget.

The deficit (the difference between spending and tax revenues) is around £75bn a year.

You could cut every single unemployment benefit and not even move the needle on the deficit.

The unemployed are not the cause of the UKs problems.

I agree with you. However your quote on spending 15% of government spending on 10 million people is a bit ambiguous and could be taken out of context. My first thought on reading that it, 10 million people is about 15% of the population, so what's wrong with that.

That 15% is just the pensions I think - you then have to add in all the other stuff that they also benefit from, so the real % of government spending on those 10 million is much higher than 15%.

That said, I agree with your conclusion.
 
I don't remember the German press doing that either. It came up for the bombing in Ansbach, but certainly not for the attack on the christmas market nor for any attack in France, Belgium or the UK, afaik.

There was this as well, but my German is pretty terrible so I might have been mis-reading it.

EDIT:I don't think that was actually considered terror though, so maybe it doesn't count?

http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/just...er-taeter-wohl-psychisch-labil-a-1138118.html
 
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Yaffle

Volunteer Moderator
I don't remember the German press doing that either. It came up for the bombing in Ansbach, but certainly not for the attack on the christmas market nor for any attack in France, Belgium or the UK, afaik.

Out of interest what was written about the bombing of the Borussia Dortmund team bus?

There was this as well, but my German is pretty terrible so I might have been mis-reading it.

http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/just...er-taeter-wohl-psychisch-labil-a-1138118.html

In the picture - is the guy on the right The Edge who has lost a guitar?
 
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Out of interest what was written about the bombing of the Borussia Dortmund team bus?

A lot of speculation about three claims of responsibilty from the islamist, the far-left and the far right scenes until the suspect was arrested and greed identified as motivation.

Nothing about 'unbalance' or 'mental disability', just extreme disrespect for human life.

The whole thing would be pretty ridiculous if it hadn't been so dangerous. Dunno how much of the aftermath was reported in the UK. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borussia_Dortmund_team_bus_bombing

There was this as well, but my German is pretty terrible so I might have been mis-reading it.

EDIT:I don't think that was actually considered terror though, so maybe it doesn't count?

http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/just...er-taeter-wohl-psychisch-labil-a-1138118.html

You've not misread it. :)

But that's not considered terrorism.
 
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There was this as well, but my German is pretty terrible so I might have been mis-reading it.

EDIT:I don't think that was actually considered terror though, so maybe it doesn't count?

http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/just...er-taeter-wohl-psychisch-labil-a-1138118.html

Yes, that was a Yugoslavian asylum seeker who apparently had mental health issues, and the police / authorities did not categorize it as a terrorist (or hate) crime.

A quick google on it brings up various UK news reports, such as this one.
 
Certainly an unbalanced man who must be placed in a rest home and not pursued by the justice because he is probably not responsible for his acts

can't the same be said about any other suicide attacker?

just like them this guy left his home one morning desperate enough with his life to jump into a van with the intent of killing as many innocents as possible. whether their fantasies were fueled by isis rhetoric or regular racism and vengeance is indeed significant in the big picture, but is quite irrelevant in regard of their own personal situation or accountability.
 
I agree with you. However your quote on spending 15% of government spending on 10 million people is a bit ambiguous and could be taken out of context. My first thought on reading that it, 10 million people is about 15% of the population, so what's wrong with that.

That 15% is just the pensions I think - you then have to add in all the other stuff that they also benefit from, so the real % of government spending on those 10 million is much higher than 15%.

That said, I agree with your conclusion.

You are correct, i didn't have the figures for health and other spending for that age group to hand so rather than just make up a figure (which is the fashion these days) i just stuck to what I could support. :)
 
can't the same be said about any other suicide attacker?

just like them this guy left his home one morning desperate enough with his life to jump into a van with the intent of killing as many innocents as possible. whether their fantasies were fueled by isis rhetoric or regular racism and vengeance is indeed significant in the big picture, but is quite irrelevant in regard of their own personal situation or accountability.

I should find the article (Guardian, I think) with a breadown on how Islamic terrorism has changed.

The terrorist groups (those branded so in the West at least) used to be very military and disciplined in nature. The terror strikes were often intended to further territorial claims, or to hurt military enemies.

