Aviary Details

[XT]

I kind of doubt we'll get new mechanics at this point in the game - general consensus seems to be that Frontier actively supports (most) games for about 3 years and we're heading to that point. The engine itself is starting to show it's age and limitations, they no longer have a large development team, etc. My best guess is that they are going to finish fine tuning the burrowing and diving mechanics (add more animals to those abilities), and finish up adding whatever animals they consider necessary for the remainder of the game's lifecycle. I don't get the impression that the game is making so much money that they'd go out of their normal cycle to extend work on this game, and even if they were - as I mentioned above, the game's underlying engine and mechanics are becoming dated (single threading being the largest obstacle to increasing game complexity). They might add some larger habitat birds that traditionally in zoos and are not always in roofed enclosures (cranes, flamingos, other large birds of various sorts), as part of their standard packs moving forward. I certainly doubt they'd also do a major overhaul of animal behaviors or animal care needs on top of it, so whatever birds we did/do get will have the same simplistic requirement sets as any other habitat species.

In a more communicative world, it'd be nice if Frontier said something like - well, free flying is too much work for a game this old/etc, sorry, maybe next time. Or no free flying but we'll be adding more larger birds or whatever. I know that's not their style and I'm not sure why they are so leery about transparency but I think that's due to them being an older game company, and no longer a start-up.

 

[12344321]

I think if Frontier wants to extend the lifespan of it's fastest selling game (to reach a million sales) they will listen to the community and eventually release an aviary or aquarium dlc.

If they never release them, then I think the game ran it's course and it's best years (or weeks) are behind it sadly. It seems like everybody who plays PZ is asking for either aviary dlc or aquarium dlc (at some point).

I'm waiting for those dlc to start playing again, the Europe dlc (stale 4 plus a box formula) didn't get me back into the game unfortunately.

 

[Iben]

My best guess is that they are going to finish fine tuning the burrowing and diving mechanics (add more animals to those abilities),

Small side-note here. "Burrowing" isn't a mechanic in the same way as diving, digging or a possible flying would be. The burrow is at its core, "just" an enrichment prop and not a locomotion based mechanic like diving was. It's an important distinction to make, because both the burrow enrichment item and the more complex digging mechanic are both far less complex on a technical level than what we got with diving.

I don't get the impression that the game is making so much money that they'd go out of their normal cycle to extend work on this game

Their financial records are freely available and showed time and time again that Planet Zoo is one of their best selling games at this point in time (breaking company records in its release year). It had a financial growth of 14% in the last year, which for a niche game like a zoo management game is quite a lot.

On top of that, when comparing to the other park management games of Frontier, Planet Zoo is one of their most steady games right now in terms of player base. Doing better than all of the other ones, including JWE2.

To say that Planet Zoo is "just doing fine" would be an understatement. If anything given the game's current success, we might see a break in that pattern of 3 years of support.

as I mentioned above, the game's underlying engine and mechanics are becoming dated (single threading being the largest obstacle to increasing game complexity).

Whilst they certainly weren't the top of the top in terms of engine, saying that the engine isn't capable of handling free flying is actively disputed by the fact that the Cobra engine supports it in their other game (JWE2) and that both games are on the same engine version. It is certainly not at a point where it's too dated, especially given that the Planet Coaster version of the Cobra engine already supported free flying birds to begin with.

Yes, Planet Zoo is more complex than JWE2 and has a higher influence on your resources; but that has much more to do with the game niche it is in than that it really has to do with its engine. Being mostly a sandbox oriented game with very few actual limitations in the game, the only real limitation you have is the resources of your computer. It's the name of the game with that sort of sandbox based games. Most games will put limitations on you so that you never really hit the limit of your computer. Sandbox games like this don't, and simply let you build until your computer can't handle it anymore. This is also the case for Planet Zoo, but that in itself won't be a reason to stop adding new stuff nor adding more complex stuff.

What I'm trying to say with this is not that you cannot be cautious about it. There's indeed a chance that Frontier will not introduce birds to this game. The reasons you mentioned above however don't seem to support that. It doesn't mean that they support the opposite either though.

The things we do know is that Planet Zoo is doing really well for Frontier, that Frontier has been very actively listening to their community in the past year with their DLCs, that the community really wants birds, that birds in exhibit like boxes are far far easier than diving and even digging ever was, and that after having the abiility to let animals freefly (which was already present in Planet Coaster's Cobra engine version) their engine now has a way to contain said free flying to a specific area (Jurassic World Evolution 2's aviaries).

