Balance rewards for solo/open/group session

[Robert Maynard]

If this is done properly almost nobody would have a reason to play in solo or private sessions.

That's one opinion. Others may simply wish to play in Solo and / or Private Groups because they don't want to interact with other players - players who may be playingthe game quite differently to themselves.

The statement is also reminiscent of previous iterations of this particular debate where the next phase would be to request / demand the removal of Solo and Private Groups. Given the furore over the cancellation of offline mode, I doubt that Solo will ever be removed from this game.

Then, as mentioned, there's the issue where console players without premium platform access are restricted to playing in Solo.

 

[cmdr borschtl]

Risk vs Reward OK
But not on the trader / miner / explorer side, put it on the gankers side. Increase punishments for unprovoked attacks, increase the time and effort required to remove the restrictions on them.
Dont reward the prey, punish the bullies

but PvP is fun. Why put a penalty on it? Just make sure the people who get ganked aren't hurting too much over it so they need higher rewards for the non-combat stuff obviously.

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

Currently there is no incentive for explorers or traders to play in open.

That is correct.

There is an easy fix though:

It doesn't need one.

Happy to help, that'll be £10 please.

[uses desk intercom]

Send in the next one would you please Bridget.

 

[Robert Maynard]

well, in albion PvP is optional. It's possible to entirely avoid it if it's not your cup of tea and just farm some recource all day in peace if you want and people do that too but you will have to buy the higher tier items from the market as farming for those is only available in the PvP zones. So the highest rewards are then only obtainable through the market to the one who doesn't want to venture out into the risky areas.
Nobody suggested to remove any mode at all. What has been suggested was a balance to reflect increased risk in open mode with increased rewards so people have a reason to play in open. Understand that i'm a solo player who would love to play in open but it just doesn't make sense to me for non-combat stuff.

Not very optional if necessary features are PvP-gated in particular zones.

If Open play needs a bribe or coercion for players to choose to play there, is it worth playing in in the first place?

 

[Robert Maynard]

but PvP is fun. Why put a penalty on it? Just make sure the people who get ganked aren't hurting too much over it so they need higher rewards for the non-combat stuff obviously.

Fun is a subjective term. While PvP is no doubt "fun" for some players, for others it represents a tedious and predictable waste of their game time.

 

[cmdr borschtl]

That's one opinion. Others may simply wish to play in Solo and / or Private Groups because they don't want to interact with other players - players who may be playingthe game quite differently to themselves.

The statement is also reminiscent of previous iterations of this particular debate where the next phase would be to request / demand the removal of Solo and Private Groups. Given the furore over the cancellation of offline mode, I doubt that Solo will ever be removed from this game.

Then, as mentioned, there's the issue where console players without premium platform access are restricted to playing in Solo.

not from me, mate. I already said i'm a solo player and how the game currently works it is absolutely needed. With the model i suggest here there wouldn't be a reason to have solo mode removed ever because the idea is to just increase incentive of open. Solo can remain as is forever if it was up to me. I love the mode myself. I get what you're saying there. Other players can be immersion breakers, i get that.

 

[Brrokk]

Currently there is no incentive for explorers or traders to play in open. There is an easy fix though:
increase trade and exploration rewards by a factor of 3 for scanning or trading in openso people only earn 30% in solo of what they could earn in open. While you're at it also ad rewards for player kills no matter if they had a bounty or not. PvP needs a low base reward and higher special rewards for wanted players. It needs to be done in a way so even after all the ganking and PvP losses the average trader/explorer player should STILL be able to turn a higher profit than in solo. You need to take into account a change in playstyles then as short range exploration and trading would be more of a thing for people who try to minimize risks.

Also some balancing needs to happen to FSD interdiction regarding engineered interdictors vs badly outfitted ships. Currently the player in the bad ship can not escape the gank. There needs to be a chance for the lower gear player to escape the higher gear player in any and all situation BUT would require a lot of skill and flawless execution on his part. We can't have situations where gear trumps skill 100% otherwise it's just the dull grind for gear.

If this is done properly almost nobody would have a reason to play in solo or private sessions.

I'm an explorer. I mainly play solo because i don't see why i wouldn't. I have no issue with putting myself in danger though if i can see an apropriate reward for it. Give me an economic reason to play in open! Show me some risk/reward scenario that makes open attractive to me.

If this ever was considered some kind of safe zone system for new players needs to be expanded on. I think eve online (never played that myself though) aswell as albion online both these MMOs implemented that system well. In albion your loadout has an overall power level. In certain noob friendly blue and yellow zones they had an item power cap so better gear wouldn't lead to better results and people in low gear were competitive in those zones. Earning opportunities need to be limited in those areas to give an incentive to leave the area at some point. But the option to return to the safer space should still be there for those who wish to go back and train some more of farm low tier missions in peace and get ready to try again with the wild west outside the zone. Players need to be able to ease into the game at their own pace. This would turn PvP much more consensual.

I think the rewards are the biggest issue though and really needs adressing. Why not turn this into a proper MMO? Look at the successful stuff others did before.

tl,dr: decrease rewards in no and low risk areas like solo and group sessions and increase rewards in open to give people more incentive to actually use open mode for non-combat stuff. Currently the risk/reward is biased towards solo and group sessions because same reward but lower risk. Please fix the rewards!

