Arc points for explorers - The big rip off

Sole Trader · Apr 1, 2023

This is something that has been bugging me for some time now. Why is it that if I'm trading, fighting off pirates and the like I can earn the 400 points in a couple of days, but when out exploring I'm lucky to earn 100 points in a week!!!
E.g. I have just found an unexplored system with 32 objects (mostly a mixture of ice moons/planets with a few metal rich and a water world) I spent several hours exploring every object and how many arcs did I get for my efforts... The grand total of 3, so by that reckoning given the number of hours I play, I should make around 42 arcs for the week.
There seems to be a massive unfair imbalance when it comes to earning arcs between trading and exploring, anyone else feel peeved about this?

CMDR Rabbit · Apr 1, 2023

Arx are in general calculated based on the credits earned through an activity (although each activity has its own calculation i think). You'll get some just for doing stuff, like the few you got for actually scanning, but mostly you'll get them when you sell the data.

metatheurgist · Apr 1, 2023

Try selling one system at a time....

ferus · Apr 1, 2023

I agree, some activities pay way less ARX then others.
When I do a power restore mission without scavengers, I get a whopping 3 ARX altogether.
If there are some scavengers to kill it increases dramatically to about 50 (depending on the number of kills).

So yes, killing people pays more ARX than a peaceful restoration mission.

Exploration seems to have the same problem and the payout of ARX could indeed be vastly improved.
Killing and trading are way better for ARX even though you spend the same amount if time in game.

Northpin · Apr 1, 2023

So the OP feels they're being ripped off when getting free arx?

varonica · Apr 1, 2023

Sole Trader said:
This is something that has been bugging me for some time now. Why is it that if I'm trading, fighting off pirates and the like I can earn the 400 points in a couple of days, but when out exploring I'm lucky to earn 100 points in a week!!!
E.g. I have just found an unexplored system with 32 objects (mostly a mixture of ice moons/planets with a few metal rich and a water world) I spent several hours exploring every object and how many arcs did I get for my efforts... The grand total of 3, so by that reckoning given the number of hours I play, I should make around 42 arcs for the week.
There seems to be a massive unfair imbalance when it comes to earning arcs between trading and exploring, anyone else feel peeved about this?

The value of a system with just icy, rocky and metallic worlds with no terraformables can be in the range of a few hundred thousand credits, the water world may kick that up to a couple of million, that's almost nothing. On the other hand a trader with a good eye can make easily 30 or 40 million and often a lot more with one trade, but that's because he targets the high value items. What you are doing is spending a lot of time targeting small value items. In that system you should have scanned everything with the FSS, flew out and mapped the water world only and left the rest, say 5-10 minutes total work, and headed to the next system, that would have given you 90% of what you earned in several hours by scanning all the planets.

Just like any other profession you need to target high value items if it's about the credits or ARX. Every week I fly back to my carrier and get 400ARX cashing in my exploration data. Maintenance was a couple of days ago and with a couple of light sessions since I already have 50m in exploration data. On the other hand if you want to explore and look at stuff when you arrive in a new system, you don't get paid much for doing that, but that's sometimes the most rewarding part of the game.

Greasetrap42 · Apr 1, 2023

Certainly many deep space activities don't give much of anything for ARX or credits.

Traveling. System hoping to get from here-to-there in a ship. No scanning, just jumping. Almost zero if you are doing it from inside a fleet carrier.
Scanning systems of interest but low UC value. Visiting the planets, enjoying cool sites.
Looking for something specific, unusual or new. Notable stellar Phenomena (NSPs), Non human signals on planet surfaces, ancient ruins, etc.

It is unfortunate that the most valuable activities and discoveries (IMO) pay very little or nothing in credits or ARX. I'm not sure how FD would quantitatively monetize some of this. Meanwhile terafformables which really aren't very rare have big payout. And exoboiolgy.

Sole Trader · Apr 2, 2023

Thanks all for your thoughts, I appreciate that arcs are based on earnings, but it seems to be imbalanced when out exploring. Take the scenario where you've been out in the black for several months and amassed several hundred explored systems, you head back to cash them in. Now if you cash them in all at once you earn 400 arcs, no problem, but in order to maximize arcs the game forces you to have to trickle feed your exploration data over a period of several weeks or months even.
I just feel that for exploring the way arcs are awarded should be based on the objects scanned or visited, and whether or not if you make the first discovery should have a value and not just based on credits earned.
Oh! And Northpin, the title made you look eh!

varonica · Apr 2, 2023

Sole Trader said:
I just feel that for exploring the way arcs are awarded should be based on the objects scanned or visited, and whether or not if you make the first discovery should have a value and not just based on credits earned.

You in fact do get ARX for that, it wouldn't be once that I have ended up with 50 around ARX for a single session, you get ARX just for jumping, you get ARX for mapping ELW's, I can often earn my 400 ARX without even turning in data, just by exploring, not sure where you are going wrong but you are obviously targeting activities that reward no ARX and avoiding activities that do reward ARX. The number of ARX you get for just exploring (that is without turning in your UC data) was increased quite a while back because of complaints just like yours, but like it or not you still don't get ARX for just going and looking at stuff, they have to be based on certain activities.

