Aviary Details

[The_Riot22]

I know the topic of Aviary has been discussed A LOT, but there's an angle that I haven't really seen discussed.
What type of special objects or new gameplay details would you like to see added with an Aviary DLC?

I thought of a few things:
1. A set of dead tree branches
2. "Primary" perching points. You can label a specific log, rock, or tree as a primary perching point for birds to go to.
3. Regarding animal talk points with birds, instead of having the birds eat special food, have them do some flying right by the talk point as a brief "show" for the guests.
4. 2 Aviary DLC's. Credit Leaf's YouTube video for giving me this idea. Space them 1 or 2 DLC's apart. They can be split up by hemisphere, so one being New World and the other being Old World. Or have a general Aviary first and then a Tropical Birds, or Wetland Birds, or Birds of Prey, etc.

Let me know what you think should be added.

 

[NZFanatic]

I think it should go like this:

• Free update which includes "covered habitats" and new climbing equipment/enrichment (i.e. feeders to be used by climbing animals, branches like you mentioned, etc.).
• "Flying Animal Pack" DLC; eight bird species, fully habitat animals, but they require a covered habitat.
• Next few DLCs include a bird or birds where appropriate along with other species.

 

[peafowl]

i would hope they are an extension to habitats so that we can mix them in with the current roster

 

[Iben]

My take would be this:

• Aviary fence system similar to the JWE aviary system. You place fences and it automatically connects the aviary. You can adjust the height of the fences, the curves of the netting, the supports, etc.
• A few bird specific free update enrichment items such as feeders and nest boxes. Branches I honestly don't see happening, anything that's climbable would most likely be perchable and we've got a bunch of branches and perchable items in the game already.
• 8 birds in the aviary pack
• More birds in future packs

Wow eight birds seems so sad. I guess that if we all subscribe to the thought of something is better than nothing....it might help, but I can not even wrap my head around it.

I think this is the one thing people should do at this point, don't expect more than 8 birds. Anyone who does at this point is only setting themselves up for disappointment. Expecting more is just expecting them to do something they haven't been able to do so far, so you're in control of your own expectations at this point. Can Frontier do more? Perhaps they can. But we know that 8 animals is the limit they can do at this point. So if you don't want to end up being disappointed, expect maximum 8.

In all honesty, if picked carefully, 8 birds can cover enough as a first DLC. We know that Frontier includes more mechanic based animals in DLCs that follow, we've gotten several deep diving animals in the Africa and North American Animal Pack, we've gotten another digging animal after the Africa pack. There's no reason to think that once we get birds, we wouldn't get more birds in subsequent packs.

Now, if you look at this roster:

• A toucan
• An eagle
• A parrot
• A crane
• An ibis
• An owl
• A vulture
• A hornbill

For a starters pack this covers several types of birds that are common in zoos and that fit in multiple zones. It isn't perfect, it isn't everything to make every aviary in a zoo right away, but for a starters pack it would pretty much hit the most common types of birds with one stone. You could get far with these, and if subsequent packs add some more species, we'll have a good solid amount of birds by the end of the development of the game.

 

[12344321]

Wow eight birds seems so sad. I guess that if we all subscribe to the thought of something is better than nothing....it might help, but I can not even wrap my head around it.

I agree. I have SO much anticipation for an aviary DLC. But if it sucks...I'm not buying it.

And so far Planet Zoo dlc are stale and repetitive. Nothing groundbreaking, nothing particularly memorable.

People seemed to love the aquatic pack (that didn't have any fully aquatic species ) I couldn't wrap my head around that.


There's so much potential. People still talk about Zoo Tycoon all these years later. Frontier could give us an amazing dlc. I don't think they will (just judging by their track record of dlc)


My impression of Planet Zoo's businesses tactics has been "How much money can they charge for the least amount of animals in a pack"

 

[Iben]

There's so much potential. People still talk about Zoo Tycoon all these years later. "

To be fair here, the only reason people still talk about ZT(2) is because there literally wasn't any better alternative available in the past decade The alternatives that were there never really had a grasp on the zoo building community.