Not again.

No incentive is needed for people to play in Open because it's not a special mode. Everyone has access to all the modes so there's perfect balance, and everyone just needs to choose the mode which gives them the game experience they want.

 

[Riverside]

The modes are already balanced. In Open I get help far more often than I face any kind of threat from other players.

 

[Brrokk]

deja vu I swear I've seen this thread before.

You're right, let's give it the award now.

 

[Jmanis]

100% agree this needs to be adressed properly. We can't have these easy loopholes in that. For example: only if the star was scanned AND the data sold both aswell as all the distance traveled in open you would get the higher reward. So you really have to play in open to get the reward. No loopholes!

Think that doesn't have loopholes? Cute.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Players can travel in Open without ever being able to be attacked by players in the same instance - on board a Carrier (which can be fueled by players in any game mode)....

 

[cmdr borschtl]

okok, guys. At least i mentioned it though XD

 

[Misty_Dark]

"So the "extra" risk in open is hard to quantify, as the risk is alot more based on chance than an actual risk. "

that's why i actually said 70% increase not only 30%. Even after you got ganked 3 times on your way to your mining spot you should still turn a profit if you manage do the 4th run successfully. See what i'm saying here? Reward the risk so people want to opt in to take that risk because it's worth it.

Wow, lets read this again, "ON YOUR WAY TO", translation, without any mining cargo... so what about you have spent an 1hour or so mining and now flying back to sell your stuff? how does getting ganked then work?

not only do you ahve to pay a rebuy, but now, you have lost all that time mining..



Not very convincing arguments, because they are not balanced in any way to actually do what you are suggesting.

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

Who is paying my console subscription fee to get me to play in open?

 

[cmdr borschtl]

Wow, lets read this again, "ON YOUR WAY TO", translation, without any mining cargo... so what about you have spent an 1hour or so mining and now flying back to sell your stuff? how does getting ganked then work?

not only do you ahve to pay a rebuy, but now, you have lost all that time mining..



Not very convincing arguments, because they are not balanced in any way to actually do what you are suggesting.

ok, you got ganked. Now rebuy your suff and try again. If you are successfull the second time your overall profit should still be higher than the profit of the person who ganked you. Getting ganked will be routine and you wouldn't mind so much because your earnings are increased dramatically to balance the ganking costs.

 

[Misty_Dark]

but PvP is fun. Why put a penalty on it? Just make sure the people who get ganked aren't hurting too much over it so they need higher rewards for the non-combat stuff obviously.

And here it is, most explores do not care about PvP... so this is nothing else than what the all the other open only threads are about, bringing in more targets for the PvP crowd...

What is next, remove the block function?

 

[Misty_Dark]

ok, you got ganked. Now rebuy your suff and try again. If you are successfull the second time your overall profit should still be higher than the profit of the person who ganked you. Getting ganked will be routine and you wouldn't mind so much because your earnings are increased dramatically to balance the ganking costs.

And you styll REFUSE to get it... run the same scenario where you get ganked AFTER filling up your ship with diamonds, painite or whatever you mined.

How does that now work it could be hours of mining gone in an instant! so now you have to redo all again, and hope that you do not get ganked again on your way BACK!


Lets do it this way, for every ship you kill, we retract monetary value of any cargo/exploration data/war bonds/bounties from your CMDR balance. now would you target that Type 9 filled to the brim with LTD?

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

Open, players get to fight each other, if they like that sort of thing. They have been rewarded.


If you think you should receive higher rewards for mining or trading in open because of the risks, then so should the noob playing in solo because an NPC chasing down a 2 hour old CMDR for their tasty cargo is likely to get blown up, we see threads about it all the time. So now you're in complex territory because a noob being chased by NPCs in solo is as at much risk as an semi-experienced player in open doing the same activities. How you balancing that?

 

[cmdr borschtl]

And you styll REFUSE to get it... run the same scenario where you get ganked AFTER filling up your ship with diamonds, painite or whatever you mined.

How does that now work it could be hours of mining gone in an instant! so now you have to redo all again, and hope that you do not get ganked again on your way BACK!


Lets do it this way, for every ship you kill, we retract monetary value of any cargo/exploration data/war bonds/bounties from your CMDR balance. now would you target that Type 9 filled to the brim with LTD?

again: you lost a hold of cargo. The reward you get for your next load needs to be high enough to have the costs from your first loss be covered. Basically you being ganked needs to be factored into the reward even before you actually got ganked. Meaning: If you manage to not get ganked you get a high reward vs if you get ganked once you still earn an okay reward if you manage to not get ganked on the second run.
Getting ganked needs to be part of the reward equation. That's what the thread is all about.

 

[cmdr borschtl]

Open, players get to fight each other, if they like that sort of thing. They have been rewarded.


If you think you should receive higher rewards for mining or trading in open because of the risks, then so should the noob playing in solo because an NPC chasing down a 2 hour old CMDR for their tasty cargo is likely to get blown up, we see threads about it all the time. So now you're in complex territory because a noob being chased by NPCs in solo is as at much risk as an semi-experienced player in open doing the same activities. How you balancing that?

Since the noob will improve so fast this doesn't need to be balanced.