Asteroid cores are not cold

Everyone knows that if you crack a core asteroid and then pilot the ship into the debris, your ship temperature drops until the screen ices up. I've seen it mentioned in videos that it is because the core, or the result of the blast, makes that area of space very cold. That's wrong. That area of space is no colder than any of the rest of the environment.

Cold is, of course, the absence of heat. There are only three ways that heat moves: conduction, convection and radiation. In conduction a cold body and a hot body in contact with each other share their heat until they are the same temperature. In convection a hot body warms the air around it, which then rises and allows cooler air to take its place. A hot body radiates infra-red light and in doing so loses energy, which results in it cooling down.

In space there is nothing in contact with your ship, so you can't use contact to cool down, (except for heatsinks.) So you can't use conduction. There is also no air and no "up" for it to move, so you can't use convection. The only way for your ship to lose heat is to radiate it. Radiation is very inefficient for cool bodies and so this is a problem that real space ship designers battle with. See how they do it on the ISS.

The rocks in icy rings are cold. They contain liquid oxygen, which puts their temperature between −218.79 °C and −182.962 °C. Every rock is that temperature; there is nothing special about cores. That has no effect on your ship because vacuum is a perfect heat insulator; the temperature of the rocks around you makes no difference to your ship. It is built to work in deep space where there is even less heat coming from a sun and, anyway, with a spacecraft, the problem is always cooling down, not warming up.

Except, that is, in the dense debris field immediately following the cracking of a core. The blast vapourises stuff and throws out rocks of all sizes, large and small. You hear it impact your hull when the rock cracks. The smallest rock shown when you fly into the debris is maybe a tonne, but there must be a whole host of smaller stuff too, down to grains of sand or less, and there will be a whole lot of it. Of course it will dissipate in time, drifting away and being attracted to other nearby bodies. But not quickly; the big rocks are only drifting slowly and the smaller stuff will not be moving any faster. For a few minutes following the blast, that space is not empty. One might say that it is not a vacuum, although the vast majority of it will be solid and liquid rather than a gas.

All that solid, liquid and gaseous matter makes contact with the hull of your ship. The heat of your ship is conducted into the cold particles and your ship cools down. Rather than being a strange property of cores or the explosion that cracks them, the cooling effect is a beautifully observed simulation of common physical law.
 
It is just the Pulp Sci Fi fun &/or the rule of cool
Don't over think it, after all you can button up in a cracked ice rock and stay at 0% despite being powered by an over charged heat inefficient fusion reactor.
Just as your ship can fuel scoop from stars, or fly in Corona in normal space not SC and land on planets that have temperatures in the thousands of K with no issues or noticeable effect on the ship yet over heat in burning star ports, where other parts of the interior isn't melting like your ship.
 
In space there is nothing in contact with your ship, so you can't use contact to cool down, (except for heatsinks.) So you can't use conduction. There is also no air and no "up" for it to move, so you can't use convection. The only way for your ship to lose heat is to radiate it. Radiation is very inefficient for cool bodies and so this is a problem that real space ship designers battle with. See how they do it on the ISS.

Is it now I should point out that the rings of Saturn have their own atmosphere?

Data from the Cassini space probe indicate that the rings of Saturn possess their own atmosphere, independent of that of the planet itself.

It's not a dense atmosphere of course, but it does bring into doubt your core assumption that in space there's nothing in contact with your ship.
 
News just in... Electons in short supply after pedant fails to understand that a statement can represent the resulting outcome of an event rather than describe in detail how the event occurs.
 
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Granted I'm a pedant, Dommarraa, no argument there. Apologies if anyone was offended; not my intention. But I think the explanation is worth making. I find such stuff fascinating and I'm sure many other do too.

