Any grind, is in your mind.

[shadragon]

As I climb onto my soap box, I know I'm going to offend some people, but I have to be a little cruel to be kind. I've hauled on my fire-proof britches and I'm gonna say it anyway.

I see the word "grind" daily, multiple times a day, in these forums. If you find the game to be a grind, it isn't the game, it's you. It's either impatience on your part, or you feel the need to have the largest ships with the best components, NOW. You think having them will make your gaming experience better in some way. We've seen the forum posts about people going from a Sidey to an Anaconda in a weekend and I really have to shake my head and ask why someone feels the need to do something like that?

Elite: Dangerous can't be won; there is no end game. It's not like other games out there where you get a high score when you get the 'GAME OVER' banner. You never finish Elite, you can only exist in the game universe. Once you're in the "best" ship, fully upgraded through Engineers, where do you go from there? Once you have seventeen billion in the bank, what's next? Why the rush? Elite is not a game measured in hours spent playing. It is a game where people spend hundreds, if not thousands, of hours playing. I've never been in an Anaconda (outside of Beta). I've reset one of my CMDR's four times now. Some long-term players do have Condas and Corvettes, BUT rushing into a top end ship, without knowing how to fly or fight it will eventually result in tears.

It's time for a long hard look in a mirror. If you truly see Elite as a grind rather than as a long term experience, then you are doing it wrong. Elite is either a game you are unsuited for, or one you are not prepared to play properly. If you play Elite like DOOM, Stellaris, Fallout or any of the other traditional games, then you will be disappointed. Elite isn't one of those. There's no final boss fight or fade-to-black cut-scene. I hate to be the one to tell you, but even with a fully Engineered A-rated Corvette you're still an insignificant speck in the galaxy. Such is the scale of this amazing simulation.

I've got 280'ish games on Steam alone. I love some, like others and hate a few. I don't play the ones I don't like at all, because I recognize that they are not right for me. Just because you bought Elite does not mean it will automatically fulfill all your hopes, dreams and desires. I wouldn't expect it to change to meet your expectations either. In fact, your skewed expectations are probably what's causing your grief in game.

Elite presents several career options you can drop in or out of anytime. However, while this is seen as a welcome addition by some, others take a more pessimistic approach.

Trading - "I don't want to do that."

Mining - "I don't want to do that."

Exploration - "I don't want to do that."

Piracy - "I don't want to do that."

Missions - "I don't want to do that."

Smuggling - "I don't want to do that, unless I can make 50 mil an hour from Sothis to make it worth my time."

None of the above is the games fault.

Elite players, who play long term, recognize that the journey is more important than the destination. Yes, you pick up things to improve your position, but most will come your way as you just play the game. The one or two things that don't, you can focus on over time, rather than bopping all over core space in a frenzy to get everything in a rush. Take your time and it's fun rather than a grind. I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say an Elite player with 1,000 hours in the game will have as much fun in an E-rated Sidey as an A-rated FDL. Elite isn't about what you have, nor is it about what you gain. If you don't (or can't) see that, then Elite simply may not be the game for you. Elite is as much about your state of mind as it is actual game play. Sometimes those two things don't fit.

Any grind, is in your mind.

 

[Volimar]

Free your mind...

 

[MDHansen]

Well said [up]

 

[Ashnak]

Repped - although I'm afraid you, like many others before you, are speaking to two kinds of people:

- those who already realized what you're saying some time ago
- those who don't want to change their perspective and keep on ranting ("There are none so blind...")

There's a small minority of people who might be willing to see your point while being "caught in the grind". To those: stop worrying about goals in the game. You can't reach them all.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Agree in every way.

