Are Frag Cannons any use whatsoever?

[Red Fox Four]

So quick update.

Put 6 Frags on my Chieftain and omg how much fun it is. Blasting ships to pieces like no tomorrow, even on the smaller ones like vipers, eagles and sidewinders.

It's all about maneuverability, but I feel the Chieftain is quite nimble in that regard and even more so since the 6 x Frags only require you to keep 1 pip into WEP and 2,5 pip in SYS + ENG (or even 2 in SYS and 4 in ENG).

I enjoyed this so much I went to Wolf 397 and Todd the whatever to engineer the frag cannons.

I upgraded all the frag guns to 100% grade 1, which gives 5/244 ammunition (so 5 pulls of the trigger before needing to reload, meaning your initial alpha strike to start the combat in a RES or Nav Beacon is massive).

For experimental effects I used Drag Munitions on one of the Class 3 Frags since slowing down the target means easier to get close and keep bullying them with the frag-guns. For the second Class 3 Frag I used Incendiary Rounds to burn shields off faster. For the remaining 4 frags I used Flow Control (since my power was getting tight with 6 x gimball frags + high capacity magazine upgrade).

It's working super nicely and bounty hunting has never been more fun. Took down a Krait MkII from full shields to dead in under 20 seconds

Here's the Coriolis build.

https://s.orbis.zone/EefDabXv

 

[ShinyDewott]

I run them on my PvP Clipper. So much fun. Combine those with the Clipper's secret Class 8 hardpoint (ramming), oh yeah...

 

[rekurzion]

I've heard this mentioned before for frags. I usually avoid all turreted kenetics because I don't want them to waste ammo trying to hit something a KM or more out. Does anyone have numbers on what ranges they'll actually try to engage at?

they definitely have a short range, i think 1km or so and do not fire their full range. for better effect if i'm using kinetic turrets i'll put them on a separate firing group so i can turn them on an off easily. works especially well if i have any beam turrets because i can keep the laser turrets running on both fire groups and switch to the kinetics when i'm close to the target then switch back after the fly by. i've only used this build on a runner so i'm not dog fighting. mileage may vary.

 

[Frenotx]

So quick update.

Put 6 Frags on my Chieftain and omg how much fun it is. Blasting ships to pieces like no tomorrow, even on the smaller ones like vipers, eagles and sidewinders.

It's all about maneuverability, but I feel the Chieftain is quite nimble in that regard and even more so since the 6 x Frags only require you to keep 1 pip into WEP and 2,5 pip in SYS + ENG (or even 2 in SYS and 4 in ENG).

I enjoyed this so much I went to Wolf 397 and Todd the whatever to engineer the frag cannons.

I upgraded all the frag guns to 100% grade 1, which gives 5/244 ammunition (so 5 pulls of the trigger before needing to reload, meaning your initial alpha strike to start the combat in a RES or Nav Beacon is massive).

For experimental effects I used Drag Munitions on one of the Class 3 Frags since slowing down the target means easier to get close and keep bullying them with the frag-guns. For the second Class 3 Frag I used Incendiary Rounds to burn shields off faster. For the remaining 4 frags I used Flow Control (since my power was getting tight with 6 x gimball frags + high capacity magazine upgrade).

It's working super nicely and bounty hunting has never been more fun. Took down a Krait MkII from full shields to dead in under 20 seconds

Here's the Coriolis build.

https://s.orbis.zone/EefDabXv

Strongly suggest adding corrosive to the mix. Frags have a low APV by default, so corrosive makes a huge difference when attacking (especially larger) hulls.

 

[Sylow]

Pacifiers have DRASTICALLY longer effective range than regular frags due to having both a significantly tighter spread, and a significantly higher projectile velocity. [...]