Objectively looking at the vanilla ZT2 it was just as riddled with flaws as any other game.

 

[ElectricMonk]

For $10, 8 animals, whether birds or anything else is totally fair. As @Iben says, more birds will come in additional packs. TBH, I’m a bit sick of people thinking that ‘x’ pack needs to totally complete x. As demonstrated in (almost?) all the DLC so far, more animals relating to whatever DLC your talking about (e.g., birds) will come later - you just need a bit of patience. If you want all (or even most) birds displayed in every (or any large) zoo around the world, you’ll probably be disappointed.

 

[The_Riot22]

Wow eight birds seems so sad.

Realistically, we cannot expect more than 8 birds in any DLC. I think an Aviary DLC might have 6-8 birds in it, so 2 DLCs would give a dozen.
Also, as others have said, once Aviary mechanics have been released, future DLCs will probably add a bird or two, especially since at least half the remaining DLCs are likely to be animal packs. However, we shouldn't expect a big roster of 30-40+ birds to be added to the game. If DLCs are still be added 3-4 years from now, then yes we can expect this. But for now, we should just expect a couple prominent members of various birds groups to give variety...as Iben explained very well below:

• A toucan
• An eagle
• A parrot
• A crane
• An ibis
• An owl
• A vulture
• A hornbill

For a starters pack this covers several types of birds that are common in zoos and that fit in multiple zones. It isn't perfect, it isn't everything to make every aviary in a zoo right away, but for a starters pack it would pretty much hit the most common types of birds with one stone. You could get far with these, and if subsequent packs add some more species, we'll have a good solid amount of birds by the end of the development of the game.

Remember, Frontier needs to consider both diversity in bird type, biome and region, all with a limited quantity. So they are going to emphasize 1 of each in the above list over a bunch of different types of Macaws variants(even though I would LOVE to make a habitat filled with 5 different Macaw species).

 

[AmyEvans]

My take would be this:

• Aviary fence system similar to the JWE aviary system. You place fences and it automatically connects the aviary. You can adjust the height of the fences, the curves of the netting, the supports, etc.
• A few bird specific free update enrichment items such as feeders and nest boxes. Branches I honestly don't see happening, anything that's climbable would most likely be perchable and we've got a bunch of branches and perchable items in the game already.
• 8 birds in the aviary pack
• More birds in future packs

I think this is the one thing people should do at this point, don't expect more than 8 birds. Anyone who does at this point is only setting themselves up for disappointment. Expecting more is just expecting them to do something they haven't been able to do so far, so you're in control of your own expectations at this point. Can Frontier do more? Perhaps they can. But we know that 8 animals is the limit they can do at this point. So if you don't want to end up being disappointed, expect maximum 8.

In all honesty, if picked carefully, 8 birds can cover enough as a first DLC. We know that Frontier includes more mechanic based animals in DLCs that follow, we've gotten several deep diving animals in the Africa and North American Animal Pack, we've gotten another digging animal after the Africa pack. There's no reason to think that once we get birds, we wouldn't get more birds in subsequent packs.

Now, if you look at this roster:

• A toucan
• An eagle
• A parrot
• A crane
• An ibis
• An owl
• A vulture
• A hornbill

For a starters pack this covers several types of birds that are common in zoos and that fit in multiple zones. It isn't perfect, it isn't everything to make every aviary in a zoo right away, but for a starters pack it would pretty much hit the most common types of birds with one stone. You could get far with these, and if subsequent packs add some more species, we'll have a good solid amount of birds by the end of the development of the game.

Actually with the list provide not a single aviary could be made, you could make single species enclosures, but an aviary? You could mix the parrot species depending on what it is with the toucan and the ibis depending on what ibis, but that is it, and it would not even make for a good implied aviary to be honest.

With what is already available in the game we can definitely create realistic African Savannah exhibits, Rainforest Habitats, temperate forest habitats etc. It might not be the greatest most diverse exhibits representing these habitats, but they all would be solid entries as zoo exhibits.

