Oh dear...
Proof for two claims now required, surely?
(you are aware that making this allegation is going to reduce the relevance of your diatribe?)
Proposal Discussion Anti Botting Agreement Idea 3.1 Player incentivised, VR compatible in-station "not-a-literal-Captcha"
- Thread starter Jane Turner
- Start date
Proof for two claims now required, surely?
(you are aware that making this allegation is going to reduce the relevance of your diatribe?)
One other point of issue that some truth seekers are looking for is evidence of WIDESPREAD use of bots.
There is clearly evidence that automated scripts exist but is there evidence that said scripts are multiplied many hundreds of times and are a problem to everyone?
I believe that is sticking point for some people in this thread.
Given the number of groups that have said it is an issue to them it seems the forum users objecting here are in the minority.
One thing I'm curious about is the impact the Bots have had. So rather than focus on the quantity, what is the Quality of the Bots? Just how many systems have they flipped or denied to groups?
Is the Alliance smaller as a result? Is Ci struggling to advance because of Bots?
Are single player factions constantly thwarted by armies of Ai Commanders and quitting the game ?
There is clearly evidence that automated scripts exist but is there evidence that said scripts are multiplied many hundreds of times and are a problem to everyone?
I believe that is sticking point for some people in this thread.
Given the number of groups that have said it is an issue to them it seems the forum users objecting here are in the minority.
One thing I'm curious about is the impact the Bots have had. So rather than focus on the quantity, what is the Quality of the Bots? Just how many systems have they flipped or denied to groups?
Is the Alliance smaller as a result? Is Ci struggling to advance because of Bots?
Are single player factions constantly thwarted by armies of Ai Commanders and quitting the game ?
surely.... surely.... the simplest thing to do is request a random button combination input while requesting docking with auto dock computer,, otherwise docking is denied. (or better still the airlock blows you up)
problem goes away overnight, and everyone not using an autodock is unaffected.
You could take us as an example from last year. A 10 month campaign of non-stop BGS attacks with no communication and some of the flight logs we saw showed examples of players running missions for what was, in my opinion, an unreasonable amount of time- something like 24h in some cases.
Were they bots or commited players? I'm not going to say it's impossible for a player to pull an all-nighter. That's the issue for me, I'm not accusing a player group of cheating or using bots without evidence when there's another explanation.
This is without looking at the behaviour of gaming addicts which potentially would seem really odd to the rest of us.
Information should be gathered and submitted to FDev, yes. A change to missions solely to counter botting seems excessive though.
WOW, that is some compelling stuff, about self righteousness that you cannot make mistakes or do not understand things you are not supposed to now how it actually works...
So how about we do it this way then...
You are a cheater and botter, my collection of data tells me that is the likely conclusion, suyre there are some irregularities of the data collected, but there are only one conclusion, you are C L E A R L Y, a cheater and botter. And I do not have to prove anything here, as that according to you, is not how things work.
Dont you see how ridiculous this turns out to be if this is the way we are just supposed to just believe any allegations without compelling data to support it?
Are you the jury?Oh dear...
Proof for two claims now required, surely?
(you are aware that making this allegation is going to reduce the relevance of your diatribe?)
Do you work for Frontier?
Jane Turner
Volunteer Moderator
We are only marginally affected by possible botting. Not unexpectedly we have attracted the attention of the accounts highlighted in the original reports who are not being less subtle about what they are doing and the "usual suspects" are out in force now complete with their usual trolling ship names. Our strategy is to tie them up with as little effort as possible and give FD something to look at. We are coming up to 12 weeks this time of what is in effect guerilla warfare. We spent around 6 months in 2018 in the cross-hairs as the same accounts went after Grom's triggers [Grom was placed directly on top of our main bubble after EGP won the dangerous games]. Then we knew [a lot] more about how diminishing returns than the alleged botter so we were able to cling on by our fingernails in all but 2 systems, which we regained quickly after he moved onto DVC. Of course one of the downsides of sharing as much knowledge as we can to anyone who asks, is that the playing field is a lot more even.
That 12 main accounts and some apparent baby bots, could take out EG Pilots, who quit the game rather than negotiate, is an indication of what damage they can do.- if you recall how effortlessly EGP won the dangerous games. We are never more than 20 and usually only 8 active BGS players, but DVC are a massive and focussed player group - they were helpless in the face of an attack and I think lost 13 systems [I think many of these were retreats while in control]. I know of another group that put more than 200 players up against them and failed to make headway before they negotiated.
No, I'm just your average Joe who hears the accusation of proliferation of CHEATS and asks for a source...
Good histrionics though, 100%
I am pleased that you are switching to their line.
