General / Off-Topic Another van attack
- Thread starter Robin of Spiritwood
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And from where are you if I might ask ?
See Mate. Your not exactly being detailed there.
And I would like to look up some things on that.
If your from the US for example. I can tell you pretty fast that your Immigrants are treated even worse. Because in the USA it doesnt matter at all if your local or immigrant. The only thing determining how your treated is how much money you got.
And the less Money you got the more your treated like crap.
Welcome to the land of Freedom and Capitalism.
But as long as we dont know where your from. Its just an Rant by you with no Substance or Valid Information for us as we cant really check anything on that.
Erm Mate.
I merely Explained what I think you meant.
I never even mentioned anything of what you said nor did I fail to understand the example you have given.
I simply explained it because your mistake caused others to not understand your example and thus being unable to make the link that you tried to establish.
In any case, there are too many refugees and immigrants in Europe
Are there ?
See Mate.
Its pretty similar over here. People say Oh my God we are Overrun. Everywhere is Immigrants.
And my Honest Question is each time the same. "So? Where are they?"
Because when you Drive through the City you notice that you can Drive around and 99 out of 100 People you see are White without any Racial Features that would indicate an Immigration Backround.
Which is not that Surprising. Because the Children and Grandchildren of Immigrants which make up a large part of the Statistics which say Germany has alot of Immigrants. Have long Intengrated into German Culture and can hardly be told apart on the Street.
A Million Refugees Sounds much. But when you Realize that there is 80 Million People in Germany you notice its 1 Refugee for 80 Locals.
Edit:
Ok apparently its an interactive Statistics Picture. So if I copy it it just shows an Empty Statistic lol....
Germany has about 80% Germans.
12 of the remaining 20 Percent are from Europe.
Leaving only 8% of People that Immigrated from outside of Europe.
For the EU in total this looks pretty much the Same.
Out of the 500 Million Population. About 50 Million (10%) are Immigrants. Somewhat less than Half of which are from Other European Countries which are not in the EU.
We are nowhere close to being Overrun
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And from where are you if I might ask ?
See Mate. Your not exactly being detailed there.
And I would like to look up some things on that.
If your from the US for example. I can tell you pretty fast that your Immigrants are treated even worse. Because in the USA it doesnt matter at all if your local or immigrant. The only thing determining how your treated is how much money you got.
And the less Money you got the more your treated like crap.
Welcome to the land of Freedom and Capitalism.
But as long as we dont know where your from. Its just an Rant by you with no Substance or Valid Information for us as we cant really check anything on that.
Erm Mate.
I merely Explained what I think you meant.
I never even mentioned anything of what you said nor did I fail to understand the example you have given.
I simply explained it because your mistake caused others to not understand your example and thus being unable to make the link that you tried to establish.
Are there ?
See Mate.
Its pretty similar over here. People say Oh my God we are Overrun. Everywhere is Immigrants.
And my Honest Question is each time the same. "So? Where are they?"
Because when you Drive through the City you notice that you can Drive around and 99 out of 100 People you see are White without any Racial Features that would indicate an Immigration Backround.
Which is not that Surprising. Because the Children and Grandchildren of Immigrants which make up a large part of the Statistics which say Germany has alot of Immigrants. Have long Intengrated into German Culture and can hardly be told apart on the Street.
A Million Refugees Sounds much. But when you Realize that there is 80 Million People in Germany you notice its 1 Refugee for 80 Locals.
Edit:
Ok apparently its an interactive Statistics Picture. So if I copy it it just shows an Empty Statistic lol....
Germany has about 80% Germans.
12 of the remaining 20 Percent are from Europe.
Leaving only 8% of People that Immigrated from outside of Europe.
For the EU in total this looks pretty much the Same.
Out of the 500 Million Population. About 50 Million (10%) are Immigrants. Somewhat less than Half of which are from Other European Countries which are not in the EU.
We are nowhere close to being Overrun
Yes your figures are globally correct. But they are punctual. You do not take into account the increase for the years to come of immigration from countries outside the EU. In particular from Africa. You also forget the family groupings for those who arrive in the EU and remain there. Of course, there are also the births that these millions of young men will make. And you forget the illegal immigrants every day more numerous. And also the millions of illegal immigrants who live since years in the countries of the EU
Concerning the intra-EU immigration, it is not a problem if it is reasonable in quantity. Concerning the posted workers, it must be severely controlled and limited to avoid the social dumping
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Internal EU Immigration will always be Controlled.