Now, in the age of ISIS, the "islamic terrorists" are violent, unstable men. ISIS gives them an outlet and a dubious "justification" for their anger and resentment, and they act out their violent fantasies, often with little support from the terrorist organisation.

It's the exact same type of people who commit far right terror.
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-40347813

You'd think that, if your dad hired out the van used in a terrorist attack, you'd keep a low profile. Maybe express shock and sorrow at being an inadvertent part of attempted mass murder.

Not tweeting "It's a shame they don't hire out steam rollers or tanks could have done a tidy job then" would be a good start.

What a pillock.

It's almost comical the father's statement:"I want to condemn in the strongest possible terms these ill-considered Twitter comments, which in no way reflect my own view or indeed those of anyone else in the family...."

Yeah, "nobody else in the family"......apart from your son who apparently is the source of those comments!

I wonder if the police will be looking much, much, much harder at the van hire company now?
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-40347813

You'd think that, if your dad hired out the van used in a terrorist attack, you'd keep a low profile. Maybe express shock and sorrow at being an inadvertent part of attempted mass murder.

Not tweeting "It's a shame they don't hire out steam rollers or tanks could have done a tidy job then" would be a good start.

What a pillock.

It's almost comical the father's statement:"I want to condemn in the strongest possible terms these ill-considered Twitter comments, which in no way reflect my own view or indeed those of anyone else in the family...."

Yeah, "nobody else in the family"......apart from your son who apparently is the source of those comments!

I wonder if the police will be looking much, much, much harder at the van hire company now?

I think that he's been arrested over that one this afternoon.

Not a good look.
 
And this evening again an islamist attack. The explosion tonight at a Brussels station "considered as a terrorist attack" declared the Belgian Federal Procurement Office. According to a witness, the author shouted "Allah Akbar"
 
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This is terrible but not unexpected. In this attackers head, he probably though he was doing the right thing, being good and just... in reference to what he believed.

Terror is breeding terror. Its been known this would happen as little has been done, and probably happen again :(

The person (don't want to call hi a 'man') probably doesn't understand that all Muslim are not terrorist... but had felt such frustration, that has boiled up in a small group he is part of, enough to give him the passion to attack >< that the worrying thing... that group will still be out there, and now active anti-Muslim groups are forming.

When it comes to calling it Islamophobia*2, that word is thrown around to much, means nothing now. When you look at the Qur’an (yet to read it all) its is indeed disturbing in places, if it's being followed to the letter... that's the problem, we don't know who is... But chances are, the victims of this attack where not*1.

any one right of center get called an Islamophobe... or racist, all the insult you can. when words aren't used in the right place, they lose all meaning.


*1) Muslims who follow the Qur’an to the letter are told not to settle in non major Islamic lands, and should move to such... unless enfeebled. (not me saying that, its in there teachings, not demanding they go back/leave/resettle... not may words)

also, an interesting article'The Problem is Islam, not Muslims'

This is where a huge problem lays... and Muslims living in the UK on whole are labeled as following Islam (by there own miss understanding and incorrect definitions). A lot of the teaching are not Muslims reading the Qur’an, but Muslims being preach too, preach just the good bits, in order too 'teach' that the word in the Qur’an is love and peace (just isn't, fact, the book is there, anyone can read it)

Yes, there does need to be more education on Islam, not just for non Muslims, but Muslims as well. There needs to be a separation of the two, this confusion breeds hate :(

Than what is this?

as is said when the is a Islamic terror attack, we are not to call all Muslims terrorist, let hope this works both ways...

Normally doesn't, e.g. The stabbing of a politician back in brexit. All was done to label brexiters as extremists >< and sure this will happen again, and be used to quell free speech, with no real care for the victims of this terror attack.


I'm sure i will get the usual backlash for posting in such a thread. So to save you the effort, you win.. i'm wrong


*2) A phobia is an irrational fear. This is where things get clouded. Islamic teaching dehumanize non believers and make them viable target...

Attack been done in the name of Islam (be it the case or not). This fear has not come out of no where. death have happens.... irrational fear?


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I worry my post will be removed/modded or even get a warning. All i have done is address important issue here, that have been raise in this thread. Before what i've said is judge, please go and study the Qur’an
 
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