Balancing of NPC piracy

As per the title, only balancing, no discussion of features intended with this ..

As it stands NPC piracy is way lower than most other activities in terms of profit and is way more skill based and risky than most. It requires:
- good knowledge of economy states related to BGS
- lots of scouting and prep work
- good outfitting skills
- a LOT of patience
- decent combat skills (ever tried to bump stop?)
- plenty of rum

My request/suggestion: miner ships should spawn not only LTDs (they also frequently spawn leather but that's another issue), but a selection of all the highest value minerals, Void Opals included!

This probably isn't enough to rival many other activities, but it's a start.
 
Improve the black market system.

At present the flat rate 25% off is particularly dull, and could be much more varied by a state/economy/government/superpower equation to give a percentage.

Imagine if it could range from -25% to +25%.

Cheaper things sold in the right system would fetch much better prices, as they become a item of demand.
 
The problem with piracy's game design is honestly most visible when you compare piracy missions to liberate missions - it's as though a lot of the time people on the design team forget that illegal options even exist. Smuggling missions still break if they offer a material reward and your store for that material is full.

Liberate - when allied, you're asked to fetch 4-8 tons of a particular, mission-specific commodity. The target is carrying exactly that amount of that commodity, and they also carry a bunch of other cargo that drops afterwards, that you can swipe and sell for some extra gravy if you're so inclined. When you hatchbreak them, the mission cargo drops first. The target is invariably wanted, so you don't get attention from the cops and you can blow them up for the bounty when you're done robbing them of you're so inclined.
Liberate missions are great.

Piracy missions - you're asked to fetch 90-130 tons of some commodity, which rules out all small and most medium ships for the task immediately. The target is not wanted, so you have to deal with the cops if you don't get them in an anarchy system. The target only carries that mission commodity, and if you steal extra then it's still marked as mission cargo so you don't even get to keep the bonus. You can't take them unless you have the cargo space available right now.
I very rarely take piracy missions. It's telling that the legal version of the "find some guy and steal their stuff" mission is worth doing and the illegal one is not.

As for signal sources? Threat 2 convoy signal sources will spawn a military T9 escorted by two condas, or two T9s accompanied by four vultures. If you scan them, they're carrying... a ton each of antiquities, plus some other dross. Jacking that cargo is not worth the time or risk of taking on those escorts. A low-volume high-value heist would be a great scenario, but the value of the stuff they carry isn't actually worth it.

There is one signal source scenario that's actually fun as all hell - namely, the one where half a dozen T7s spawn and then you get the choice of defending the convoy or helping the raid. If you choose to help the raid, you're told to hatchbreak them - the pirates just want to grab 10t of insulating membrane off them, which is fine, but they're also carrying other stuff. The stuff is usually the likes of domestic appliances admittedly, but all of it is pure profit. If the stuff in these convoy heist scenarios was more lucrative (or you got missions to direct you to this scenario) then it'd be amazing, but the extra stuff you can steal seems to be balanced towards the earnings that were available when the game just launched, where a ton of domestic appliances was a fantastic haul (rather like the first fast and the furious movie, where the AMAZING HEIST was for CRT TVs with built-in VCRs)

The big thing about a lot of legal missions is that you get a bonus in the form of bounty payments afterwards, plus usually you get help from authority ships. Piracy missions, and illegal missions in general, you don't get the opportunity for that bonus (if anything, the recent bounty buff has only increased the disparity!) and the cops are a hindrance rather than a help.

That, and honestly - in the time it takes to track down a target for this BIG SCORE of 1 ton of antiquities or whatever and get away under fire from half a dozen navy ships, I could have dropped on literally any metallic ring and safely mined several times that value in gold and platinum, hell even silver.
 
They should probably make it so you cant just sit outside an anarchy station stealing goods off ships, and nothing happening.
Kinda makes piracy very easy and very low risk.
Get a hatch breaker and a collector limpet (optional), look at galaxy map for an anarchy system. go steal stuff from ships not belonging to the station faction.

But yes, Piracy needs some love.
 
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They should probably make it so you cant just sit outside an anarchy station stealing goods off ships, and nothing happening.
Kinda makes piracy very easy and very low risk.
Get a hatch breaker and a collector limpet (optional), look at galaxy map for an anarchy system. go steal stuff from ships not belonging to the station faction.

But yes, Piracy needs some love.
Honestly, the value of the goods you steal that way is pretty low and if you accidentally hatchbreak one belonging to the station's faction they'll kill you.

If you want to compare it like for like - as in, "I want to do this activity right now, so I'm going to take my ship that is built for that thing to a location for that thing", it's a pretty poor earner compared to just about any other activity.
 
Honestly, my last post touches on the main issue with piracy compared to other content - the reliability of being able to do it when you're in the mood for it.

If you want to mine, you get in your mining ship, then you head to your favourite hotspot where you know there will be shinies to mine out, especially if you're using a mapped route.
If you want to bounty hunt, you get in your combat ship and go to the local haz-res where you know there will be pirates.
If you want to trade, you get in a cargo ship and, even if EDDB is out of date, even the in-game tools aren't bad for finding a half-decent route.
If you want to do base bombings, hit up the mission board and there's a good chance you'll find them.