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Hmm. I gave the pacifiers another try the last days. Got three of them engineered overcharged and with screening shell, but it once again didn't convince me. Admittedly, I used the Pacifier against small and medium ships, where I would've just saved the ammo from regular frags and would've stuck to my smaller weapons only. So yes, against smaller ships the Pacifier was able to increase my damage output. Against anything it just didn't feel like so much of an advantage.
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I'll still keep the Pacifier (but only one of them) on my Krait. After all, my Krait can't power yet another APA, so one large hardpoint has to be a weapon of low power useage. But if it doesn't convince me in reasonable time, it'll sure be replaced again by a regular frag or regular cannon. I guess it's a matter of taste. The strong points you mention may be there, but they just don't seem to matter that much for how I fly.
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As a sidenote, just like with regular frags, I find it annoying that each shot needs to be triggered individually. When I jam to a target, so basically going shield to shield and keeping pushing, I just want to hold my trigger and the guns should keep firing, instead of requiring me to keep hammering the trigger. But again, that's probably just personal taste.
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[Kilostream]

I used these once... or twice... during Gamma or something back in 2014.

Are they any use at all?

I figured maybe I'll give them a chance... but they seem useless.

Does anyone even use them?

If they seem useless, you're too far away! Get right in there! Point blank! Gogogo!

 

[Red Fox Four]

Strongly suggest adding corrosive to the mix. Frags have a low APV by default, so corrosive makes a huge difference when attacking (especially larger) hulls.

I was thinking about it but didn't have the materials for it.

So far though the armor hasn't really been an issue. Once the shields drop the armor gets melted really fast.

I engaged one Krait Mk2 and it took quite a few hits to break shield (this was before I added Incendiary Rounds), but once shield was off the armor just vaporized. Which is why I went with Incendiary in the first place.

Might look into Corrosive though once I have the mats (time to grind I guess).

 

[Red Fox Four]

If they seem useless, you're too far away! Get right in there! Point blank! Gogogo!

Yeah I am doing that now

Half the time I get so eager to get close that I end up boosting right into the target... which also hurts them more than it hurts me since I'm flying with 2.5 pips into SYS anyways, and the Chieftain is relatively heavy so it rams hard. I sent quite a few eagles and vipers tumbling away like ragdolls from that.

I have a question though.

Was thinking about upgrading the drives for better maneuverability, but I can't really make good sense of the description of the engineered drives. I know one is faster top speed, and the other is better agility (at least that is how I understood it), but which one is which?

I want better agility to turn quicker and/or stay on target in turns to hammer them into submission.

So should I get Clean Drives or Dirty Drives??

 

[Kamiyoda]

Yeah I am doing that now

Half the time I get so eager to get close that I end up boosting right into the target... which also hurts them more than it hurts me since I'm flying with 2.5 pips into SYS anyways, and the Chieftain is relatively heavy so it rams hard. I sent quite a few eagles and vipers tumbling away like ragdolls from that.

I have a question though.

Was thinking about upgrading the drives for better maneuverability, but I can't really make good sense of the description of the engineered drives. I know one is faster top speed, and the other is better agility (at least that is how I understood it), but which one is which?

I want better agility to turn quicker and/or stay on target in turns to hammer them into submission.

So should I get Clean Drives or Dirty Drives??

Uping the speed ups your manuverabilty, so always go for the dirtiest of drives if thats what your after. Clean drives is for less heat while not in supercruise

 

[Morbad]

Another advantage of frag turrets is that they are autocycling, which lets them take advantage of rapid fire mods better than fixed ones giving them surprisingly competitive damage for short engagements. If you only have a few weapon types, turreted frags are going to be a waste, but I've occasionally used them to good effect on some ships.

I engaged one Krait Mk2 and it took quite a few hits to break shield (this was before I added Incendiary Rounds), but once shield was off the armor just vaporized. Which is why I went with Incendiary in the first place.

Krait only has a 55 hardness, so the effect isn't as profound against it.

So should I get Clean Drives or Dirty Drives??

Dirty.

 

[Red Fox Four]

Thanks for the quick replies guys.

Was poking at Coriolis and even with just Grade 1 100% Dirty Drives it increases the pitch on Chieftain from 37°/sec to 42, which is quite nice.

Time to find the next Engineer I guess

Engineering is addictive... also a bit of a cascading thing, cause once I upgrade to Grade 2 things draw even more power so then I need to engineer my Power Plant, and then I need to engineer something else!

