Hardware & Technical Attention Thrustmaster Cougar Users

Hi All, after some feedback and research in here looks like the X52/X55 may not be the way to go seems to be way too many problems with these sticks and the price is on an upwards curve.

Which lead me to getting a warthog. I was previously use the orginal TM gear back in the 90s the FLCS etc. I bought a cougar and was most disappointed with quality of it, rushed, poor support etc. It really put me of TM products. I see many good reviews of the Warthog on here so questions are.

Whats support like?
What don't you like?
Best play in UK to buy cheapest and service?
Anyone in UK ever used a shipping company like bongo.com to buy from the US?

I am willing to come back to TM but as am sure you can understand am a little concerned.

Kind regards


J
 
Hi All, after some feedback and research in here looks like the X52/X55 may not be the way to go seems to be way too many problems with these sticks and the price is on an upwards curve.

Which lead me to getting a warthog. I was previously use the orginal TM gear back in the 90s the FLCS etc. I bought a cougar and was most disappointed with quality of it, rushed, poor support etc. It really put me of TM products. I see many good reviews of the Warthog on here so questions are.

Whats support like?
What don't you like?
Best play in UK to buy cheapest and service?
Anyone in UK ever used a shipping company like bongo.com to buy from the US?

I am willing to come back to TM but as am sure you can understand am a little concerned.

Kind regards


J

Support.
I've had contact with TM support recently, they were very fast to reply on my inquiry and very professional and helpful. Top points for support!

What don't I like.
Nothing really. The overall quality is very good, the stick somewhat better than the throttle, metal vs. plastic in the handle.
The stiffness of the stick can be tiresome in drawn out dog fights.

I leave the other questions for someone else to answer.
 
Hi,

I'm not British, but maybe my insights will help you make a decision.
I have both, a Cougar, which still work like charm, and a Warthog.

It is rocksolid, which bring's me to the only downside of the Hog, its the weight of the throttle. Everything else is very well manufactured.

Why to order it from the States? I bought mine Last Year from Amazon at a very good rate.

Cant help you with the Service, since I did not need it in 6 years.

Regards
 
Thanks amazon are now one of the most expensive in UK. Also not impressed with Amazon of late slow delivery, lost parcels etc. Thanks for info on Hog, Fact that you not needed to use service is good. As i said with Cougar was v disappointed.
 
It is rocksolid, which bring's me to the only downside of the Hog, its the weight of the throttle. Everything else is very well manufactured.
It's not really clear if you mean that the throttle is too heavy or too light.

I find it to be heavy, but that's very positive for me as it stays in place even without fastening it to the desk. Same with the stick.
 
Sry for not being clear.

For me its too heavy, cause I attached it to a tableclamp. Others find it quiet useful, like you. So its not really negative.

To clarify, the Warthog is worth every penny.
 
I bought a warthog from these people a few days ago.
http://www.box.co.uk/Thrustmaster_Hotas_Warthog_Flightstick__1520878.html
Cheapest around at £250
They sold out very quickly but may be worth contacting to see when they will get more in.
Not had a chance to play with it but it feels great with all the metal.

Indeed, same here:)

I spent so long agonising over the Saitek models, the world has run out and I looked for alternatives - the TM Warthog I had dismissed due to price, but then I discovered box.co.uk.

I dithered for a bit then noticed the stock level dropping and so grabbed one!
 
I'm not British either, but quite satisfied with my recent Warthog purchase.

For pricing spend some time Googling and you might find a dealer you're not familiar with that has stock at a good price like I did.

I've not needed support. Build quality is good, although some of the switches and buttons feel a bit cheap. I think the throttle could be a bit heavier as I've lifted it off the table on occasion when yanking and banking wildly but it can be bolted to a desk.

Throttle friction is adjustable and I leave mine on the lowest setting. I don't find the joystick spring to be too stiff, but it can get a bit tiresome over prolonged sessions.

There is no jitter or play on the joystick and no need for deadzones.

Don't forget pedals in case you don't have any as there is no twist function on the joystick.
 
what's a good rate?

I haven't seen one for under 300 quid? That's a lot of wonga for a stick, mind you the 160 odd I paid for the X55 is not cheap either.

Do you have pedals too or got yaw on the stick/throttle somehow?


Hi,

I'm not British, but maybe my insights will help you make a decision.
I have both, a Cougar, which still work like charm, and a Warthog.

It is rocksolid, which bring's me to the only downside of the Hog, its the weight of the throttle. Everything else is very well manufactured.

Why to order it from the States? I bought mine Last Year from Amazon at a very good rate.

Cant help you with the Service, since I did not need it in 6 years.

Regards
 
Clamp

Did you buy a specific one or make one up yourself.