All in all, if you are cautiously optimistic, there are plenty of signs that aviaries might very well make it into the game. Are these signs as certain as the signs that we were going to get an Australian and South American DLC in the first year of DLC releases? No. Are they a guarantee that they will be in the game? Absolutely not. But are the signs there? They for sure are. Even if you're cautious about it.

 

[biggest_dreamer]

I guess my "issue" with the notion that we'll likely only get 8 birds in an aviary pack (which I do agree is the most likely outcome) is that I would fully expect Frontier to continue releasing aviary birds in future DLC releases, which would undoubtedly cut into our future potential for terrestrial animals. And personally, there's still more terrestrial animals that I would like to see than there are remaining DLC species I expect to get. Is getting aviary birds worth cutting down on our likely limited future terrestrial lineup? I'm sure it is for a lot of people, but I can't make myself give a definitive answer. I realize, of course, that this is a "me" problem and has no bearing on what will or won't come to pass.

That said, as much as I'd love (and again: don't expect) to see more than 8 birds at once, I do think that's a sufficient number to cover a broad range of iconic species from different continents and biomes. Off the top of my head:

• Bald eagle
• Eurasian eagle owl or snowy owl
• White-backed vulture
• Great hornbill
• Bali mynah
• Laughing kookaburra
• Toco toucan
• Scarlet macaw

Obviously this could use some workshopping but I think it's a solid starting point. I doubt that many people could take issue with a list of this nature in and of itself.

 

[jcp011c]

I agree with much of the above. There is nothing to suggest that Avian or fully Marine mechanics are not going to be something that can't be done. There's also nothing concrete to indicate 2022 is a "closing down" period of final year, though admittedly looking at a general timeline of Frontier's game leads some weight to that.

As far as the idea that if flying and fully marine mechanics cannot be implemented, then Frontier should say to, I offer this. While that might be a positive for those who want to know definitively at this point (and I'm among them to be honest), in general, telling your customer base what cannot be done isn't something that happens a lot in the gaming industry. In many cases we're left in the dark until the game no longer have official updates or DLC, and left to assume that the run is over.

 

[Mjmannella]

And personally, there's still more terrestrial animals that I would like to see than there are remaining DLC species I expect to get. Is getting aviary birds worth cutting down on our likely limited future terrestrial lineup?

The best of both worlds is a pack of habitat birds. We get more avian diversity while also ensuring that habitat animals aren't being put off in the backseat.

 

[Sahara]

If no sneak peak tomorrow I will be sad.

My life is very uneventful

 

[XT]

Small side-note here. "Burrowing" isn't a mechanic in the same way as diving, digging or a possible flying would be. The burrow is at its core, "just" an enrichment prop and not a locomotion based mechanic like diving was. It's an important distinction to make, because both the burrow enrichment item and the more complex digging mechanic are both far less complex on a technical level than what we got with diving.


Their financial records are freely available and showed time and time again that Planet Zoo is one of their best selling games at this point in time (breaking company records in its release year). It had a financial growth of 14% in the last year, which for a niche game like a zoo management game is quite a lot.

On top of that, when comparing to the other park management games of Frontier, Planet Zoo is one of their most steady games right now in terms of player base. Doing better than all of the other ones, including JWE2.

To say that Planet Zoo is "just doing fine" would be an understatement. If anything given the game's current success, we might see a break in that pattern of 3 years of support.


Whilst they certainly weren't the top of the top in terms of engine, saying that the engine isn't capable of handling free flying is actively disputed by the fact that the Cobra engine supports it in their other game (JWE2) and that both games are on the same engine version. It is certainly not at a point where it's too dated, especially given that the Planet Coaster version of the Cobra engine already supported free flying birds to begin with.

Yes, Planet Zoo is more complex than JWE2 and has a higher influence on your resources; but that has much more to do with the game niche it is in than that it really has to do with its engine. Being mostly a sandbox oriented game with very few actual limitations in the game, the only real limitation you have is the resources of your computer. It's the name of the game with that sort of sandbox based games. Most games will put limitations on you so that you never really hit the limit of your computer. Sandbox games like this don't, and simply let you build until your computer can't handle it anymore. This is also the case for Planet Zoo, but that in itself won't be a reason to stop adding new stuff nor adding more complex stuff.

What I'm trying to say with this is not that you cannot be cautious about it. There's indeed a chance that Frontier will not introduce birds to this game. The reasons you mentioned above however don't seem to support that. It doesn't mean that they support the opposite either though.

The things we do know is that Planet Zoo is doing really well for Frontier, that Frontier has been very actively listening to their community in the past year with their DLCs, that the community really wants birds, that birds in exhibit like boxes are far far easier than diving and even digging ever was, and that after having the abiility to let animals freefly (which was already present in Planet Coaster's Cobra engine version) their engine now has a way to contain said free flying to a specific area (Jurassic World Evolution 2's aviaries).