Dunno. Jupiter (and Saturn/other gas giants, fwiw) radiate more energy than they receive from our sun. So I can image a roid going around a gas giant being warmer (less cold) on the outside than on the inside.
It doesn't work like that because of conduction. Our planet is warmer inside than outside because heat is generated inside by nuclear fission and the outside is cooled by radiating. It doesn't work in reverse and would have the tiniest of effects in something as small as a core rock. Gas giants are warmer than they can be by the sun's heat alone, but that just adds a tiny bit to the heat that the roid experiences. It wouldn't lead to any unusual effects.
It'd require a super conductive hull material to make that kind of heat transfer as quickly.
It is just the Pulp Sci Fi fun &/or the rule of cool
Don't over think it, after all you can button up in a cracked ice rock and stay at 0% despite being powered by an over charged heat inefficient fusion reactor.
Just as your ship can fuel scoop from stars, or fly in Corona in normal space not SC and land on planets that have temperatures in the thousands of K with no issues or noticeable effect on the ship yet over heat in burning star ports, where other parts of the interior isn't melting like your ship.
<shrug> I haven't done the maths; I wouldn't know how. But FDev want a game that's fun first and follows physics second. (That's why there's a top speed.) It's OK to bend physics and to hand-wave things a bit. Who knows what the characteristics of materials will be in the 34th century.
Burning starports have air. That would have the same effect to over-heat your ship.
Maybe these ships are well protected from radiated heat but vulnerable to conduction (Except through the landing gear of course.) Maybe that's why a paintjob is so hard to come by -- they use thermally reflective paint. Now I am over thinking it. But that does make sense in a universe where the most common weapon is the laser and ships have to get close to suns.
 
I think it would also be an attribute of your shields. Since we don't know how "shields" work, and can only speculate, I would assume it is a bubble surrounding your ship comprised of energy.
There's two problems with this. A ship with no shields has much the same heat behaviour as one with shields. So I think they can't be a part of the heat radiating system. Secondly, shields that blocked air at least would be a pain in starports. They could work like Dune personal shields and only stop fast-moving objects or objects over a certain size. So they would stop cannon rounds but let in air and small particles.
 
I can imagine a wash of frozen carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, methane, nitrogen, water and ammonia ice particles removing quite a bit of heat from the ship's radiators when they are vaporized on contact.
I can only recomment ONI for playful exploration of thermodynamics. (still a game - mind you). By dealing with solutions to transfer heat concepts like specific heat capacity and conductivity can be explored.
 

Deleted member 110222

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Good way to avoid pirates though.

Was mining in the Omega Sector last night and there was Vulture skulking about. He flew right past me while I was in the centre of the ice cloud... While filled with Opals.

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My mining experience is limited and I may be wrong but isn't it only ice roids that make you cold?

Rock Roids don't?

Also, nice thread.
 

Deleted member 110222

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My mining experience is limited and I may be wrong but isn't it only ice roids that make you cold?

Rock Roids don't?

Also, nice thread.
I've only cracked two rocks outside icy rings, but I don't seem to recall my canopy icing over in those circumstances.
 

Deleted member 110222

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Did you move into the center of the busted asteroid. In the cloud, it's hard to see the ice on your canopy.
Definitely, as I go into the now empty space to shoot all those now-exposed fissures to get even more ore.
 
I can only recomment ONI for playful exploration of thermodynamics. (still a game - mind you). By dealing with solutions to transfer heat concepts like specific heat capacity and conductivity can be explored.

I've designed and built custom cooling systems for data centers and laboratory equipment; I'm reasonably familiar with thermodynamics and heat transfer concepts.

ED's ships are enormous relative to their stated power outputs and have plenty of surface area for extremely rapid cooling if exposed to fairly dense clouds of ice. They also have powerful radiative cooling systems (with correspondingly powerful heatpumps to concentrate and move that heat to the radiators) that would be dramatically more effective as conductive cooling in such environments. If a ship can dump 70% of it's heat capacity in a dozen seconds of it's radiators and skin being exposed to a vacuum, submerging it in ice would cool the ship much faster.

My mining experience is limited and I may be wrong but isn't it only ice roids that make you cold?

Rock Roids don't?

Rocky material mostly wouldn't melt or vaporize on contact with the ship, ices would, and could carry away far more heat. Phase changes tend to require a lot of energy.
 
It's not too unrealistic, actually.

Here on Earth things lose heat in three ways:
a) radiation (infrared for our temperature range)
b) convection
c) conduction (heat flows from one object to another through contact)

Conduction is the most effective way to lose heat, radiation the worst by far. The thing is: both convection and conduction need other kinds of matter to be in contact with the hot object. For us here on earth that's usually the atmospheric gases and the surface our object rests on. In space you have neither, so you only have radiation left to lose heat. Like already stated that's the most inefficient mechanism. That's how thermos flasks work, by the way - they prevent convection and conduction. Most people are quite surprised when they learn how long a dead body would stay warm in space...
Now back to our space ship: you blow a 'roid up and fill the area with countless small icy particles. If you fly the ship into that local ice cloud your ships hull comes into contact with colder matter and heat conduction suddenly becomes a thing. The hot parts of your ship can now transfer their waste heat very efficiently to the cold particles.

Well done, FDEV :)


Edit: I was too slow, as it seems ^^
 
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