Hyperspace Jumps Exploration 1 every 3 jumps Jump 3 times in a session

Universal Cartographics data Exploration? 1 per 175k CR Sell the data

Codex Entries Exploration 1 Find a new (to you) planet / star type, or scan something with the composition scanner and get the 'new codex entry' notification

SRV mat gathering Exploration up to 6 Scoop G5 mats using SRV (Crystalline Shard sites all all G5). 1 ARX for 5 mats[4]

Fuel Scooping Exploration 1 per 30T scooped Fit extra tanks, scoop a lot of fuel, check rate

FSS / DSS rewards - looks like 1 per 100k

High Grade mat scooping/scanning

Jumponium Synthesis 1 ARX

Neutron Star/WD jump 1 ARX

Guide / Tutorial - ARX Earning Guide

ARX Earning Guide You can earn up to 400 ARX per week. The week runs between the 07:00 UTC (Game time) Thursday restarts. Any ARX not earned in the week are 'lost' (i.e. if you earn 300 ARX one week you will still only be able to earn 400 next week, not 500). ARX do not expire - once you earn...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Note these details are from a fairly old thread so they may have changed since, but I very much doubt they have gone down and more ways to earn ARX while exploring may have been added in the meantime. So scanning and mapping an ELW worth 4.5m will earn you ARX, scanning and mapping a rock for 30k will earn you, well, basically nothing! So all those rocks you scan are basically worthless as far as ARX are concerned. I could do more digging for more details but I can't be bothered, you want more, look for it yourself.

metatheurgist · Apr 2, 2023

Sole Trader said:
Thanks all for your thoughts, I appreciate that arcs are based on earnings,

It's not. It's transactional. I get most of mine by killing things, not from cashing in the kills. You do actually get arx just from jumping. I know I get one or three just from moving around in the bubble. You also get arx from each 100M you pay your NPCs, if you cash in 1B in one transaction you get one arx. If you cash in 10 transactions of 100M....

Riverside · Apr 2, 2023

I have hit the weekly 400ARX cap every week since it was introduced (apart from one where I deliberately earned slightly less to get an elegant total ARX earned) and 800ARX weekly since the live/legacy split. As the OP says it's much, much easier to do in the bubble than while out in the black. Selling explo data earns plenty (and I do usually travel with a carrier where I can sell my data) but for a Cmdr flying their unsupported ship gathering explo & bio data it takes a concerted effort and some planning to get to the cap.

I don't really mind that gathering explo data earns ARX less quickly but what does surprise me is that salad hunting is such a time sink, and is seemingly an activity FDev wants players to do but so poorly rewarded (with ARX) that I tend to give priority to mapping terraformables over it until I'm confident I'll have time to reach the cap.

Definitely a first world problem but it is a curious anomaly.

I really like the weekly ARX bonus, it's something I can aim for if little else is going on and while out exploring (as I currently am) I try to achieve it without selling data/docking to build up a cache of data I can sell tactically when I do return to populated space.

As a side note I think the free ARX is intended to encourage actions that affect other players (directly meeting them or via the BGS).

metatheurgist · Apr 2, 2023

Riverside said:
As a side note I think the free ARX is intended to encourage actions that affect other players (directly meeting them or via the BGS).

You get arx for every x amount paid to your NPC crew. You get more if you game the payment by sitting in the station and doling out your transactions. How does that encourage you to meet players?

Amargosa · Apr 2, 2023

Riverside said:
Definitely a first world problem but it is a curious anomaly.

Actually it's a third world problem. In the first world one doesn't worry about free arx, one just buys it when needed.

Northpin · Apr 2, 2023

Sole Trader said:
Take the scenario where you've been out in the black for several months and amassed several hundred explored systems, you head back to cash them in. Now if you cash them in all at once you earn 400 arcs, no problem, but in order to maximize arcs the game forces you to have to trickle feed your exploration data over a period of several weeks or months even.

It seems to me that you are playing the game to get arx, instead of playing the game and getting arx as a bonus - you know, as a courtesy gesture from the developer.
The game doesnt forces you to do anything. Play the game, get arx.
But if you want to maximize the arx gains, you do need to research how to do it, however by doing so (IMO) it kinda kills the joy of playing the game

So, the game does not reward you with arx for the time spent in game, but for certain activities. And DSS-ing low value planetary bodies or moons does not qualify.

If you want to maximize arx, stop wasting time on DSS-ing low value planetary bodies. DSS only the most valuable bodies like ELW, WW, AW and HCM - especially the terraformables ones. Also, if you have Odyssey, the occasional exobiology will greatly help too.
However, if your joy is to DSS every planet and moon in a system, that will not help with the Arx gains

Other than that... the chances they will change the arx gains are close to zero.
After all, they do rely on ARX sales to keep the game funded.