All in all, if you are cautiously optimistic, there are plenty of signs that aviaries might very well make it into the game. Are these signs as certain as the signs that we were going to get an Australian and South American DLC in the first year of DLC releases? No. Are they a guarantee that they will be in the game? Absolutely not. But are the signs there? They for sure are. Even if you're cautious about it.

Is JWE2 a single thread game? Admittedly I am extremely limited in my computer understanding but from what was able to grasp, most newer games are multi-thread, meaning they can take advantage of systems with multiple CPUs while PZ is not - which seems to be the reason it tends to bork when zoos get too big/complicated/whatever.

As to the burrowing vs. other mechanics, I wasn't aware it wasn't a new system so that's good to know.

 

[biggest_dreamer]

The best of both worlds is a pack of habitat birds. We get more avian diversity while also ensuring that habitat animals aren't being put off in the backseat.

I do like this idea a lot, but I don't particularly expect it at this point given how hesitant Frontier has been to give us any DLC birds that aren't explicitly flightless. Like, I could see us getting a rhea or kiwi but anything beyond that feels out of reach given just how many times they've passed over opportunities to give us cranes or pheasants or secretary birds or what have you.

 

[ElectricMonk]

I do like this idea a lot, but I don't particularly expect it at this point given how hesitant Frontier has been to give us any DLC birds that aren't explicitly flightless. Like, I could see us getting a rhea or kiwi but anything beyond that feels out of reach given just how many times they've passed over opportunities to give us cranes or pheasants or secretary birds or what have you.

Perhaps they are saving flying birds for a reason…. For example, an aviary DLC?

 

[AmyEvans]

I kind of doubt we'll get new mechanics at this point in the game - general consensus seems to be that Frontier actively supports (most) games for about 3 years and we're heading to that point. The engine itself is starting to show it's age and limitations, they no longer have a large development team, etc. My best guess is that they are going to finish fine tuning the burrowing and diving mechanics (add more animals to those abilities), and finish up adding whatever animals they consider necessary for the remainder of the game's lifecycle. I don't get the impression that the game is making so much money that they'd go out of their normal cycle to extend work on this game, and even if they were - as I mentioned above, the game's underlying engine and mechanics are becoming dated (single threading being the largest obstacle to increasing game complexity). They might add some larger habitat birds that traditionally in zoos and are not always in roofed enclosures (cranes, flamingos, other large birds of various sorts), as part of their standard packs moving forward. I certainly doubt they'd also do a major overhaul of animal behaviors or animal care needs on top of it, so whatever birds we did/do get will have the same simplistic requirement sets as any other habitat species.

In a more communicative world, it'd be nice if Frontier said something like - well, free flying is too much work for a game this old/etc, sorry, maybe next time. Or no free flying but we'll be adding more larger birds or whatever. I know that's not their style and I'm not sure why they are so leery about transparency but I think that's due to them being an older game company, and no longer a start-up.

Wow where to start, it is just a lot of incorrect statements here, PZ is one of their biggest money makers, all of it is available online just a simple google search would show you a very different argument to the one your are making. If Frontier's plan was to add just a few more common bird species that work in similar ways to what is already available in the game, they definitely would have done so already, they had over two years of countless packs to do so. The fact that they have not attempted to do so, with the exception of the two penguin species and cassowary, should give you an indication that something has been brewing, furthermore they have remained very tight lipped about all things birds.

As far as the game's engine and current performance, it has only improved since the base game was launched, every update has made this game better. I think there absolutely nothing to worry about in this front, especially if we are considering that any aviary/birds dlc was already pre planned since base launch. Early on before the base game was released, during a live QA Frontier answered the question of flying birds with them being similar to diving mechanics and needing additional time. We received diving mechanics in December 2020.

To touch up on your last statement, there is nothing for them to say or communicate, it will be ready and available when it is, if it was not, you and everyone else would have heard about it a log while ago.

 

[biggest_dreamer]

Perhaps they are saving flying birds for a reason…. For example, an aviary DLC?

I mean, yeah, exactly. That's my point, I expect either a full-on aviary DLC or else no other birds that aren't explicitly flightless. I just don't see a non-aviary pack of habitat birds (which I took to imply things like pelicans, cranes, ibises, galliformes, etc.) at this point.