With that list of birds we do not even scratch the surface, not even a small wave I'm afraid. I totally understand what you mean about expectations because thus far Frontier has shown a pattern, even when they branched out from that pattern with animal packs, it was only to become an extension of an already existing pattern. But birds require a completely different approach in my opinion and I'm hoping they are aware.

Birds constitute the vast majority the species found in zoos that do not have dedicated aquariums or insectariums. They certainly eclipse mammal species on any roster, just pick your zoo and you will find a diverse bird collection.

I understand your point about receiving birds in future packs and I hope that is the case, assuming the next pack is even a bird related pack (if not the situation gets even worse) but how many more packs can we expect realistically after this? three more packs? 5 more packs? lets say we get another 8 birds, it is still not a realistic representation of species in proportion to the large amount of mammal species in the game. We have several bears, more wolves that I have ever seen in any zoo, we are soon reaching total big cat diversity (just missing leopards) other than monkeys (Frontier's current largest weakness other than birds and reptiles) what other are deserves for them to break away from their pattern.

I understand logistics and not being able to create additional assets when the platform can not sustain it, but then maybe creating a zoo game was not a great idea, because at the end they will end up with a game very unbalance and the legacy of it will be totally ruined for many of us, others might not care much. But like I said maybe all is not lost, even if all this comes to pass, modders could eventually become the legacy of this game and their names will eclipse Frontier's own in what is eventually done to allow players to create realistic zoos.

 

[Mjmannella]

I’d personally prefer ibises as habitat animals like flamingos. Same with other birds like pelicans, storks, and cranes. These don’t really need an aviary.

 

[SalamAnders]

Birds constitute the vast majority the species found in zoos that do not have dedicated aquariums or insectariums. They certainly eclipse mammal species on any roster, just pick your zoo and you will find a diverse bird collection.

But take a look at those birds, and you will notice a lot of species that probably are too small for the game unless they make some kind of exhibit for birds, which I wouldn't expect. Yes, birds are very important zoo animals, but we can most likely expect medium-large sized birds in PZ, and probably most in the large end. Most zoos will have some large birds, but usually not as many as small birds. I wouldn't say medium-large birds are more important than a good representation of monkeys or rodents which we don't have at the moment. 8 species is a good start.

 

[Iben]

Actually with the list provide not a single aviary could be made, you could make single species enclosures, but an aviary? You could mix the parrot species depending on what it is with the toucan and the ibis depending on what ibis, but that is it, and it would not even make for a good implied aviary to be honest.

I think it is going to be crucial to use the same definition of the word "aviary". If you only go by the definition of a multi-species covered habitat, I can certainly agree with your statement. I don't think there's even remotely a possibility that you can have a realistic scenario where you have enough birds to do that right of the bat.

Even if we go as far as 20 birds, there's no way you can make a DLC that would allow you to make a realistic amount of different multi-species aviaries. You'd either need to focus on one very specific region, or you'd have to compromise and end up with like 4 species for your multi-species aviaries for each region. Neither will ever satisfy people who are really into building this kind of aviary.

However, I am not talking just about multi-species aviaries. I see it broader; and I count single species aviaries as just as important. Plenty of which also exist in zoos today. I really don't find it fair to judge a possible bird pack solely on the basis of being able to make the big multi-species aviaries you are referring to. So that's why I went with the list. Choose the animals wisely, and some can be combined into a multi-species aviary. The other ones are single species ones, which is absolutely fine in my eyes.

For all intents and purposes, do let me state that I too want to be able to make those. But I also try to be as realistic with my expectations as possible.

I understand your point about receiving birds in future packs and I hope that is the case, assuming the next pack is even a bird related pack (if not the situation gets even worse) but how many more packs can we expect realistically after this? three more packs? 5 more packs?

What the amount of packs is going to be nobody can know, so that's honestly hard to say. I can't make any statements about it, because I just don't know. All we do know is that getting 8 birds now doesn't mean that we'll never get more birds.