 

[Shar]

The difference between me and you shadragon is you had the paitence to type this out. Far too many players trying to imagine elite as something it's not. But there are plenty of that 1.5 million copies sold that apprieciate it for what it is. rep.
As soon as i see the word grind in a post i stop reading as it instantly tells me this person has lost perspective if they ever had any to begin with. there I'll share the fallout with you.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Still not 100% sure what grind means. If it means doing repetitive tasks for some time, there is grind in ED. Of course there is. The thing is, as long as that effort gets rewarded and is worth it.

When I am travelling 10s of thousands of lightyears, I do so because I really really want to get somewhere because of reasons. I know what grind lies ahead of me and I know what I have to do to get there. So I might be grinding hops for some time, but the reward is the destination. And I knew beforehand I'd be grinding those hops.

Where I do understand the complaints, it's when RNG rears it's ugly head. Then you're signing up for an amount of grind, destination unknown. You're putting lots of effort in a roll of a dice. And being an explorer I can smugly go: well, then don't do engineering, but the explorer's advantage is that it isn't a competitive sport.

 

[Kellan Fell]

I've got to say, I agree wholeheartedly with this, and it's nice to see the sentiments spelled out that way. I've been here since Premium Beta, and I find my playing style changes to suite my moods. If I'm in the mood to achieve a given goal, then I will work towards that and accept the "grind", as you say, I have chosen to play in this way, so I can't really complain about it. Currently I'm working on my Trader Rank (only 46% left to make Elite) and my Imperial rank, so I'm running missions between stations in Aditi and the outlying systems, with the occassional trip back to the bubble for the big payers It's slower than Sothis, but more interesting...
Some days I can't be bothered, so I sdon't log in, other days I'll smash it for hours at a stretch. Then come the breaks where I'm sick of missions and all they entail, on those days I'll head back to Conway and swap out for some Bounty Hunting in my FdL or go mining in the Python.

Because I don't really have a plan, I don't really feel like I'm grinding, and when it does begin to feel like a grind, then I swap to doing something else - or even playing another game. I took a 2 month break from Elite at one point to play XCom 2 so I could break up the game.

Like you said, it's not a game you can "win", so there's no real rush to achieve anything. Ultimately I'd like a Cutter, but I can accept that may well be a year away at the rate I play. Sure I could do it in a weekend, but then that would be "grinding", I'd rather "potter" and achieve it when it happens.

 

[Shar]

Still not 100% sure what grind means. If it means doing repetitive tasks for some time, there is grind in ED. Of course there is. The thing is, as long as that effort gets rewarded and is worth it.

When I am travelling 10s of thousands of lightyears, I do so because I really really want to get somewhere because of reasons. I know what grind lies ahead of me and I know what I have to do to get there. So I might be grinding hops for some time, but the reward is the destination. And I knew beforehand I'd be grinding those hops.

Where I do understand the complaints, it's when RNG rears it's ugly head. Then you're signing up for an amount of grind, destination unknown. You're putting lots of effort in a roll of a dice. And being an explorer I can smugly go: well, then don't do engineering, but the explorer's advantage is that it isn't a competitive sport.

It means "Hard dull work" and if thats what you find in a game you should not be playing it.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Still not 100% sure what grind means. If it means doing repetitive tasks for some time, there is grind in ED. Of course there is. The thing is, as long as that effort gets rewarded and is worth it.

When I am travelling 10s of thousands of lightyears, I do so because I really really want to get somewhere because of reasons. I know what grind lies ahead of me and I know what I have to do to get there. So I might be grinding hops for some time, but the reward is the destination. And I knew beforehand I'd be grinding those hops.

Where I do understand the complaints, it's when RNG rears it's ugly head. Then you're signing up for an amount of grind, destination unknown. You're putting lots of effort in a roll of a dice. And being an explorer I can smugly go: well, then don't do engineering, but the explorer's advantage is that it isn't a competitive sport.

Grind is doing repetatives task to get to your goal/objective in the shortest amount of time. While there can be grind in ED if you play it like that, you don't need to.