I spotted the joyloc then realised they are not trading.

Sry for not being clear.

For me its too heavy, cause I attached it to a tableclamp. Others find it quiet useful, like you. So its not really negative.

To clarify, the Warthog is worth every penny.
 
As a Cougar owner, I have some very relevant feedback to you.

The stock Cougar (straight from the shop) did not have a good gimbal
Cougar_U2N_Mod_06.JPG

It wobbles between the X and the Y axis. You can really feel that they are two completely different axes. What I wanted was a stick that felt even between the axes (like my previous MS Sidewinder FF Pro 2). There were several hardware modifications for this.. There was the Evenstrain, the ÜBER 2 NXT and others..

So I modded my stick back in 2005, with Ian "IJ" Johnston's ÜBER2 NXT. I basically had to unscrew my stick from the base, and send the entire base to Ian Johnston in New Zealand. Then when he was done, he sent it back to me.
This is what it looked like when it came back.
Cougar_U2N_Mod_07.jpg

And the stock sensors on the Cougar are also not very good. The sensors that detect rotations of the axes, they are friction based sensors. This means that they will wear down as time goes on, and they are less accurate. So at the same time as I got the ÜBER2NXT, I also ordered the "Hall sensors" from "Cubpilot."
Image27.jpg

As it stands now, I am very happy with my Cougar.. but with the modifications costing much more than the HOTAS Cougar itself, it got much more expensive than I had anticipated. If you don't already have a Cougar, I will have to recommend the Warthog. The only thing I prefer about the Cougar over the Warthog is the weight of the stick-base, and the throttle. Less buttons perhaps, but far better ergonomics, and a proper ergonomical thumb-stick. Plus, you don't have to worry about having the two throttle-pieces wobbling as you "lock" them together (which I find very annoying). Twin thruster control makes sense in a WW2 or A10 sim, but not a space sim. Most of the buttons on the warthog are analog on/off switches on its base, which to me is meaningless in a HOTAS. Might as well use a keyboard for that.

On the Warthog throttle itself, on the right hand side
hiuhhuh8iujj.jpg
, your fingers have access to one digital hat (only 4 ways, no analog stick). Below that: one speed-break with 3 positions. Below that: One boat-switch with 3 positions. Below that: a China-switch with 2 positions.
On the far side of the Warthog throttle
3.jpg
your index finger and middle fingers have access to two more hats. On the far throttle-twin, you have (poor) access to a red button.

Compared to the Cougar's throttle
zoom_microstick.jpg
Here you have easy ergonomic access to all the buttons and hats, and it fits your fingers like a glove. More importantly, instead of a digital 4-way hat, you have a proper analog thumb micro-stick with 2 axes smoothly interpolated, it also is a button if you click it in. I use this for lateral and vertical thrust, it gives me perfect control better than a hat, and I use the button to select on menus in the ship.
There is a speed break switch with 3 positions, and I use this to enter supercruise on the left, hyperspace on the right. There is a dogfight switch with 2 positions, which I don't really use at the moment.
There are two rotaries which I haven't found any use for yet.. except that the top rotary is also a button, which I use for boosting. The VHF-IFF hat on the front is a 4-way hat, which I use for other ship functions, such as silent running, opening the cargo scoop, landing gear, and deploy heatsink. My middle finger fits in this hat perfectly, while my index finger is resting on the rotary-button for boost.

Other than the throttle, the Warthog is an equally good stick. And cheaper than all the modifications I've made.
 
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Thanks all have really appreciated the feedbac, looks like the warthog is the way to go. Given the horror stories with the cougar (have experienced some myself) its looks like the warthog is the way forward. Although not without its faults by the sound sof none of them appear to be showstoppers and some appear subjective to individiuals.

I used to use my cougar with velcro to hold in place, is the same possible with the warthog pairing? Drilling is out of the question as i use a glass desk which I like and also want the ability to remove when not playing elite (that could be a while:)

Many thanks thus far (what a great community)

J
 
Heh, Velcro. I've also just done that with my Cougar as you could tip it up a little on more aggressive manoeuvres and the base would also travel over the desk a little. Much nicer to stick it down and Velcro gives a little cushioning too.

Also I'm loving the button setup I've now got. I have the radar cursor set to lateral and vertical thrust like Shigawire has which is awesome for both docking and combat manoeuvres. What I did too though was put disable flight assist on click (and hold) of the cursor which just makes perfect sense and works really well.

Similarly I have cruise/jump (now they have merged them) on the speedbrake 'back' movement but on forward I've put landing gear deploy/retract. Because this is a toggle switch which you can't tell Elite to use as such, I've used Target to program the landing gear button on both press and release. I've also made it disable the turbo button (assigned to the pinky lever on the joystick) when landing gear is down because I had a bad incident of turbo inside a station :D Even better is the feature in Elite to have landing overrides which I've used to disable yaw on roll so you line up with the station, deploy landing gear and can then easily and smoothly match rotation with the station.

