Such diametrically opposed points of view expressed here, I don’t think they can ever be bridged, you either get it or you don’t, unfortunately those that only see big numbers and grind take so long to just leave although i have seen some adapt even some have an epiphany and wake up, and say yes I get it now.
Any grind, is in your mind.
- Thread starter shadragon
- Start date
Make 1,000 hops to go to Sagittarius A is therefor a grind. So my bottom line is, there is grind in Elite Dangerous, but the reward at the end of the grind determines whether it's an issue.
Case in point:
I am en route to check a planet surface in a planetary nebula that's 25,000 LY from where I started. At the start of this journey I looked for other planetary nebulae and found 12. Which I will visit along the way, and going back. If I wouldn't have done this, the grind of hopping 25,000 LY is not worth the reward of just checking a planet's surface. But since I hunted for planetary nebulae along the way (and some other stuff like Wolff Rayets) the reward is now: Check planet's surface and check 12 nebulae and a selection of odd stars. Which is worth it for me. So off I go!
I can't make the statement: hopping from one system to another is fun, even after the 500th hop the novelty doesn't wear off. But in the same way I can't make the statement: the game is forcing me to make those hops. I do. Because there's a reward at the end of the rainbow.
So there is grind in Elite Dangerous, whether you are willing to subject yourself to it, is up to you.
There is grind in this game and a lot of it.
For me grind is having to do something again and again to get something that allows me to do what I really want to do.
Examples:
Getting a rank to be able to buy a ship can be "grind" if the player only wants to have that ship.
Someone who just wants to kill NPCs has to do something different (driving around a moon/planet, trading, doing missions…) to get the materials for upgrades.
Someone who wants to fight in a big, expensive ship has do other things to earn the rebuy of that ship.
For somebody who wants to experience the game this all isn't "grind".
For somebody who wants to achieve something this can be "grind".
There is no right or wrong. "Blaze your own trail". As a sandboxy game this game attracts different types of players and for some players it is a very "grindy" game, for others it's the journey that matters and they don't see the "grind".
For me grind is having to do something again and again to get something that allows me to do what I really want to do.
Examples:
Getting a rank to be able to buy a ship can be "grind" if the player only wants to have that ship.
Someone who just wants to kill NPCs has to do something different (driving around a moon/planet, trading, doing missions…) to get the materials for upgrades.
Someone who wants to fight in a big, expensive ship has do other things to earn the rebuy of that ship.
For somebody who wants to experience the game this all isn't "grind".
For somebody who wants to achieve something this can be "grind".
There is no right or wrong. "Blaze your own trail". As a sandboxy game this game attracts different types of players and for some players it is a very "grindy" game, for others it's the journey that matters and they don't see the "grind".
Blackcompany
Banned
You're wrong about one thing:
"Dont want to do that? Not the game's fault."
Except now, it IS the game's fault.
Since the RNGineers inception, the game has forced people like me, who despise mining, to go mine in order to get certain upgrades. I dont like to mine. Ergo, it feels like grind to me. Massive, boring, thankless, burnout inducing grind. And that, is very, very much the game's fault.
Likewise, I would love to set off and roam the bubble, taking missions and just going where they send me. But there's no profit in it. Because of rep grind, I need to stay in one little area, grinding out (YES, GRINDING) faction rep over and over, in order to make a reasonable profit.
That is the game's fault.
Elite has a great flight model. It is surrounded by some of the worst game design in modern gaming. Braben needs to turn the game over to someone who knows how to make a GAME out of the flight model and spreadsheet grind sim he has built, before its too late. Because the problems we have right now - those of us who wanted sim instead of a typical MMO with sim mechanics - those problems are very much the game's fault.
They can be fixed. But certain egos are going to have to get out of the way first. And I dont just mean the ones belonging to devs.
While true, I was just listing examples of arguments that are yet to come. I play the game in whatever way I deem is the most beneficial to me (As in, I want to have fun dammit). Right now, that means zipping around in a Taipan on a planet surface because, lets face it, flying fighters in close quarters is fun as hell.