 

[K-Rose]

Erm you missed the obvious one... Grinding the forums day in day out! I do this

Also, you're a poet and you didn't know it! (or maybe you did, I just also wanted to rhyme.)

 

[Kayweg]

We're gonna have one of these as a weekly thing now ?
Had the exact same thread last week already.
Sort of an episodic soapbox educational season ?
What's on the show next week then ?
"The journey is the destination" ? or perhaps "Use your imagination" ?
Darn, haven't had that one for a while, have we.

 

[K-Rose]

Grind is in the eye of the beholder...

I try to "RP" in this game, but I can't bring myself to get into it in that way like I could with Skyrim or other games.

What keeps me coming back is the technical stuff & the beauty. Basically I fancy myself as an amature Elite photographer. This game is SO screenshottable, that it makes everything else fun.

I enjoy nearly every aspect of the game, but what keeps me coming back is posting screenshots to my mates on Facebook and getting praise

Like these:

 

[Bomba Luigi]

I wouldn't say its in the mind, I would say its in the Heart. Looking at it objectivly Elite is a grind, every videegame ever created is a grind, but it doesn't feel like grinding when you are having fun.

 

[Deadspin]

I see the word "grind" daily, multiple times a day, in these forums. If you find the game to be a grind, it isn't the game, it's you. It's either impatience on your part, or you feel the need to have the largest ships with the best components, NOW.

I'm just going to stop you right there because your entire theory is based off of multiple assumptions.

1: That Frontier designed ED to be played like it was in the 80s.
2: That the majority of people complaining about "the grind" are impatient "want it now" types.
3: That your way of playing the game is the absolute correct way of playing the game.

1: It's just not true or we'd have true Newtonian flight like the original games and not a trumped up arcade flight mechanic with artificial limits on speed and maneuverability to keep things equal. It's not a single player game, though it can be played solo, it's designed in such a way as to encourage the use of all facets of the game while not meaning to punish you for skipping out on any single one, though engineers has proven that it will do just that.

2: There are "want it now" types in here but that's not who's doing the majority of the complaining. People play games to enjoy them and some people require a sense of achievement to reach that enjoyment. Spending 5-6 hours of your week looking for parts that may or may not show up randomly in a handful of places does not lend itself to either a sense of achievement or enjoyment. Personally, as someone who spent years training skill books in EVE Online, as well being very open about my distaste for the grind in this game, I am well acquainted with the amount of patience required to wait years to have what I want, while openly building my reserves and meeting my "joy" needs in other areas of the game. So you can kindly shove that line of thought where the sun doesn't shine.

3: None of us are ever right where this kind of thought is concerned. Everyone plays their own way. To berate any one single player for not playing the game the way you do or the way you think it should be done is asinine. Some people want the biggest and, by perception, best ships in the game as fast as possible just because. Some people think they need them to be better at BGS/CG activities (Though, arguably, the Cutter is pretty much the best CG ship). Others want the ship that best fits the current DPS meta, the best ship for the exploration meta, trade, mining and so on.

Like I said in a post yesterday about rank grinding. If we only had one grind, I wouldn't mind it at all, but we have grind on top of grind on top of grind in this game. Anything you want to do outside of RP or basic mission running, comes with a grind.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Still not 100% sure what grind means. If it means doing repetitive tasks for some time, there is grind in ED. Of course there is. The thing is, as long as that effort gets rewarded and is worth it.

Its usually meant as 'enforced repetitive tasks that are required to do but offer no fun'. For example: kill 10000 rats to go to the next lvl. Which, as the OP points out, is a bit irrelevant to ED.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

3: None of us are ever right where this kind of thought is concerned. Everyone plays their own way. To berate any one single player for not playing the game the way you do or the way you think it should be done is asinine. Some people want the biggest and, by perception, best ships in the game as fast as possible just because. Some people think they need them to be better at BGS/CG activities (Though, arguably, the Cutter is pretty much the best CG ship). Others want the ship that best fits the current DPS meta, the best ship for the exploration meta, trade, mining and so on.