I have assigned the dogfight switch to deploy cargo scoop on backward position (luckily Elite has a 'hold' option on this button) and used Target to set forward press and release to set and unset silent running. The side wheel changes the scanner range - I wish you could assign it as a proper axis but you can still use axis + and - to control it. Not as good as you have to jiggle it but still usable.

The top wheel axis doesn't have a function yet, except the press sets throttle to 0. I might use this for something else as I don't use it much. Perhaps if they allowed a separate button for countermeasures I'd assign that - it needs one as having only 2 fire buttons including countermeasure isn't very versatile.

The 4-way button on the throttle selects the left, right, scanner interface and deselcts - these are used all the time so nice to have handy.

As for the joystick, most is obvious - I have the main hat as look-around as I have no track ir or occulus atm. The grey button on top resets the view to straight ahead. Only other things worth mentioning is the small 4-way grippy hat has weapon deploy on up (fire does not deploy for safety) deploy heats sink on down and left/right changes weapon group. The grey 4-way button selects enemy targets and can cycle systems too. Smooth black hat controls energy management and both black hats also control the UI when using it.

This thing was designed for an F-16 but it seems it's also a great system for controlling a ship in space!
 
Heh, Velcro. I've also just done that with my Cougar as you could tip it up a little on more aggressive manoeuvres and the base would also travel over the desk a little. Much nicer to stick it down and Velcro gives a little cushioning too.

Also I'm loving the button setup I've now got. I have the radar cursor set to lateral and vertical thrust like Shigawire has which is awesome for both docking and combat manoeuvres. What I did too though was put disable flight assist on click (and hold) of the cursor which just makes perfect sense and works really well.

I have no velcro on mine. :) But yeah, the microstick is perfect for lateral and vertical.. unfortunately, mine has started acting up in one of the directions. Barely registers some movements in one axis. :(

Similarly I have cruise/jump (now they have merged them) on the speedbrake 'back' movement but on forward I've put landing gear deploy/retract. Because this is a toggle switch which you can't tell Elite to use as such, I've used Target to program the landing gear button on both press and release. I've also made it disable the turbo button (assigned to the pinky lever on the joystick) when landing gear is down because I had a bad incident of turbo inside a station :D Even better is the feature in Elite to have landing overrides which I've used to disable yaw on roll so you line up with the station, deploy landing gear and can then easily and smoothly match rotation with the station.

That's quite brilliant. I haven't learned TARGET yet, so I have no idea how to go about doing that. Making sure that landing gear is on the same switch as FSD, ensures that you will never forget the landing gear out as you try to jump. I only have the SPD BRK as FSD when pushing it forwards. Backwards I haven't bound to any function yet, since I used to have Supercruise on the back, and Hyperdrive pushing it forward.

I have assigned the dogfight switch to deploy cargo scoop on backward position (luckily Elite has a 'hold' option on this button) and used Target to set forward press and release to set and unset silent running. The side wheel changes the scanner range - I wish you could assign it as a proper axis but you can still use axis + and - to control it. Not as good as you have to jiggle it but still usable.

I've got the VHF-hat on the throttle to enable cargo scoop (forward), silent running (left), landing gear (right), heat sinks (back).

The top wheel axis doesn't have a function yet, except the press sets throttle to 0. I might use this for something else as I don't use it much. Perhaps if they allowed a separate button for countermeasures I'd assign that - it needs one as having only 2 fire buttons including countermeasure isn't very versatile.

I have the RNG rotary button for boosting. The rotary itself is only used inside the galaxy map (because I'm using Oculus Rift DK2), so I find it easiest to navigate using the HOTAS. Rotaries control the zoom and the elevation.

The 4-way button on the throttle selects the left, right, scanner interface and deselcts - these are used all the time so nice to have handy.

As for the joystick, most is obvious - I have the main hat as look-around as I have no track ir or occulus atm. The grey button on top resets the view to straight ahead. Only other things worth mentioning is the small 4-way grippy hat has weapon deploy on up (fire does not deploy for safety) deploy heats sink on down and left/right changes weapon group. The grey 4-way button selects enemy targets and can cycle systems too. Smooth black hat controls energy management and both black hats also control the UI when using it.

This thing was designed for an F-16 but it seems it's also a great system for controlling a ship in space!


