Artificial Intelligence in ED

iconoclypse · Nov 28, 2016

Dear FDev,
Where does the Elite Dangerous world stand on the subject of AI? I mean here we are 1300 years in the future and yet there are no apparent AIs. Are we talking a Dune-type rejection of AIs, or are they just not obvious? I mean, correct me if I'm wrong but there's been no mention of actual AIs in-game, or in the novels, for that matter. Yes, I know the novels are largely non-canonical, but it just seems we'd have heard of intelligent machines by now.

Michael Brookes · Nov 28, 2016

iconoclypse said:
Dear FDev,
Where does the Elite Dangerous world stand on the subject of AI? I mean here we are 1300 years in the future and yet there are no apparent AIs. Are we talking a Dune-type rejection of AIs, or are they just not obvious? I mean, correct me if I'm wrong but there's been no mention of actual AIs in-game, or in the novels, for that matter. Yes, I know the novels are largely non-canonical, but it just seems we'd have heard of intelligent machines by now.

There's plenty of AI - it's machine sentience that is banned.

Michael

Hell Razor5543 · Nov 28, 2016

Due to (in Lore) a war that occurred between Mankind and A.I. there was a ban on building any technology that could become self aware. I cannot remember where I read this, but it may have been in the novella book that came with the original Elite.

GODofDUTY83 · Nov 28, 2016

I would like to see a machine colony pop up. Bit like BSG.

tafkabb · Nov 28, 2016

Or Dune's Butlerian Jihad...

DustyArne · Nov 28, 2016

Michael Brookes said:
There's plenty of AI - it's machine sentience that is banned.

Michael

Is it?

So, what is that Android like human showing on the the displays in the hangar then?

CMDR Nef · Nov 28, 2016

DustyArne said:
Is it?

So, what is that Android like human showing on the the displays in the hangar then?

A "recreational" bot. If you know what I mean. *hint* *hint* *wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge*

iconoclypse · Nov 28, 2016

Michael Brookes said:
There's plenty of AI - it's machine sentience that is banned.

Michael

Could you say when, in game years, was this? And was sentience legislated against, then?
Seriously, even a vague timeline would be nice.

Hell Razor5543 · Nov 28, 2016

I would imagine that the reason is something like this;

Isaac Asimov developed the Three Robotic Laws to allow for Robots to work together in partnership with Mankind (rather then as masters or slaves). However, he also worked out how to circumvent them (although it took a lot of work to do so). If we allow for Robots and A.I. had been developed with the Three Robotic Laws filtering everything that they did, then they should have been safe. However, if somebody did manage to circumvent them (for example, either manufacture Robots with the Laws, or crew a warship entirely with Robots, convince them that all ships only have Robots on board, and then have them destroys ships as a 'training exercise'), and the resultant Robots then got out of control, Mankind would then end up fighting for their very existence.

For those who do not know them, this link explains the Laws;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Laws_of_Robotics

iconoclypse · Nov 28, 2016

Hell Razor5543 said:
I would imagine that the reason is something like this;

Isaac Asimov developed the Three Robotic Laws to allow for Robots to work together in partnership with Mankind (rather then as masters or slaves). However, he also worked out how to circumvent them (although it took a lot of work to do so). If we allow for Robots and A.I. had been developed with the Three Robotic Laws filtering everything that they did, then they should have been safe. However, if somebody did manage to circumvent them (for example, either manufacture Robots with the Laws, or crew a warship entirely with Robots, convince them that all ships only have Robots on board, and then have them destroys ships as a 'training exercise'), and the resultant Robots then got out of control, Mankind would then end up fighting for their very existence.

For those who do not know them, this link explains the Laws;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Laws_of_Robotics

I know the 3 Laws, however I'm still curious as to when Sentient machines were outlawed and (roughly) how?
And while I'm here - anyone know when the FSD was first developed??

Mr Cynical · Nov 28, 2016

Isn't Jaques a non-organic?

iconoclypse · Nov 28, 2016

Mr Cynical said:
Isn't Jaques a non-organic?

He's a cyborg. Therefore not a 'sentient machine'.

CMDR Nef · Nov 28, 2016

iconoclypse said:
He's a cyborg. Therefore not a 'sentient machine'.

He's the 6 million credit man.

Nine19CnynCrvr · Nov 28, 2016

iconoclypse said:
Dear FDev,
Where does the Elite Dangerous world stand on the subject of AI? I mean here we are 1300 years in the future and yet there are no apparent AIs. Are we talking a Dune-type rejection of AIs, or are they just not obvious? I mean, correct me if I'm wrong but there's been no mention of actual AIs in-game, or in the novels, for that matter. Yes, I know the novels are largely non-canonical, but it just seems we'd have heard of intelligent machines by now.

I'm actually reading the book "Tales From The Frontier" its a collection of short stories. One of the stories has AI at one of the stations. The story states that AI was banned across the galaxy and this one has kept itself off the radar.

iconoclypse · Nov 28, 2016

Nine19CnynCrvr said:
I'm actually reading the book "Tales From The Frontier" its a collection of short stories. One of the stories has AI at one of the stations. The story states that AI was banned across the galaxy and this one has kept itself off the radar.

I'm reading 'Tales' too. Haven't reached that story yet, but, as I noted above, most of the novels (and short stories) are OFFICIALLY non-canonical, at least according to Drew Wagar.
So I'm still trying to get to the WHEN and HOW of AI being banned. And the HOW and WHEN of the FSD being developed. The quest continues...

CmdrJacks · Nov 28, 2016

Asimov's four laws (three plus zeroth), were basically plot devices to demonstrate why such laws were probably bad ideas. Trying to control intelligent beings with natural language rules doesn't work too well for us humans, people get away with crimes due to loopholes or technicalities frequently. Trying to devise laws to govern beings more intelligent than us seems like a fools errand. I seem to recall an Asimov story in which a couple of androids redefines humanity to describe only themselves and concluding that the laws required them to remove the imposter species (homo sapiens) from existence.

Iskariot · Nov 28, 2016

Michael Brookes said:
There's plenty of AI - it's machine sentience that is banned.

Michael

But wouldn't it be great if some systems outside of the imperial and federal influence spheres were developing it.
I would love to encounter such civilizations; a machine culture.
I am fascinated with that kind of stuff.

"Strange machines on Ix"

esxste · Nov 28, 2016

If people haven't read this yet, they should

http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/01/artificial-intelligence-revolution-1.html

iconoclypse · Nov 28, 2016

Iskariot said:
But wouldn't it be great if some systems outside of the imperial and federal influence spheres were developing it.
I would love to encounter such civilizations; a machine culture.
I am fascinated with that kind of stuff.

"Strange machines on Ix"

esxste said:
If people haven't read this yet, they should

http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/01/artificial-intelligence-revolution-1.html

The wide-ranging effects of machine sentience on humanity is why much sci-fi ignores or explains AI OUT, eg. Dune, Mass Effect etc. And I suspect ED is no different in its reasons for omitting Sentient AI.

Masagmarod · Nov 28, 2016

I think that everyone is over looking that we have Sentient AI already in the game. It has killed more Commanders than most others. It's the Standard Docking Computer.....don't trust them brothers and sisters.......don't trust them.

Artificial Intelligence in ED

Game Director