Because its effectively serving as an Vent for the Economy.
If Jobs dont pay good enough People run away. Meaning that Companies cant abuse their Workers because they then would no longer find new Workers.
If Jobs get too expensive People will come running. Meaning that Companies can press down the Salaries.
Thats the entire reason why the EU has Open Borders as an Condition for Free Trade.
For the same Reason there is Common Standards and Laws on Worker and Securitiy Conditions, Quality etc.
And the Figures are Correct and are including the past.
New Immigrants will come of course. But old ones also dissappear. Either by being absorbed into Local Culture or by Isolating themselves and usually moving away because they have no Future Perspectives if they dont Integrate.
I told you in the past already didnt I ?
Germany has been through this already.
After WW2 Germany hardly had any Workforce left. After all anyone and everyone fit for Service was sent to Frontlines.
So Germany opened Borders for Mass Immigration.
Alot of Turks came in.
They are now in 3rd to 4th Generation. And you often dont even realize it.
1st Generation is usually very reluctant to Integrate.
2nd Generation Integrates but stays one Foot out. You notice on their Language and on some Quirks in the Cultural behavior.
3rd Generation is often so Integreated that the only thing you can tell them apart is their Racial Features given they kept German Blood out of their Family up to this Point.
And with each Generation this gets less.
Humanities Evolution works by Mixing its Blood over and over keeping the Best.
The Best being Decided by what Blood is available the most because this ultimately sets through.
Now in case Immigration this has an Side Effect.
Because if you got 80% of one Side and 20% of the other. Than the 80% will slowly but surely Mix and Absorb the 20%
And due to how Human Evolution works that means that that the bigger Part will usually break through meaning that the 20% get reduced with each Generation. Until they Dissappear.
Of course due to New Immigration this wont happen.
But they wont be taking over either.
In Human Nature the Bigger Group will always Eat up the Smaller Group. Not the other way around.
Thats why the Idea that in 20 years Europe would be Dominated by Muslim cause they have more Children wont happen.
Because that would Require that both sides stay entirely to themselves. Which just wont happen.
Enclaves only work as long as they are an very small and isolated group.
The bigger they get the more they Mix and Integrate into Local Culture.
This has Happened throughout History.
Thats why Americans Consider themselves American despite their Ancestors being a Wild Mix of Europeans.
Thats why you over there in France consider yourself French when you are pretty much sharing the same Ancestors as us in Germany.
After 5-10 Generations you can hardly tell apart if someones Ancestors were Immigrants or not.
After more than 10 Generation you wont be able to tell unless your using an Genetics Test to somehow extract the 1-2% of the Blood which prove you came from somewhere else....
When you use words like "social dumping" to describe other human it sounds thoroughly nasty.
I think he means this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_dumping i.e. Using cheaper migrant labour to under it local labour.
It's a fair enough concern but I'm not sure one that is applicable to internal EU migration.
By definition social dumping via internal migration means bringing foreign (in the EU case eastern eu) workers to work in richer countries because they are cheaper.
However as they are now working in the richer country the workers rights protections (environment, h&S, pensions, minimum wage etc) of the richer country will apply, un like the other type of social dumping where the job is exported rather than the worker imported.
As long as the host country protects it's EU workers rights as well as their own workers rights, there should be no issues.
In the UK's case the issue is as much the seasonal nature of the work combined with the low labour supply which makes EU migration attractive.
Remember that importing labour to cover for short term shortages is a much better way for countries to handle he problem as when the jobs go, the workers tend to go to other countries where there are jobs, thus relieving the host country of the unemployment burden.
Social dumping in the correct sense is not an issue for EU internal migration.
Well this is the reality. You think the bosses are philanthropists ?
Yes exactly. And the legal minimum wage ...
Wont Work.
Thats what I said above already.
Immigration is Free. People can go where they want.
This results in Companies who dont offer good enough wages simply running out of Manpower sooner or later.
Because People will simply go to the Countries where they get bigger Wages.
Wages too high = People come to that Country
Wages too low = People leave that Country
Why do you think the Hardliner Capitalists in the Tory Faction want out of the EU ??
The bigger the Hurdles for People to leave for another Country. The better you can Cut down on Wages and Worker Rights without People running away.
