I absolutely love the engineers. Flying from one end of the bubble to the other.. back and forth, one ship after the other. Good times.. good times.
Anyone else trying to G5 everything before the change?
- Thread starter Viking84
- Start date
the only horrible thing here is your statement, please try imagine other people have other points of view and stop insisting that your point IS everybodies point
i do enjoy the engineer runs for every ship i buy, THIS IS MAJOR PART OF GAME for many many players
you have a different view? fine for you , i have mine and its totally opposite to yours
to me the upcoming change is killing a great part of this game, so thank You
making things predictable is killing the fun
The changes as they are favour getting god rolls quicker and more reliably, at the expense of more lower tier rolls.
no
sandro stated that the old modules cant be pimped any further
so pimp em now or never
Nah. Much of them are about the fact that if you take an engineer like Tiana Fortune who does the following range of mods to grade 5:
- Frame Shift Wake Scanner
- Kill Warrant Scanner
- Manifest Scanner
- Collector Limpet Controller
- Fuel Transfer Limpet Controller
- Hatch Breaker Limpet Controller
- Prospector Limpet Controller
- Sensors
To be able to roll grade 5 mods on all of those today, all I need to do is take a single mod type on a single piece of gear from grade 1 to grade 5, say lightweight sensors for example, and I have full grade 5 access for all variants of all the above mods, so I don't need to do any grade 1 - 4 rolls for say kill warrant scanners or wake scanners, I can just roll any mod at grade 5 immediately.
Under this new system, if I roll lightweight sensors at G1 to G5 and then want say a G5 range enhanced sensor, I need to roll that at grades 1 - 5 too. Then if I want a fast scan KWS I need to roll that at grades 1 to 5. Then if I want a long range KWS I need to roll that at grades 1 to 5. Want to quickly try out efficient, focused and long range plasma accelerators at Bill Turner's to see which suits your build best? Roll all of them at grades 1 to 5.
Now think about the variety of materials you're going to need to need for all those. As things are now once you've taken a single mod to grade 5 with an engineer, you only need to worry about collecting the stuff for G5 mods unless you're deliberately choosing a lower grade roll and even then, if you're going for a class3 roll you only need the materials for that. Not so with this new system, you need the materials for the full range of grades and assuming you will need to max out one tier before going up to the next one, you'll actually need multiple lots of materials for grades 1 to 4 as well as whatever you need for the rolls to max out your grade 5.
The only people who are getting out of this with fewer rolls are the min/maxers who are doing 1,000 rolls or more now at G5. Anybody who likes to tinker with engineers but doesn't obsess about getting god rolls is losing relatively fast access to grade 5 mods with these proposals, unless they have been explained sufficiently badly that I've completely misunderstood the way it is intended to work.
Intended goal is not getting fast access to max grade?
Well the two things that have prompted the review of engineering are:
1. Complaints about the amount of grind involved
2. Complaints about the amount of time taken to max out modules due to RNG
These changes seem to address 2) if you take a single module and single upgrade type in isolation, which is probably why the pvp meta build players like it since there will only be one mod of each type that they will end up wanting to roll anyway, this being the nature of meta builds. For anybody who uses a range of different mods though, 1) is significantly increased.
The point isn't even specifically about the 'speed' of access, more about the sheer amount of different materials people will have to collect to work through the grades. If you're happy doing endless make-work material collection where you have to be in an Imperial system in civil war state on Wednesday between 3pm and 7pm when there's an 'R' in the month just to have a 3% chance of collecting the item you need from a USS, fine. Personally, I don't find it to be compelling gameplay.
Worth noting that I said just leave it alone. I've seen nothing yet to suggest that for me, that wouldn't be the best option. Other players will, of course, have different opinions.
It is annoying marketing phrase, can we stop using it?
You can raise your criticism without it.What's given in ED it is *relative* freedom, relative within design rules developer has intended for the game. You might not like them (thus criticism), but it isn't really 'blaze your own trail' territory, more like 'work around intended gameplay to get what I want'. Which is valid approach, but it doesn't mean developer will see criticism of completely different gameplay approach as something valuable.
Just to give example - if you go to EvE and complain about lack of first person cockpits, while it is valid complain, it is not really game design goal for EvE to provide it as something for priority.
Ergo - all games, being computer or board - have rules. They have designs they follow. All of them allow relative freedom to do things. But it is never absolute.
It is pure min max slang. I am having A class Cobra and I used Eagle for few weeks max. I always upgrade my modules when I feel I want to.
I never stop playing because I lack certain upgrades or modules. Why should I?
