Apply all engineering modifications at once, no spamming "Generate Modification"

Uthael

Uthael
I'm not even mad that I have to wait for the animation and sound effects. It's that I do know what I want, I have the materials. I'm at the right place and I have to do it 15 times per Shield Booster. And I need to do it for 8 of them.

  • Hello, miss Vatermann. I'd like the shield boosters on my ship to be as much resistance augmented as you can make them. Here is everything you need.
  • I'm sorry, that's not possible.
  • My fault entirely. I'd like for you to apply the rank 1 modification.
  • There you go. Anything else?
  • I'd like for you to apply the rank 2 modification once.
  • There you go. Anything else?
  • I'd like for you to apply the rank 2 modification the second time.
  • There you go. Anything else?
  • I'd like for you to apply the rank 3 modification once. (...)
It's so NOT interactive that I can make a macro which would complete those 15 "Generate Modification" flawlessly. And each time, it has to query the server. I'm stuck in a waiting loop where I have to wait for the game and the game waits for me to do the same predictable thing I was doing for the 7 modules before this.

I can't even go grab myself a drink, I have to be present and guide the whole process.

To get to the point of this Suggestion:
Please, let us apply the final modification if we have the materials for all of the previous ones.
 

Dragsham

Dragsham
Engineered ships take time. Yes you have the materials, yes your at the right place. And 6 or more shield boosters all need engineering.
But once their done their done. And that ship benefits.
Engineering a ship (depending on size) does take time.
But once your ships finished it's all good to go.
But get this, at some point you might well alter the internals. Smaller powerplant, smaller shields etc. To fit a job that needs doing that requires more jump range or bigger cargo capacity, or more or less or varied firepower.
Some ships are in a state of flux. You engineer them & then find yourself altering the internals. That's normal. So having lots of modded weps, modules etc to hand is a good strategy.
Some cmdrs have dozens of Engineered ships. Specced for exact requirements.
Others have just 10 or so and alter them accordingly.
It's never a waste of time to engineer a wep or module. There will come a time when you'll use them.
So engineer with an open mind. Time is precious yes. But having a varied arsenal of stuff allows you to customise to your exact needs.
Whilst bulk engineering in itself is a good idea, doing them one at a time ensures no mistakes are made.

o7
 

Uthael

Uthael
Dragsham said:
(...)
o7
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Spoken like a politician and missed the point. I did mention that waiting is not the problem. As if I don't have hundreds of hours in the game already. It's that brainless activity in tiny intervals. It does not feel rewarding. It feels like "get it over with" and towards my friends "I'm sorry, but you have to do this". Going to some nowhere, getting Polonium filled up and coming back felt like less of a chore.

If the game has to keep my screen and input occupied for a while, at least make it a minigame.
P.S.: By the way, it doesn't have to take time. It's a UI interaction that can be done in a few moments.
 
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Darth Ender

D
I love how so many people on this forum think time sinks where you are doing effectively nothing is somehow good gameplay that balances a reward.

It is objectively not.

Good game design balancing a reward like upgrades to a ship part should be had by completing actual game mechanics. That mechanic would balance time and skill completing tasks/puzzles/events. That's what balances player progress. Not garbage ui design and time sinks.

Perhaps the above gameplay is whatever you did to get the materials... In which case the balance cost has been paid. Everything you do at the engineer in then just tedium and waste when all it amounts to is pressing buttons on a menu.

Nothing is gained by keeping the current behavior. Nothing but time waste is lost by implementing something like what the op wants.
 

Dragsham

Dragsham
I do agree with Op. No buts!
I'm hoping the summer release might address some issues too. Like the ability to sell ships that we've built.
Along with modules and or weps.
A player driven economy!
Now that's where things will really get interesting.
 

Uthael

Uthael
Darth Ender said:
(...) Nothing is gained by keeping the current behavior. Nothing but time waste is lost by implementing something like what the op wants.
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Don't misunderstand now. Time waste is intentional. And I'm not trying to advocate for getting rid of it. In fact, this game can probably set some records in time waste mechanics. My favorite example is jumping between systems. I used a stopwatch and it turned out time between arrival moments is about 40 seconds. It doesn't seem that way. You'd think "15s max".

FDev probably have to keep adding time sinks everywhere to keep the players playing for longer. Keeping those time sinks interesting bearable takes innovation. I'm not asking for the time spent at engineers to be lower. I don't dare to hope. I'm asking for a way to make that time more interesting.
 