The problem is the social dumping between an indigenous and an immigrant. For a job with equal skill, the boss will mostly choose the immigrant for the lowest wage. The minimum legal salary may be the lowest salary. Thus, legal minimum wage or not, there is social dumping in all cases between an indigenous and a migrant
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right I've calmed down enough to post a bit more, I'm not going to go into too many details of my life, but I'm from the UK, I'm disabled, my dad was disabled and my family history is of poor working class. This class has been crapped on for generations by the Rich. The Rich conservative right has NEVER EVER given a damn about us and because we're white we can't play any "race" card to get help from the Lefties so no one cares. Just as things started to improve for the white working class (after WW2) funnily enough coincided with the beginnings of mass immigration which meant the measly slice of the countries wealth that trickle down to the working class was further reduced by the poor migrant workforce brought in.
And now we have the white poor in the UK constantly derided and slagged off by both sides of the political spectrum...we're lazy and work shy, uneducated and ignorant, racist and xenophobic. No-one cares about the derision, in fact most media outlets play into it.
Bottom line is I HATE the left AND I HATE the Right. Both sides can go and sodding well do one. The only difference is the Right doesn't hide it's flaws, the Left however are sanctimonious hypocrites and right now that makes 'em worse. The "inequality" of what lefties care about is what is driving many to the right wing....even I someone who has despised the Rich Conservative Right almost considered voting for them in the last election, my in laws did, but my wife and I didn't bother voting. The way the left has abandoned equality and abandoned the poor white in the UK has left a VERY bitter taste in my mouth as I was a life long Labour supporter....not any more.
These are my last words in any political discussion on the forums and I'm going to contact Brett and suggest these forums ban any political discussion as it often fosters negative emotions, this is a forum about a game we all love and that's what it should be about IMO.
And now we have the white poor in the UK constantly derided and slagged off by both sides of the political spectrum...we're lazy and work shy, uneducated and ignorant, racist and xenophobic. No-one cares about the derision, in fact most media outlets play into it.
Bottom line is I HATE the left AND I HATE the Right. Both sides can go and sodding well do one. The only difference is the Right doesn't hide it's flaws, the Left however are sanctimonious hypocrites and right now that makes 'em worse. The "inequality" of what lefties care about is what is driving many to the right wing....even I someone who has despised the Rich Conservative Right almost considered voting for them in the last election, my in laws did, but my wife and I didn't bother voting. The way the left has abandoned equality and abandoned the poor white in the UK has left a VERY bitter taste in my mouth as I was a life long Labour supporter....not any more.
These are my last words in any political discussion on the forums and I'm going to contact Brett and suggest these forums ban any political discussion as it often fosters negative emotions, this is a forum about a game we all love and that's what it should be about IMO.
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Thats only a Problem when you prevent Integration.
Wage Dumping happens when Immigrants are at the mercy of Companies because they have no perspective in the state they immigrated too.
As such its only a problem when you try to prevent immigration.
Because then the People Immigrating anyways end up in vulnearble positions where despite being skilled they end up with very low wages because they have no way to demand their rights.
When Immigration is Open and Legal. Thus Immigrants having a perspective for an actual life. They will not dump the wages. Because they are not in a vulnerable position where they can be abused to this.
1.
That would Surprise me to be Honest.
My Condolence for your losses and hardships.
But I fear your Hatred is Directed at the wrong People.
Cause just so you know.
Immigrants have it way harder to get Social Welfare and Healthcare.
So you having trouble with that is Shameful indeed.
But if you really believe that the Immigrants would get more than you. I fear your working right into the hands of exactly these Rich People which you mentioned there.
2.
I dont remember the "Poor White Workforce" being Mistreated near as badly as the Poor Immigrant Workforce to be honest.
Same as above.
I think your Directing your Hatred on the wrong People there.
Your basicly Angry at the other Gladiator thrown into the Arena.
The ones you should be Angry at is the guys sitting up in the Ranks raking in the Riches from both of your miseries.
3.
EEERM.
Well Mate.
No Offense Intended.
Seriously not.
But if with this kind of Statements your Surprised that People would consider you Racist, Xenophobic etc etc etc
Than maybe you should think about that for a minute.
You see. If you constantly talk about how you hate all the Carebears and PvE Whiners. And how you think they should remove Solo etc and Force Open so People cant avoid PvP.
Then People will assume your PvPer and likely a Ganker or Pirate.
And this is no different in reality either.
Alone your statement above about the "Poor White People" shows an incredible Racist view on the World.
Because you did not even bother saying Immigrant or Local Populace or something.
You Especially went out of your way to say "White People" which is pretty much like raising a 5m high Banner that states "Hello I am Racist and to me People that dont have the same Skin Color as me are Clearly not Humans"
Same for the Statement after this.