 

[Bigmaec]

Thanks for the quick replies guys.

Was poking at Coriolis and even with just Grade 1 100% Dirty Drives it increases the pitch on Chieftain from 37°/sec to 42, which is quite nice.

Time to find the next Engineer I guess

Engineering is addictive... also a bit of a cascading thing, cause once I upgrade to Grade 2 things draw even more power so then I need to engineer my Power Plant, and then I need to engineer something else!

Yep, it's addictive, and you won't be able to stop until your ship is perfect

At least that's for me. I have/had every ship in game, some twice, and still love the thought to engineer another ship, with another role, and another specialization.

Just pledged to Hudson for some pacifiers, funnily after reading this thread. So you're guilty if I'm ganked by an Imp

 

[Sylow]

Dirty.

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You forgot to mention: and use the drag drives modification. Only if you fly a very lightweight ship (e.g. Courier noticeably below 80 tons) drive distributors become preferable. For any other ship and configuration, you want drag drives.
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[Red Fox Four]

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You forgot to mention: and use the drag drives modification. Only if you fly a very lightweight ship (e.g. Courier noticeably below 80 tons) drive distributors become preferable. For any other ship and configuration, you want drag drives.
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Thanks, good tip.

For Grade 1 it only increases the pitch from 42 to 43 degrees, but I guess it allows that pitch at higher speeds from what I can tell.

The difference becomes more significant with the higher grades though (judging by the numbers in Coriolis).

I don't fly the courier. I'm doing this for my Chieftain.

 

[GammaZ]

I did not try chieftain (hate the design) so i do not know how it handles outside of blue zone, but it is IMO important thing to consider, for PVE at least. Once you become "too fast" compared to most NPC-s you have to either resort to jousting or maneuver outside of blue zone a lot of time. And if ship looses maneuverability significantly doing this it may be better to avoid upgrading thrusters this much.

 

[Kamiyoda]

I did not try chieftain (hate the design) so i do not know how it handles outside of blue zone, but it is IMO important thing to consider, for PVE at least. Once you become "too fast" compared to most NPC-s you have to either resort to jousting or maneuver outside of blue zone a lot of time. And if ship looses maneuverability significantly doing this it may be better to avoid upgrading thrusters this much.

Its a barely noticeable change, but good point none the less.

 

[Red Fox Four]

I did not try chieftain (hate the design) so i do not know how it handles outside of blue zone, but it is IMO important thing to consider, for PVE at least. Once you become "too fast" compared to most NPC-s you have to either resort to jousting or maneuver outside of blue zone a lot of time. And if ship looses maneuverability significantly doing this it may be better to avoid upgrading thrusters this much.

Chieftain is really good. I'm loving it. Good module slots, packs a punch, can take several hits and quite agile.

Overall a great ship.

Not sure how the Challenger compares. Not tried it and just looks like a fat Chieftain so see no reason to try it.

 

[Morbad]

I don't fly the courier. I'm doing this for my Chieftain.

Drag drives will always be the fastest experimental for that ship, but double braced will occasionally be a good option.

Once you become "too fast" compared to most NPC-s you have to either resort to jousting or maneuver outside of blue zone a lot of time. And if ship looses maneuverability significantly doing this it may be better to avoid upgrading thrusters this much.

A bit of vertical/lateral thruster work can mitigate this issue considerably.

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

Pacifiers are wicked, frags are only useful on clipper imo.

The ship that requires the least talent..

 

[bigity]

Watch what happens to this asp once its shield falls, and I unleash my T-10's frag turrets:


PvP? Not a great idea. Trying to stay within 500m of someone is impractical. PvE? Hilarity ensues.

(Very handy when you're facing a rock because you're mining, but still want to trash NPCs that stray too close)

Yea but you aren't shooting at 1km

There was a recent vindicator jones video which taught me about them.

You have to fly different to use them, but the major tradeoff is ammo. He suggested they fit well with assassination missions where you're not there killing things for a longer period of time.

With OC vs double shot they last much longer. You just have to learn to control your trigger finger. (It was hard for me lol)