Greasetrap42 · Apr 2, 2023

"Arc points for explorers - The big rip off"

Reality Check:
5,000 ARX = $4.99 USD
25,500 ARX = $18.99 USD

The

free

weekly 400 ARX is worth roughly 35 cents.

IMO not worth losing sleep over.

Sole Trader · Apr 3, 2023

Northpin said:
It seems to me that you are playing the game to get arx, instead of playing the game and getting arx as a bonus - you know, as a courtesy gesture from the developer.
The game doesnt forces you to do anything. Play the game, get arx.

I play the game because I enjoy playing the game, otherwise I wouldn't. ARX are a minor consideration in the grand scheme of things, but my argument is that the way they are rewarded seems disproportionate and biased against explorers.

Northpin said:
However, if your joy is to DSS every planet and moon in a system, that will not help with the Arx gains

That is the way I explore and not just cherry pick, and I'm sure many others do the same. To spend quite a significant amount of time pursuing this, to explore the entire system, should in my opinion be better rewarded for all the time and effort involved. From an earnings perspective I can spend say two hours exploring a system and can make, say on average, 1m credits per system, whereas trading I can do one delivery mission and earn the same amount in 5 mins and probably earn more ARX's in the process. Basically I'm saying if you like exploring as I do, you are doing so at a disadvantage compared to trading etc.

varonica · Apr 3, 2023

Sole Trader said:
I play the game because I enjoy playing the game, otherwise I wouldn't. ARX are a minor consideration in the grand scheme of things, but my argument is that the way they are rewarded seems disproportionate and biased against explorers.

That is the way I explore and not just cherry pick, and I'm sure many others do the same.

They don't actually, that's why we have a list of 18 MILLION systems with no primary star or any other bodies, because people scan stuff they find interesting. With the DSS now it's a matter of minutes scanning a small system, but it didn't used to be, people jumped in, honked, saw nothing interesting and jumped out again, so no data or tags on star, planets or moons, but the system was still marked as visited.

Riverside · Apr 3, 2023

varonica said:
They don't actually, that's why we have a list of 18 MILLION systems with no primary star or any other bodies, because people scan stuff they find interesting. With the DSS now it's a matter of minutes scanning a small system, but it didn't used to be, people jumped in, honked, saw nothing interesting and jumped out again, so no data or tags on star, planets or moons, but the system was still marked as visited.

Do you think every single player (except the OP) cherry picks? Do you cherry pick to maximise ARX earnings? I'm sure many players don't go out of their way to reach the weekly cap.

This thread is about a fairly minor issue, but one that is easily addressed by lowering the ARX earnings of other activities to be more in line with exploration. There don't seem to be many complaints that exploration is too low, only that it's not well balanced with other activities.

varonica · Apr 3, 2023

Riverside said:
Do you think every single player (except the OP) cherry picks? Do you cherry pick to maximise ARX earnings? I'm sure many players don't go out of their way to reach the weekly cap.

No, I cherry pick things that are interesting to me, nearly everyone does it, and by just doing that I reach the weekly cap, I mean 400 ARX isn't much when you get down to it. The OP is actually doing everything regardless of whether it has any interest to them or not, and doing that doesn't reward much in the way of credits or ARX, that's just the way it is. Now i don't criticise the way the OP explores, everyone has a right to explore whatever way they want, but you can't pick a way to explore that deosn't return much in the way of rewards and then demand FDEV customise rewards to that way of exploring, that way lies madness.

Riverside · Apr 3, 2023

varonica said:
No, I cherry pick things that are interesting to me, nearly everyone does it, and by just doing that I reach the weekly cap, I mean 400 ARX isn't much when you get down to it. The OP is actually doing everything regardless of whether it has any interest to them or not, and doing that doesn't reward much in the way of credits or ARX, that's just the way it is. Now i don't criticise the way the OP explores, everyone has a right to explore whatever way they want, but you can't pick a way to explore that deosn't return much in the way of rewards and then demand FDEV customise rewards to that way of exploring, that way lies madness.

'Demand'?

So when the OP said:

Sole Trader said:
I play the game because I enjoy playing the game, otherwise I wouldn't. ARX are a minor consideration in the grand scheme of things, but my argument is that the way they are rewarded seems disproportionate and biased against explorers.

That is the way I explore and not just cherry pick, and I'm sure many others do the same.

and you replied:

varonica said:
They don't actually,

what you actually meant by 'They don't actually' was that you agree with the OP that many others do the same (but not all)?

I think that cherry picking to maximise ARX earnings distracts from the basic act of exploring for pleasure. I regularly skip over things I might otherwise investigate. I don't mind this, it's a self imposed target in no small part because it is often a challenge for me to achieve but I tend to go for higher value explo data (to save for tactical use) which coincides with better ARX earnings. That the same player can easily hit the 400ARX cap in populated space but struggle while exploring suggests the issue (such as it is) lies with the game not the player.

It should be a challenge to hit that cap for all playstyles (or none I guess).