""
These are my last words in any political discussion on the forums and I'm going to contact Brett and suggest these forums ban any political discussion as it often fosters negative emotions, this is a forum about a game we all love and that's what it should be about IMO.
""
This Statement effectively says.
You are not willing to participate in any sort of Peaceful Discussion.
You think your Right and you dont give a crab about others or their opinions.
Because you dont like it. You want it Prohibited.
So much for Freedom.
In short this Statement tells to others. "I am not interested in discussion. I want my will to be Law and whatever I say is Right and everything else is prohibited. Anything I dont consider good should be banned"
Its an very obvious attempt to Silence any Opinion concurrent to yours.
So with Statements like this.
I am not very Surprised that People would consider you Right Wing, Racist, Xenophobe etc etc
Finally.
This Forum is allowing the Freedom of Speech.
As such it is allowing Political Discussions as well
An Old and very True Statement i heard once.
Silencing other Opinions. Does not Prove your Right.
It Proves that your Scared of others Hearing what other Opinions are there besides yours.
Frontier apparently understands that. Thats why they try to keep as open as Possible.
And I am Certain.
That Brett will continue with this in the Future.
Greetz
Ps. I am not sure we really saw the last of you.
But good luck in Life and Game anyways.
1. You hate the left even though Corbyn is literally the only hope that poor people have. (any race).
2. you want to get these discussions banned because you don't like them.
My question is simple, why are you on this thread ?
I do not agree. Many immigrants know where they come from, and even if they are regularized and integrated, they will more easily accept a work at the legal minimum wage. Often they are people who live together and pool their resources. The family spirit is very developed in these people. I see it in France with the Turks, the Africans, Asians (vietnam, laos, chinese, cambodia ...) who accept low-paid jobs more easily than the natives
This i think is true, in fact it's fairly obvious, and it's the best argument against immigration from a left wing perspective.
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In France even regularized and "integrated", many immigrants live in large families. Even several families in a house. Moreover, there is a solidarity in the neighborhoods in these communities. We indigenous peoples, are individualists and family values / solidarity are much less present. This difference between immigrants and us allows to the immigrants to accept lower paid jobs
Rarely to be Honest.
You can see this in Germany.
Sure some of them Accept it when they First Arrive.
But they rarely stick to it very long. And for Companies its Expensive to keep Hiring new People over and over.
Its true they do alot of work which others dont want to do at all for this Salary.
But thats Jobs which are usually easy to get and which dont offer high Salaries regardless of there being immigrants because they offer no profit if hiring above that Salary.
Its one of the Big Misunderstanding very often made.
When you see that guy Cleaning Company Floors for Minimum Wages.
Somehow People tend to think oh hes dumping the Salaries on that cause he works for minimum wages.
No British Guy would work for that Wage.
Which is true. Hardly any British People work for that.
But you make a fatal failure here.
Because this is one of the Jobs where the Company if it does not get to hire someone at minimum wage they wont hire anyone.
Because they would make no profit if they did.
Immigrants often Soak up such Jobs.
And Experience has Shown. That if you Remove Immigrants from the Equation.
These Jobs dont start Paying Better. They just Disappear.
I do not agree with everything. There is an unbelievable amount of regularized and "integrated" immigrants who accept skilled jobs for low salaries. Especially in our time with the economic crisis and mass unemployment. I myself saw French engineers, of origin Moroccan, Indian, Algerian etc ... to be analyst programmer on databases, or Web developer or network technician for the legal minimum wage. In addition, all these people did not count unpaid overtime. I do not even speak of office workers and skilled manual workers
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Thats not entirely True either.
So you know.
Salaries of the Jobs you mentioned have an incredible wide tolerance.
And the Biggest Indicator for how much you get. Is your Experience.
Now something that is true. Is that Immigrated Engineers with alot of Experience often get Hired with a much lower Salary.
But thats Temporary and usually reasoned with them not being Integrated yet.
Of course this is partially an hoax of the Company to get an Experienced Engineer Cheaper.
Often Paying him only about as much as an Fresh from the Academy Engineer would get.
But this usually does not hold long and its a Fact that due to Language and Education Differences Hiring Engineers like this is often a Risk.
After all the Standards etc of other Countries especially less developed Countries are often Shaky.
Meaning that you might draw a dud.
However. It usually takes only a short time before they get full Wages. Because as soon as they have proven themselves they no longer have this pressure and thus are either increased in their Wages or Work somewhere else.