All things related to moving my head around is done with the Rift DK2. But prior to DK2 I had the following setup.. I haven't changed any of it. :p
  • Grey POV hat up : target ahead
  • Grey POV hat left, right : target prev, next
  • Grey POV hat down : enable head-look mode
  • Microstick on throttle : with headlook mode on: moves head around
  • pushing the microstick button in : select in menus
  • Smooth black hat : in flight-mode does power management (eerily similar to your own setup), in ship menu mode this hat moves up and down the list.
  • Rough black hat : select sub-targets on ships (might find a different use for this following your own examples)
  • Grey china-hat (2-way) : Yaw left & right (since I don't have currently made space for my rudder pedals), in ship-menu mode: selects previous and next menu category.
  • Top red button: deploy/retract hardpoints
  • Rightmost red button : secondary weapons
  • Trigger button : primary weapons
  • Grey pinky button : FA OFF
  • Black metal bar: Reverse throttle direction
 
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I have no velcro on mine. :) But yeah, the microstick is perfect for lateral and vertical.. unfortunately, mine has started acting up in one of the directions. Barely registers some movements in one axis. :(

That's a real pain. I wonder if it gets worn out easily or perhaps just a loose connection? I hope mine holds out as it's such an asset to manoeuvring.

That's quite brilliant. I haven't learned TARGET yet, so I have no idea how to go about doing that. Making sure that landing gear is on the same switch as FSD, ensures that you will never forget the landing gear out as you try to jump. I only have the SPD BRK as FSD when pushing it forwards. Backwards I haven't bound to any function yet, since I used to have Supercruise on the back, and Hyperdrive pushing it forward.

I used the Target UI which is pretty straightforward to use with minimal research required. Certainly the press and release events are a doddle. The changing of button behaviours depending on a switch position is fairly simple when you know how. I also tweaked the axis to make the cursor and throttle less sensitive in the middle for precision and the joystick more sensitive so you don't have to move it about so much (it is a bit of a beast on extended manoeuvres but I guess your muscles would eventually adjust to the added strain :D ).

All this can be done without touching any script but if you do venture into script-land then you can get it to do almost anything, even re-map or re-assign axis at the flick of a switch.

The only thing is you have to remember to run Target and the profile before you start Elite or your stick won't be recognised as the correct one.

I've got the VHF-hat on the throttle to enable cargo scoop (forward), silent running (left), landing gear (right), heat sinks (back).

If/when I get either an Occulus or Track-IR I might use this button for something other than UI-look as it'll become free again. Also my POV hat will be free so even more possibilities.

I have the RNG rotary button for boosting. The rotary itself is only used inside the galaxy map (because I'm using Oculus Rift DK2), so I find it easiest to navigate using the HOTAS. Rotaries control the zoom and the elevation.

Yes I tried boost on that but it just isn't in a natural position for me and doesn't feel that great when you press it for such a common task. It is the logical choice though so I might go back to that and use the pinky-lever for something else (as I said it would be perfect for countermeasures if that were possible).


All things related to moving my head around is done with the Rift DK2. But prior to DK2 I had the following setup.. I haven't changed any of it. :p
  • Grey POV hat up : target ahead
  • Grey POV hat left, right : target prev, next
  • Grey POV hat down : enable head-look mode
  • Microstick on throttle : with headlook mode on: moves head around
  • pushing the microstick button in : select in menus
  • Smooth black hat : in flight-mode does power management (eerily similar to your own setup), in ship menu mode this hat moves up and down the list.
  • Rough black hat : select sub-targets on ships (might find a different use for this following your own examples)
  • Grey china-hat (2-way) : Yaw left & right (since I don't have currently made space for my rudder pedals), in ship-menu mode: selects previous and next menu category.
  • Top red button: deploy/retract hardpoints
  • Rightmost red button : secondary weapons
  • Trigger button : primary weapons
  • Grey pinky button : FA OFF
  • Black metal bar: Reverse throttle direction

Sounds like a good setup there - lucky to have Occulus that really frees up some buttons so you can map virtually everything except being able to type messages. Maybe you can use text-to-speech :)

I have the old classic TM (Elite funnily enough) analogue pedals that luckily I bought ages ago before the Cougar. They plug straight into the joystick and work really well, although I only generally use them for giving a nudge left or right on landing as I have Yaw-on-Roll in normal flight.

One neat thing I tried is using the second stage of the trigger to fire the second fire group. You actually have to assign this outside of the game by editing Elite's bindings file ( I think it's Joy6) because in-game you can't press it without pressing Joy1 too and creating a combination which doesn't actually work.

I had one set of lasers firing normally then when you pressed the trigger all the way the other lasers would fire too, unleashing your full barrage. I guess you could also fire a missile here instead if you wanted. If you wanted the second stage to fire without the first stage I think you would need to do something in Target to allow that though. Just allows more options. I wish Frontier would add more fire groups though - 2 is not very flexible.
 
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