I understand logistics and not being able to create additional assets when the platform can not sustain it, but then maybe creating a zoo game was not a great idea, because at the end they will end up with a game very unbalance and the legacy of it will be totally ruined for many of us, others might not care much. But like I said maybe all is not lost, even if all this comes to pass, modders could eventually become the legacy of this game and their names will eclipse Frontier's own in what is eventually done to allow players to create realistic zoos.

There's just a limit in the amount of money any company can throw into DLCs. For each company it's different, and for Frontier it's clear that their current approach is the way to make it profitable for them. They're not a charity, they're a company that needs to pay their devs and also make a profit. And I think that's fair. I also need to make money to pay my bills. I know people like to think that Frontier tries to do the "least possible for the most amount of money", but just objectively looking at all the content we get for free, I don't think that's even remotely true. They are by far not the kind of money-grab company like there are others.

At the end of the day, as with any game of any genre, compromise is the name of the game. There's not a single game in the world that can capture what a zoo is like, there's not a single development team in the world that can cover it all and provide it all. Compromises are going to have to be made. You're never going to be able to please everybody, so you can either accept that the compromise is there and work with it; or you can dislike the game for it. Both are equally fair choices, it's up to you which one of it it will be.

However, I do think that it's not so surprising that the games focuses more on (big) mammals. They are in the end the most popular animals amongst the general public, so the majority of people out there want those first and foremost. Birds are important to zoo fans like you and me, but I fear that the game's first and biggest audience is just animal fans in general who want to make their own zoo. And don't necessarily care about whether those are realistic or not.

I also really want to say that I completely understand where you're coming from and I think from that standpoint your opinion is certainly valid. To make an ultra realistic zoo, no game developer is ever going to be good enough and in the end we're going to look at modders for that. But I personally also believe that a good comprise can be made, and I also believe that it's possible to have that compromise in the 8 animal pattern.

 

[12344321]

I want to point out how stupid this is in my opinion.

‐ THE COMMUNITY IS VERY VOCAL ABOUT AVIARY DLC.

- but only birds to represent 7 continents would be VERY, VERY underwhelming (to the point where I don't want to buy that.....I want birds badly but that won't make my zoo look better if there's only one bird to represent all of Africa for example)

- Planet Zoo has a limited llifspan. People theorize maybe 4 or 5 more dlc left

- So aviary dlc with only 8 birds to represent all of eeart's regions is very underwhelming. And only 3 or 4 more dlc remaining would mean only 3 or 4 birds would be added later...12 birds will still be pathetic.

Time IS running out. There are limited dlc's remaining.

Games don't get support forever....to think Planet Zoo will just add birds in each dlc is sooooooo stupid and idealistic and unfounded. (With all due respect).

Only three dlc left...and everybody's like "don't worry we'll get birds later on" No....we won't, time ran out and you were wrong about that.


Especially if we only get like 3 or 4 more dlc....then only 3 or 4 extra birds will be added and they'll cost $30-40 if you want them.

Please someone else realize this. Everybody's like "Oh we'll get birds later in other packs!" That's unfounded.

Especially if one of the remaning dlc is an aquarium pack...doubt we'll get aviary birds In it. Same with a desert pack. I doubt it will have aviary birds. Rethink the adding birds in later dlc argument, it's SO flawed. If this was 2019...it would have been a great idea to add a bird in every dlc...

 

[SpookDoc]

I think it should go like this:

• Free update which includes "covered habitats" and new climbing equipment/enrichment (i.e. feeders to be used by climbing animals, branches like you mentioned, etc.).
• "Flying Animal Pack" DLC; eight bird species, fully habitat animals, but they require a covered habitat.
• Next few DLCs include a bird or birds where appropriate along with other species.

This is what I feel is most likely if we ever get an Aviary-style pack. I only differ on opinion about fully flighted birds “requiring” a covered habitat. Like habitat species in PZ and the flying species in JWE2 (which likely would have overlapping code with such a pack), flying species would be able to escape and function outside an enclosure.