It felt implied, very much implied.
I don't really participate in engineers because of the grind.
I didn't really do sothis/robigo because they were grinds. I scored some good cash from a few runs but couldn't bring myself to do it non-stop like some because I actually want to keep playing the game, not burn out doing stupid crap.
I've dipped my fingers into just about every activity possible in-game at this point, except for hardcore power play actions. All were fun at one point or another until Frontier changed mechanics, payouts, etc. Next on my list is to overcome my need for player interaction and head out into the galaxy to get lost for awhile.
Except you do when payouts are crap and a single insurance claim on your ship is upwards of 50M
Lets turn this on it's head.
If there is no grind because you're just supposed to play the game and not grind then the game is severely lacking in things to actually do.
If I spend an hour or two doing trade runs, spend an hour or two bounty hunting, spend an hour or two mining and then spend an hour or two exploring in a week as to avoid doing the same thing over and over (Grind) I'm basically done with the game. If I do the exact same thing week after week I'm grinding the same content over and over. Even if I try and vary it up with CGs, Powerplay etc... I'm still doing the same things as the core professions as FD reused the gameplay mechanics for CGs, powerplay etc... rather than creating new ones.
Looks like the only way to not grind it not play the game or live in your fantasy worlds where you ignore the grind because you really really like a game you bought.
If there is no grind because you're just supposed to play the game and not grind then the game is severely lacking in things to actually do.
If I spend an hour or two doing trade runs, spend an hour or two bounty hunting, spend an hour or two mining and then spend an hour or two exploring in a week as to avoid doing the same thing over and over (Grind) I'm basically done with the game. If I do the exact same thing week after week I'm grinding the same content over and over. Even if I try and vary it up with CGs, Powerplay etc... I'm still doing the same things as the core professions as FD reused the gameplay mechanics for CGs, powerplay etc... rather than creating new ones.
Looks like the only way to not grind it not play the game or live in your fantasy worlds where you ignore the grind because you really really like a game you bought.
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Again that is a choice you make. When I go out exploring, I don't just honk and jump. I am generelly checking out planets scanning them, and I see something interesting I will land and have a drive. I always try to break up the things I do.
But if you are happy doing that kind of grind and not complaining about it, it isn't an issue. It's the poeple who choose to grind and then complain about it afterwards that is the issue.
Saying a game is bad but at the same time playing it with some kind of adictive compultion is a self defeating argument, if things were half as bad as some of you make out you would not be here. I don't play games i don't like or find dull and boring must be something wrong with me.[wacky]
Elite must give you all something why else would you spend your time here, perhaps focus on that for a change.
Elite must give you all something why else would you spend your time here, perhaps focus on that for a change.
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If they mean nothing, than how is it enforced? That is exactly the issue. Just because there is a counter, a steam achievement, a sticker or whatever for doing something doesnt mean you should do it. You can start doing what you want straight from the bat. As with a TES game, the stats reflect what you enjoy doing. If you insist on doing stuff you dont like just so the stat says something that you admit means nothing, well, thats on you.
Ofcourse, the real issue is that, sadly enough, many fully grown adult human beings are simply incapable of deciding for themselves what they want to do. Its why most AAA games constantly bombard you with very, very, very short term goals, with big arrows and loud fanfares if you managed to press >>>USE<<< at the right time. As ED is lacking that many resort to having a variable go up, because its tangible.
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If a single insurance claim is 50m, your flying a 1bil ship. At that point you shouldnt be paying insurance ever, at all.
Why do you need a higher trade rank?
Why do you need a higher combat rank?
Why do you need a higher exploration rank?
If they mean absolutely nothing to you?
Why do you need a higher engineer rank?
I could go on...
Why do you need a higher Federation rank?
Why do you need a higher Imperial rank?