You want feel your 'hand' in game safe, that's fine, but game doesn't have to carter this play style. You have to feel actual danger for game to actually play it. If you just try to min max for funsies so you can only then enjoy game.....why?
Yeah, but that's the whole point - ED is not just PvP. In fact, it is very small part of it. Actually we are talking about META PvP, which has very little relation to in-game events at all. I don't think ED has to serve that kind of gameplay if I am honest.
Yeah I have to agree on the whole with this statement.
Blaming the players for how they play the game is ludicrous, ED have designed it, we the players (mostly) are just trying to get the most from it.
Engineers have actually given many players a purpose in this game...it's just a shame it's been designed as a huge time sink. You can't blame players for wanting to minimise that time sink.
Not sure I agree with second complaint - problem was that people saw other grades only as merely grind steps, because they didn't always offered guaranteed improvement. FD saw this and changed that it will always guarantee you have upgrade - but you always will have to go trough these steps too.
I personally see point 2 being solvable only as removing Engineer mods and Engineer themselves. Because otherwise what's the point - they can sell supercharged modules on specific stations.
![[VR] Frank_G](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/59/59394.jpg?1553527111){kind=avatar}
I never grinded once, i won´t now and i will not after the change. I am just enjoying the game and my time i have with it. Work is for... well, work.
It is not nonsense, I don't feel grind, you do. It is state of mind, nothing else. Because you want to *achieve* something, but I play ED to *feel* something, to *enjoy* something.
For people who want to win chicken dinner most likely ED is just bad...
Or it is just part of game's life, you take upon journey, you take those moments, gathering resources, rank, rep along the way.
I play that way and it works for me. So I am playing wrong? Or there's something different in my approach that works what doesn't in yours?
What is actual game content? If you would compare what I expect and what you expect from the game you would realize that's why we see this big difference.
For me moment by moment gameplay IS content. Granted, there are things that can be heavily improved (thus Beyond), but other than that? It is really something more of different perspective.
You want to beat boss at endgame. I want toy around tee and see if I can take on it with my pesky Cobra.
Seriously regarding 2) it is the one thing that pvp focused players have complained about above all others. It is their entire reason for wanting engineering changed. Both this forum and reddit are packed with posts from them about it. I agree with you by the way that losing the variability of engineered modules does completely remove the point of them from FDev's perspective since they were supposed to create variety. It's just that a vocal contingent of players specifically do not want variety when that means one stat may be lower for their ship than another player's.
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You are right, my statement was on the crude side of things. And I made a post a while ago in the Beyond section of the forums that requested feedback from the devs on just this difference in opinion. In other words, are the Engineers intended to be a gradual reward for time spent (what you enjoy), or are they meant to be a crafting system that allows players to intelligently tailor their ships for specific tasks, with well balanced pro's and con's as well as gameplay content designed for Engineered ships.
I would love to see them change towards the latter - where the focus is not on the grind but on the actual use of the mods, and on how you engineer your ship for a specific task (running cool, going fast, being light weight, being a solid reinforced hull tanker and so on and so on). What we have now is simply a gradual progression towards overpowered ships that serve no other purpose than to make the game far too easy for anyone who has reached G5. Massive wasted opportunity if you ask me, but I appreciate that others will disagree.
Your satisfaction with mediocrity is duly noted. Some of us are keen to make our ships "the best they can be" within reason, and the new system has made this very time consuming. In fact it has made it considerably worse for those who were fine with an OK G5 roll, and only really improved life for those seeking perfect god-rolls.
No one's blaming players to play game their way. That's big design issue challenge for open world games - while game design is going in one direction, there will be players who will hit their collective heads against the wall to achieve something totally opposite.
And that's cool and fine. Problem is there are many players that me that don't care for this particular gameplay style. And game can only fasciliate some sort of middle road, which still will find it's roots in one direction or another.
No one has asked to max engineer ships, players have chosen this approach themselves. Suddenly for many players it is seen as must have. Why? And why devs should see it same way?
It has been quite obvious it is first one. Also you can tailor ships with lower grade upgrades.
Why it is always personal attacks with you guys? You are keen to make your ships best they can be, ok, but game does not have to serve this goal on a plate. It is your choice.
This "best they can be" reason is why we have power creep and why we have super massive grinder ships and griefers within them.
Game doesn't have to be about min maxing your desired setup. It has to serve other players as well.
Human nature, especially when applied to gaming. Many people will want to avail themselves of the best the game has to offer; it's not surprising, nor is it 'wrong'.
Yeah. Thing is though there's nothing, literally not one thing, that you could do to engineering that would prevent anybody who doesn't want to min/max from not min/maxing. Not getting the best mod possible is extremely easy
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