If you want to pirate though, it's a roll of the dice. Even in optimal conditions there's no way of knowing something will spawn worth looting. Even if you stumble across something while doing something else you're humped - if I'm doing trading and see a good stack of massacre missions, I can take them and come back with a combat ship. If I'm doing exploration and see a fantastic double-hotspot, I can bookmark it and come back with a miner. If I'm in a mining ship and I see a T7 in supercruise in an industrial no-ring system with a refinary on board though? I know there's good odds that thing is full of LTDs, but if I dock somewhere to change ships they're gone with no guarantee another will spawn. At least signal sources give you a timer!
 
Piracy only compares vaguely favorably with the rest when pirating LTDs, but of course you're not going to get a consistent supply of that, you shouldn't.
For anything else, trading is much more profitable. And takes less skill, and effort. And is more reliable. Let's not even mention mining of course, even after the so-called nerf.

So fundamentally when designing piracy you need to answer the question: why do it, what's the draw*. This is a question Frontier has always failed to address tbh.
Is piracy supposed to be purely an opportunistic, bottom-feeding activity for those who can't pass the 'skill' checks required when trading (buy low, sell high)? It certainly pays like it was designed that way (what with the fencing penalty and the inability to target specific goods reliably and therefore make use of local BGS conditions to the fullest), but the effort is much higher. And most importantly, the advent of third party trade tools have rendered those skill checks completely moot, and so is the income segregation.

Is piracy supposed to be a high risk, high reward activity ala bank heist, for those with the skill and the inclination? There are some very artificial scenarios which seem to try to go this route, but the pay again doesn't match the effort, and of course they rely on tacky set-piece USS scenarios which have less to do with putting to dishonest use your skills in a living breathing universe, than taking part in the latest pirate-themed park ride thrown in by the devs to try and placate us. There isn't any organic high end piracy (pirating LTDs doesn't count, there's no more skill involved there than in pirating fish to justify the comparatively higher reward).

* we're talking about extrinsic rewards here, I don't want to hear "for the fun of it" as that should be a given for any activity you engage in.
 
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Sorry gotta say it Op .
Piracy needs a grappling hook. !@@#@
I asked about them in the AMA yesterday and basically got blown off. Im going to ask again next week and see if there is a different result.

Back on topic I think piracy would make a good way to use some of the lesser minerals that miners usually overlook. Alexandrite, monazite, and Rhodplumsite for example. The selling price is very low next to the more popular ones but if enough NPCs carry them it shouldn't break the bank either. It would also reward skill based gameplay. If you pull a T6 carrying 80T of Monazite an unskilled pirate will only catch a handful of canisters from having hit it once or twice with a hatchbreaker. The skilled players who are able to shoot the drives, slow it down, dissable all of the PDs without killing it will get as much as they can carry.
 
Is piracy supposed to be a high risk, high reward activity ala bank heist, for those with the skill and the inclination? There are some very artificial scenarios which seem to try to go this route, but the pay again doesn't match the effort, and of course they rely on tacky set-piece USS scenarios which have less to do with putting to dishonest use your skills in a living breathing universe, than taking part in the latest pirate-themed park ride thrown in by the devs to try and placate us.
Honestly, if things like sap-8 core containers and the like had a massive boost in value, and there were other things like...
"Here is a T9. Their escort is literally a spec ops wing. They are carrying 1 ton of a stupendously valuable commodity and by when I say stupendous I mean literally an order of magnitude more valuable than anything mineable. Your mission, if you're feeling ballsy enough, is to swipe that sucker and get the hell out of there before the aforementioned spec ops team rips you a new one."
 
Honestly, if things like sap-8 core containers and the like had a massive boost in value, and there were other things like...
"Here is a T9. Their escort is literally a spec ops wing. They are carrying 1 ton of a stupendously valuable commodity and by when I say stupendous I mean literally an order of magnitude more valuable than anything mineable. Your mission, if you're feeling ballsy enough, is to swipe that sucker and get the hell out of there before the aforementioned spec ops team rips you a new one."

And then the issue is currently, given the current mechanics, what skill check can you use to justify such a high reward, that also can't just be skipped by engineering. They could be ATR'd up to encourage the player to use stealth, but the stealth mechanics are basic as can be, so there isn't much room for skill-based gameplay to let you snatch the cargo unseen, given the rather basic level design you would get to play with: mostly empty space. It's either all too easy (as is currently the case), or near impossible.
We can look at megaship cargo looting as it is currently (or was before the cargo bug), where silent running is enough to just ignore the whole police response thing for an idea of how this would pan out without further work on stealth gameplay.
 
And then the issue is currently, given the current mechanics, what skill check can you use to justify such a high reward, that also can't just be skipped by engineering.
1 ton of something worth 10 million that you still need to find a fence for isn't that high a reward compared to some of the other stuff out there. You can get delivery missions that pay twice as much.
 
Honestly, the value of the goods you steal that way is pretty low and if you accidentally hatchbreak one belonging to the station's faction they'll kill you.

If you want to compare it like for like - as in, "I want to do this activity right now, so I'm going to take my ship that is built for that thing to a location for that thing", it's a pretty poor earner compared to just about any other activity.
Type Nines with LTDs are lower value now, so I guess that is correct "now".
 
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