If you are forced to grind to use a certain ship, then I would suggest not using that ship. Why continue to do it if it isn't enjoyable and a grind. That is still a choice you have made yourself.
The game has not forced that on you, you have done that to yourself.
I have to disagree a little bit. Needing to transport 100 tons of a rare material to unlock an engineer. 137 lys vs between stations. AND being limited to carrying 5 tons per trip.... that's pretty much the definition of grind. It's not like I can just "play normally" and just wait for things to accumulate naturally.
I didn't want to do that, needless to say I haven't done it.
Most sensible games involve some form of grind. A good example is the mega popular Minecraft.
It's a grind to mine the matts needed to build even a basic house, but the work of doing that is rewarding to the human psyche.
Me travelling through the human bubble is a grind, but I enjoy the view, I enjoy the scenary. So the grind is "hidden".
The word Grind is a bit stupid to use, it's just a repetitive action. I love watching Formula 1 racing, 60 laps of a track? It's a grind!
CQC can be seen as a grind, Call of Duty can be seen as a grind, killing 20 boars in WoW can be seen as a grind, EVE can be seen as a grind.
League of Legends has 70 million players a month. They play the same map over and over, watching minions crash into each other. It's a "grind" to me, but not to 70 million players.
It's all about your tolerance of the "grind", it doesn't exist or it does, it's all irrelevant, it's just about whether it makes you happy.
It's a grind to mine the matts needed to build even a basic house, but the work of doing that is rewarding to the human psyche.
Me travelling through the human bubble is a grind, but I enjoy the view, I enjoy the scenary. So the grind is "hidden".
The word Grind is a bit stupid to use, it's just a repetitive action. I love watching Formula 1 racing, 60 laps of a track? It's a grind!
CQC can be seen as a grind, Call of Duty can be seen as a grind, killing 20 boars in WoW can be seen as a grind, EVE can be seen as a grind.
League of Legends has 70 million players a month. They play the same map over and over, watching minions crash into each other. It's a "grind" to me, but not to 70 million players.
It's all about your tolerance of the "grind", it doesn't exist or it does, it's all irrelevant, it's just about whether it makes you happy.
This man has it: Whenever people argue about 'grind' or 'pay to win' for example, they must first define what is meant by that term. Only then can you agree what you are arguing about.
Lets look at wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grinding_(video_gaming)
First sentence: "Grinding is a term used in video gaming to describe the process of engaging in repetitive tasks.[1][2] The most common usage is in the context of MMORPGs like Realm of the Mad God, World of Warcraft, or Lineage [3] in which it is often necessary for a character to repeatedly kill AI-controlled monsters, using basically the same strategy over and over again to advance their character level to be able to access newer content. MUDs, generally sharing much of the same gameplay as MMORPGs, often feature grinding as well. Grinding may be required by some games to unlock additional features such as level progression or additional items."
So according to this, is there a grind in Elite? Yes. You do repetitive tasks to earn new items (ships)/content (fighters for example).
Lets say you want a fully specced corvette (I'd like one, although it might make the game a bit easy!).
That means about a billion credits plus the federation ranks. Can this be done without engaging in a repetitive task? I don't think so.
So I would say that Elite does have a grind. Like any game with a grind, you don't have to engage in it, but if you want to see all the content then well, you do.
If people are getting bored trying to make money as quickly as possible, my own suggestion is to ask one's self, 'What would I be doing if I had 100,000,000,000 credits?' My answer was, "see the galaxy". I then realised I don't need 100 * 10**9 credits for that. I only needed about 25 * 10**6. If the answer is PvP, the number of credits is definitely higher, but still not something that would require billions. You can do PvP in a decent FdL. Those are what, 100 million fully loaded? Most of the game's activities don't actually require that many credits.
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Question: where is the problem? Is it with me who wants to use some of the content the game provides, or is it the game's fault for not providing any fun options to support that content, therefore enforcing a grind to whoever wants to do it?
What is PVP?