 

[AmyEvans]

I guess my "issue" with the notion that we'll likely only get 8 birds in an aviary pack (which I do agree is the most likely outcome) is that I would fully expect Frontier to continue releasing aviary birds in future DLC releases, which would undoubtedly cut into our future potential for terrestrial animals. And personally, there's still more terrestrial animals that I would like to see than there are remaining DLC species I expect to get. Is getting aviary birds worth cutting down on our likely limited future terrestrial lineup? I'm sure it is for a lot of people, but I can't make myself give a definitive answer. I realize, of course, that this is a "me" problem and has no bearing on what will or won't come to pass.

That said, as much as I'd love (and again: don't expect) to see more than 8 birds at once, I do think that's a sufficient number to cover a broad range of iconic species from different continents and biomes. Off the top of my head:

• Bald eagle
• Eurasian eagle owl or snowy owl
• White-backed vulture
• Great hornbill
• Bali mynah
• Laughing kookaburra
• Toco toucan
• Scarlet macaw

Obviously this could use some workshopping but I think it's a solid starting point. I doubt that many people could take issue with a list of this nature in and of itself.

A zoo without birds is no zoo at all.

 

[Mjmannella]

Good thing Planet Zoo already has 6 birds to choose from

 

[peafowl]

Good thing Planet Zoo already has 6 birds to choose from

i cried a little

 

[AmyEvans]

Good thing Planet Zoo already has 6 birds to choose from

That is so depressing But it is fact, only 6 birds to choose from, I think I can count more than 6 different bird species walking around my backyard, that is truly pathetic.

 

[Doran]

I mean, yeah, exactly. That's my point, I expect either a full-on aviary DLC or else no other birds that aren't explicitly flightless. I just don't see a non-aviary pack of habitat birds (which I took to imply things like pelicans, cranes, ibises, galliformes, etc.) at this point.

Agree. ,,Habitat,, birds pack would be offending joke for community. Either flying birds or no birds. I think frontier after 2 years understood this.

 

[NZFanatic]

Agree. ,,Habitat,, birds pack would be offending joke for community. Either flying birds or no birds. I think frontier after 2 years understood this.

Hard disagree. I'd love a habitat bird pack with some new non-flying birds. Emu, pelican, kiwi, ground hornbill, guinea fowl, Himalayan monal, and mute swan; I'd love it.

 

[Iben]

Is JWE2 a single thread game? Admittedly I am extremely limited in my computer understanding but from what was able to grasp, most newer games are multi-thread, meaning they can take advantage of systems with multiple CPUs while PZ is not - which seems to be the reason it tends to bork when zoos get too big/complicated/whatever..

JWE2 and PZ are both on version 20 of the Cobra Engine AFAWK. So yes, they both are single thread intensive for the GPU. Whereas there certainly are plenty of triple A games that are now multithreaded CPU wise, there still are plenty of single threaded games out there. Even new ones.

I think you can see the clear difference between what the genre does. JWE2 isn't such a sandbox game as the planet series, you are far more limited in terms of building. All their objects and buildings are prefabs and are therefore far more optimized. In Planet Zoo, you can be crazy and build an entire building with text signs (am I just giving a random example or did I do that myself, I'll never tell you) and the game doesn't stop you at all.

So the fact that PZ is more intensive than JWE2 whilst both being on the same engine, is also heavily impacted by the barely limited piece by piece building system. It's an intentional choice for the genre the game is in.

As to the burrowing vs. other mechanics, I wasn't aware it wasn't a new system so that's good to know.

I think it is also interesting to keep in mind that they needed an entire year to code/finetune deepdiving and that last year we haven't gotten a mechanic that is on the same level of that.

Don't get me wrong, they've pulled off some amazing things, but compared to deepdiving the closest thing you could find is digging and that is not as complex. I don't want to make it sound as if it isn't anything important or as if it wasn't hard to do, but comparing the complex navigation in a 3 dimensional space vs letting animals create spawn points is completely different.

If anything, it could very well be that Frontier spent most of last year implementing their flying/flying containment algorithm in PZ. Given that they share their engine, it wouldn't at all be unlikely for them to create the flying system in a way that can be shared in both games. It's like how we at our company don't write code to validate an e-mail address again and again for each project, instead we make a generic validator that we can use in multiple projects. It's a super common thing in development, so it isn't unlikely that Frontier did a similar thing for their free flying (containment).

 

[Mjmannella]

Agree. ,,Habitat,, birds pack would be offending joke for community. Either flying birds or no birds. I think frontier after 2 years understood this.

Could not disagree more. I would find it extremely unlikely that Frontier would add enough aviary birds to justify an entire pack. If they're only going to low-ball with a mere 7 aviary birds, would it even be worth the bother? Go big or go home I say.
Meanwhile, a pack of 7 habitat birds would be far more justified with less overall animals and could still offer birds that work in either open or closed exhibits like ibises and cranes.