 

[The_Riot22]

- but only birds to represent 7 continents would be VERY, VERY underwhelming (to the point where I don't want to buy that.....I want birds badly but that won't make my zoo look better if there's only one bird to represent all of Africa for example)

- Planet Zoo has a limited llifspan. People theorize maybe 4 or 5 more dlc left

- So aviary dlc with only 8 birds to represent all of eeart's regions is very underwhelming. And only 3 or 4 more dlc remaining would mean only 3 or 4 birds would be added later...12 birds will still be pathetic.

I do mostly agree. However, we have no way of knowing how many DLCs are remaining. I believe Frontier has committed to 4 DLCs in 2022, and if those are profitable and the game remains popular, they will likely add more DLCs in 2023.

I do think if we get an Aviary DLC in the next 2 packs that we will end up with up to a dozen or so flying birds by the end of this year. That Aviary may give PZ a nice boost that could carry over into 2023 for more DLCs(and more birds).
I get what you are saying, but until we know just how many or few DLCs are left, I'm not gonna knock an Aviary DLC...especially since we aren't sure how PZ would do the mechanics and gameplay.

 

[ElectricMonk]

Actually with the list provide not a single aviary could be made, you could make single species enclosures, but an aviary? You could mix the parrot species depending on what it is with the toucan and the ibis depending on what ibis, but that is it, and it would not even make for a good implied aviary to be honest.

Nothing about the word ‘aviary’ implies, let alone requires, that there be more than one species. An aviary can contain just one species.

 

[Iben]

Games don't get support forever....to think Planet Zoo will just add birds in each dlc is sooooooo stupid and idealistic and unfounded. (With all due respect).

How in hells name is it unfounded if it is literally based on how they handled other mechanic based animals in previous DLCs?

You are free to not like the scenario even when it's the most likely one to happen based on the knowledge we have today, but calling it unfounded is just blatently incorrect.

 

[NZFanatic]

This is what I feel is most likely if we ever get an Aviary-style pack. I only differ on opinion about fully flighted birds “requiring” a covered habitat. Like habitat species in PZ and the flying species in JWE2 (which likely would have overlapping code with such a pack), flying species would be able to escape and function outside an enclosure.

When I say "require a covered habitat", I am of course talking about containment, not functionality. Theoretically we'd be able to release a bird into a normal habitat, too, but then, of course, it would just fly away.

 

[Bearcat9948]

I want to point out how stupid this is in my opinion.

‐ THE COMMUNITY IS VERY VOCAL ABOUT AVIARY DLC.

- but only birds to represent 7 continents would be VERY, VERY underwhelming (to the point where I don't want to buy that.....I want birds badly but that won't make my zoo look better if there's only one bird to represent all of Africa for example)

- Planet Zoo has a limited llifspan. People theorize maybe 4 or 5 more dlc left

- So aviary dlc with only 8 birds to represent all of eeart's regions is very underwhelming. And only 3 or 4 more dlc remaining would mean only 3 or 4 birds would be added later...12 birds will still be pathetic.

Time IS running out. There are limited dlc's remaining.

Games don't get support forever....to think Planet Zoo will just add birds in each dlc is sooooooo stupid and idealistic and unfounded. (With all due respect).

Only three dlc left...and everybody's like "don't worry we'll get birds later on" No....we won't, time ran out and you were wrong about that.


Especially if we only get like 3 or 4 more dlc....then only 3 or 4 extra birds will be added and they'll cost $30-40 if you want them.

Please someone else realize this. Everybody's like "Oh we'll get birds later in other packs!" That's unfounded.

Especially if one of the remaning dlc is an aquarium pack...doubt we'll get aviary birds In it. Same with a desert pack. I doubt it will have aviary birds. Rethink the adding birds in later dlc argument, it's SO flawed. If this was 2019...it would have been a great idea to add a bird in every dlc...

I'll remind the audience that you were saying PZ support was going to end after the Aquatic pack

 

[12344321]

I'll remind the audience that you were saying PZ support was going to end after the Aquatic pack

Not really.


After weeks of silence from PZ I said it seems like we weren't getting a dlc.


Never actually said SUPPORT WILL END. I was theorizing when. It is going to end eventually. And judging from rumors that it was ending a year a ago, and the silence from Frontier it did seem like they weren't going to release a dlc.