He didnt say that. But common sense does dictate that while every play style is valid, complaining about the play style you chose yourself is just silly. If you dont like activity X, stop doing it.Dont keep doing it for hundreds of hours while complaining about it in hundreds of topics. We're human beings, not hamsters.

 

[Deadspin]

Its usually meant as 'enforced repetitive tasks that are required to do but offer no fun'. For example: kill 10000 rats to go to the next lvl. Which, as the OP points out, is a bit irrelevant to ED.

Irrelevant how?

Mine 10,000 tons to boost trade rank.
Kill 10,000 pirates to boost combat rank.
Scan 10,000 planets to boost exploration rank.

Even though they all mean absolutely nothing in the long run.

Scan 10,000 wakes to boost engineer rank.
Loot 10,000 wrecks to boost engineer rank.

I mean.. I could go on..

Destroy 10,000 skimmers to boost Federation Rank.
Sell 10,000 slaves to boost Imperial rank...

 

[Scottworld]

Try something new... not official and you wont get any reward, apart from the experience.
If people like the idea, I will expand it.

http://solaris.scottworld.net/elitedangerous/

 

[Cosmos]

I'm just going to stop you right there because your entire theory is based off of multiple assumptions.

1: That Frontier designed ED to be played like it was in the 80s.
2: That the majority of people complaining about "the grind" are impatient "want it now" types.
3: That your way of playing the game is the absolute correct way of playing the game.

1: It's just not true or we'd have true Newtonian flight like the original games and not a trumped up arcade flight mechanic with artificial limits on speed and maneuverability to keep things equal. It's not a single player game, though it can be played solo, it's designed in such a way as to encourage the use of all facets of the game while not meaning to punish you for skipping out on any single one, though engineers has proven that it will do just that.

2: There are "want it now" types in here but that's not who's doing the majority of the complaining. People play games to enjoy them and some people require a sense of achievement to reach that enjoyment. Spending 5-6 hours of your week looking for parts that may or may not show up randomly in a handful of places does not lend itself to either a sense of achievement or enjoyment. Personally, as someone who spent years training skill books in EVE Online, as well being very open about my distaste for the grind in this game, I am well acquainted with the amount of patience required to wait years to have what I want, while openly building my reserves and meeting my "joy" needs in other areas of the game. So you can kindly shove that line of thought where the sun doesn't shine.

3: None of us are ever right where this kind of thought is concerned. Everyone plays their own way. To berate any one single player for not playing the game the way you do or the way you think it should be done is asinine. Some people want the biggest and, by perception, best ships in the game as fast as possible just because. Some people think they need them to be better at BGS/CG activities (Though, arguably, the Cutter is pretty much the best CG ship). Others want the ship that best fits the current DPS meta, the best ship for the exploration meta, trade, mining and so on.

Like I said in a post yesterday about rank grinding. If we only had one grind, I wouldn't mind it at all, but we have grind on top of grind on top of grind in this game. Anything you want to do outside of RP or basic mission running, comes with a grind.

Well said.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Irrelevant how?

Mine 10,000 tons to boost trade rank.
Kill 10,000 pirates to boost combat rank.
Scan 10,000 planets to boost exploration rank.

Even though they all mean absolutely nothing in the long run.

Scan 10,000 wakes to boost engineer rank.
Loot 10,000 wrecks to boost engineer rank.

I mean.. I could go on..

Destroy 10,000 skimmers to boost Federation Rank.
Sell 10,000 slaves to boost Imperial rank...

You don't need to boost your ranks to get to the next part of the game though do you. You ranks go up as a consequence of just playing the game. Nothing more, nothing less. That is not a grind.

Scanning wakes is only a grind if you sit outside of s station and constantly do that and do nothing else to get that engineering rank ASAP.
The same goes for Ranks. You do no have to play it like that, that is a choice you decide to make.