They are asking for more support from Frontier by proposing.
Better to propose than ignore the problem.
Don't you think?
Anyway, I'm glad we finally came to the same conclusion.
Sooner or later Frontier will address the problem.
The more people who say they want to play the game honestly and point out some issues, the better it will be for the community.
You and me have nothing to lose if the game improves and players are better protected.
Two thread have arisen from them with some evidence and this recent post https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threa...ion-not-a-literal-captcha.564659/post-8941278No, I'm just your average Joe who hears the accusation of proliferation of CHEATS and asks for a source...
Good histrionics though, 100%
I guess beyond the post where I provided the BOT movie I can't give since none of us have the data that Frontier has but let's see the effects.
It can't be explained any better than that.
You have to have faith from time to time in those who try as they are doing to make things better.
Would you have a problem with Frontier realising through their actions on the forum that there are indeed players, many or few, who are using cheats and bots?
I think it's enough to answer that statement without laughing at the actions of others. In addition, it seems to me that there has been the utmost respect on their part and mine.
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i see this thread has developed
I've seen the video, and while agree it's unusual, I don't agree it proves it's bots.
re: cheats/cheating .... there are some who'd argue that using 3rd party sites and tools like EDDB is cheating, and to be fair, they would not be wrong ... in a way.
I am against the use of bots, but I'm also against penalising legitimate players and unfounded accusations. I think Frontier are also against those things too. If you (or anyone) is not happy with Frontier's lack of action, you are of course free to make a complaint, politely of course, but it is not our place to come up with solutions to a problem even the OP of this threads states "We are only marginally affected by possible botting". (post #448) leave that to Frontier, after you have provided evidence to support your complaint.
Jane Turner
Volunteer Moderator
I am pleased that you are switching to their line.
They are asking for more support from Frontier by proposing.
Better to propose than ignore the problem.
Don't you think?
Anyway, I'm glad we finally came to the same conclusion.
Sooner or later Frontier will address the problem.
The more people who say they want to play the game honestly and point out some issues, the better it will be for the community.
You and me have nothing to lose if the game improves and players are better protected.
I am very worried about any game changes that is proposed to fix a problem that we are lacking any compelling evidence that it is a big enough problem that needs addressing.
Changes that most likely is going to negative affect our gameplay experience... just look at all the suggestions on what they have thrown out in this thread. if those suggestions is at the same level that their information about how prevalent the problem is, then we all should be quite worried about this entire issue. Since the OP Jane Turner have repeatedly endorsed several of these suggestions as "good" and that she will even add those to the OP, and tater later have to change her mind, once some arguments about why those are bad suggestion, like the one where a suggestion was to have medical records for opt out of the anti-botting measure..
I have not seen any data that collaborate that accusation of botting have been reported FDev with a follow up that thre have been a noticed changed on he evens that was reported, ie that FDev have acted on the report and dealt with the allegations of foul play.
I am not switching anything, I am still firmly in the camp of, YOU NEED TO PROVE YOUR ACCUSATIONS with COMPELLING EVIDENCE, if that is not done, you are all cheaters and botters, and are just trying to deflect your shady business here ...
Don't worry 
Seriously, what is your problem? I didn't make the two open threads.
I wrote my idea.
You are continuing to reply to me by pointing me to write to support.
I think their posts have a much broader purpose.
I wrote my idea.
You are continuing to reply to me by pointing me to write to support.
I think their posts have a much broader purpose.
Seriously, what is your problem? I didn't make the two open threads.
I wrote my idea.
You are continuing to reply to me by pointing me to write to support.
I think their posts have a much broader purpose.
Post 1: Bots are a problem
Post 2: proof please
Post 3: I cant because forum rules forbid it.
Post 4: Bots are a problem
Post 5: proof please
And repeat....
Yes I can see the broad purpose is to induce narcolepsy.
Meanwhile Frontier Support awaits any and all reports of botting.
Thing is: these "bots" are easily disproven. Fdev will ignore this, because there are no bots used in those attacks. And it will be very easy to prove that to Fdev should they ever investigate this.
Now what does this make this ABA? Pure hypocrisy, especially since those crying the loudest are actively using bots for planning and the surveillance of players.
Now what does this make this ABA? Pure hypocrisy, especially since those crying the loudest are actively using bots for planning and the surveillance of players.
So that's three threads now on the exact same issue.
The first thread was locked by Ian Phillips because the official line is to contact Frontier.
This thread has had constant requests to prove it's a widespread issue (no-one is denying the existence of bots)
And now a third thread to continue the discussion in the hopes the sceptics in this thread don't go to the new thread.