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Dillon Fallon

Dillon Fallon
Definitely can't see why we shouldn't have a set of buttons that take us straight to max out whatever grade we want to get to, especially since most modules will be taken straight up to G5 anyway. Even an "apply maximum" would be a big improvement when you're making overcharged multicannons for a Chieftain or something like that.
 

Jmanis

Jmanis
Dillon Fallon said:
Definitely can't see why we shouldn't have a set of buttons that take us straight to max out whatever grade we want to get to, especially since most modules will be taken straight up to G5 anyway.
Click to expand...
Bit of an aside, but i suspect the reason it's not the case is because, since an individual upgrade increases a random amount, and there are reasons not to just upgrade to max[1], this is just a hangover of the OG "slot machine" design of engineering being ill- advised tinkering by unauthorised people resulting in somewhat random, unpredictable results.

(Not endorsement of this design choice and implementation, just that's what it likely is)

[1] Lots of fine-tuned PvP and exploration fits do this.
 

Jmanis

Jmanis
SteveWW57 said:
Do you remember the original bio sampling mini game?
Click to expand...
OT, but removing that was an awful idea. Keeping it as is was awful as well.

Should have been :
  • succeed first go, perfect sample and you don't have to find more
  • second attempt rewards 2 samples
  • third skips straight to just getting a single sample; and
  • option to just not do it and default to a single sample retrieved.
The problem with the minigame was the lack of incentive for proficiency or strategy.
 

HRDiagram

HRDiagram
Now that the randomness has been removed, it would make sense to add a dial, where one can set the grade and number of ticks (e.g.: up to two ticks of G3, or up 3 ticks of G5), preview what the final stats would be, the total cost, and just click once (if affordable).

It would still retain the granularity, but at least there would not be the need to click over and over again.
 

Dillon Fallon

Dillon Fallon
Jmanis said:
Bit of an aside, but i suspect the reason it's not the case is because, since an individual upgrade increases a random amount, and there are reasons not to just upgrade to max[1], this is just a hangover of the OG "slot machine" design of engineering being ill- advised tinkering by unauthorised people resulting in somewhat random, unpredictable results.

(Not endorsement of this design choice and implementation, just that's what it likely is)

[1] Lots of fine-tuned PvP and exploration fits do this.
Click to expand...
Yes, although a recent update did take out the random. G1 is always one roll, G2 always 2 etc. so as we are now it is more feasible. I take your point though - previously it'd either likely be a shortcut where you're spending potentially less materials than doing individual clicks or more expensive at a time when mats were harder to come by and that wouldn't have gone down particularly well.

My first choice for this would be something that takes you to a specific level, rather than an actual "Apply everything" button, but I know that would be adding complexity. The option of even being able to max out things like shields, HRPs, armoured powerplants, power distributors where the benefits from not going to g5 are pretty minimal for the vast majority of players would be nice though. Perhaps if the engineering negatives scaled in the same with the positives for each button press it'd make for more interesting fine tuning as well as more of a reason to use the current method, but that's for another day.

As with all things though, I fully expect FDev to look at this and potentially decide its not worth doing because the potential fallout from accidentally introducing an issue into a system that works isn't worth the effort.
 

Jmanis

Jmanis
Dillon Fallon said:
Yes, although a recent update did take out the random. G1 is always one roll, G2 always 2 etc. so as we are now it is more feasible.
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Minor point but that's not how it works.

That's only when you are rank 5 relationship with an engineer.

if you are only, say, rank 1 relationship with an engineer, a rank 1 modification is a comparable amount of rolls to a rank 5 modification at relationship rank 5. But because you gain 33% relationship for each modification of the same level, after 3 you hit the next rank which makes things easier.

It's easy to forget because the relationship aspect of engineers is so undercooked it's not funny... but I'd equally argue engineering as a concept needs to be scrapped and redone after the whole material-drop debacle.
 

aRJay

aRJay
Ned Flandalorian said:
What, like making each roll add a random (instead of fixed) amount of progress?
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My issue with the latest version of the engineering process is that it is predictable and therefore dull, instead of going to the bad old days though I did think they could have made the rolls for the higher grades not produce the exact fraction each time but display an under or overshoot so at least there was more to look at.
Having the grades as clickable buttons with only the grades that you have sufficient materials and access for enabled could be better, but leave the click to progress in their as well to deal with fractional upgrades where we don’t have the materials and to generate the standing with the engineer.

Or leave the engineer base with the system as is and have the select available grade option for remote engineering but it only does whole grades.

SteveWW57 said:
Do you remember the original bio sampling mini game?
Click to expand...
Only when having an extremely bad day.
 
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