Balancing of NPC piracy

[LifesAJourney]

Do report on your findings. It will be interesting to know how much effect it has.

It looks to me like RNG decides everything in Cupisii while favoring this place heavily comparing to other "perfect fit" systems I've tried before. The quantity of data I've gathered is still very small but I can't see any influence of the system state on LTD supply so far.

My story in this system so far. All sessions during last two weeks or so:

• Boom/Civil liberty: 1 hour of pirating (more or less), 4 ships robbed, 84 LTDs combined
• Boom/Civil liberty: 1.5 hrs, 6 ships, 439 LTDs
• Boom/Civil liberty: 2 hrs, 7 ships, 247 LTDs
• Boom: 2 hrs, 8 ships, 376 LTDs
• Boom/Expansion: 2.5 hrs, 8 ships, 235 LTDs
• Boom/Expansion: 0.5 hrs, 3 ships, 55 LTDs
• Boom/Expansion/War: 2 hrs, 7 ships, 149 LTDs
• Boom/War: 1 hrs, 4 ships, 44 LTDs
• Boom/War: 2 hrs, 8 ships, 183 LTDs
• Boom/War: 1 hrs, 5 ships, 199 LTDs

Totals (and averages):

• about 15,5 hours
• 57 ships (3.68 per hour)
• 2011 LTDs (129.74 per hour, 35.28 per ship)

Some remarks:

• I check every ship I see.
• I rob every ship that hauls LTDs. Even if it's 1T from a Sidey.
• I lost 5 ships to rob (including 300+T Type-9) because I was too much trigger-happy or they were spamming mines and suiciding this way. Or both.
• Refinery last at the modules list doesn't assure that the ship hauls LTDs. I'd say it gives 90% probability but definitely not 100%.
• Refinery second last at the modules list doesn't assure that the ship doesn't haul LTDs. I'd say it gives 90% probability but definitely not 100%.
• If the ship does not haul LTDs she hauls worthless crap.
• Type-9s hauling even 300+T and Type-7s hauling 120-150T do happen if not very often.

 

[Tobias Saffron]

I usually find the T7s or T9s spawn after 55 minutes when I can only play for 1 hour.

 

[CaptainPugwash]

It looks to me like RNG decides everything in Cupisii while favoring this place heavily comparing to other "perfect fit" systems I've tried before. The quantity of data I've gathered is still very small but I can't see any influence of the system state on LTD supply so far.

My story in this system so far. All sessions during last two weeks or so:

• Boom/Civil liberty: 1 hour of pirating (more or less), 4 ships robbed, 84 LTDs combined
• Boom/Civil liberty: 1.5 hrs, 6 ships, 439 LTDs
• Boom/Civil liberty: 2 hrs, 7 ships, 247 LTDs
• Boom: 2 hrs, 8 ships, 376 LTDs
• Boom/Expansion: 2.5 hrs, 8 ships, 235 LTDs
• Boom/Expansion: 0.5 hrs, 3 ships, 55 LTDs
• Boom/Expansion/War: 2 hrs, 7 ships, 149 LTDs
• Boom/War: 1 hrs, 4 ships, 44 LTDs
• Boom/War: 2 hrs, 8 ships, 183 LTDs
• Boom/War: 1 hrs, 5 ships, 199 LTDs

Totals (and averages):

• about 15,5 hours
• 57 ships (3.68 per hour)
• 2011 LTDs (129.74 per hour, 35.28 per ship)

Some remarks:

• I check every ship I see.
• I rob every ship that hauls LTDs. Even if it's 1T from a Sidey.
• I lost 5 ships to rob (including 300+T Type-9) because I was too much trigger-happy or they were spamming mines and suiciding this way. Or both.
• Refinery last at the modules list doesn't assure that the ship hauls LTDs. I'd say it gives 90% probability but definitely not 100%.
• Refinery second last at the modules list doesn't assure that the ship doesn't haul LTDs. I'd say it gives 90% probability but definitely not 100%.
• If the ship does not haul LTDs she hauls worthless crap.
• Type-9s hauling even 300+T and Type-7s hauling 120-150T do happen if not very often.

Thanks for that, that’s some great data!

 

[Flying Scorpion]

Late to the discussion but I have also found NPC piracy to be quite unrewarding. Why don't they carry any of the new stuff like Musgravite? If they carried stuff like that, there would not only be more variety in the rewards but more credits too. I also agree with all of you that private and military couriers should be carrying more valuable hauls. It doesn't really make sense to see a wing of high security forces and a huge ship with a pathetic amount of loot inside of it.

Should we start a thread in the suggestions subforum?

 

[SamePanda57]

Late to the discussion but I have also found NPC piracy to be quite unrewarding.

Depends what you mean by unrewarding. If you mean financially, then it's not as good as combat/mining but you can still make good money. I've stolen over 500 tons of LTDs this weekend. Even if it's not as financially rewarding as other activities it's still a lot more fun than most other activities

Why don't they carry any of the new stuff like Musgravite? If they carried stuff like that, there would not only be more variety in the rewards but more credits too.

They do, but (apart from LTDs) the probability of one commodity is the same as any other, so while you can get some good hauls you mostly get cheap tat.

I also agree with all of you that private and military couriers should be carrying more valuable hauls. It doesn't really make sense to see a wing of high security forces and a huge ship with a pathetic amount of loot inside of it.

I'm hoping that when Frontier resume their balance passes they consider piracy. This is something simple that would make a huge difference, and isn't tied to other activities in the way the current meta is and so is much less likely to get broken the next time they make a change to mining or trade

 

[Flying Scorpion]

I'm not really doing piracy for profit. I got into piracy thinking that I could use it to generate black market income in my system to influence the BGS.

 

[khalismur]

Piracy never paid too much for the work input needed, but it was acceptable back when LTD were very pricey. They totally forgot about piracy when they nerfed mining and didn't include the now-more-valuable stuff into hauling ships spawns. I'm afraid Frontier have their hands very full with Odyssey and will have to work on bugfixing and balancing it after its release for many months, pushing back piracy and other much needed issues that need balance into oblivion Hope to be proven wrong of course.

 

[Flying Scorpion]

Piracy never paid too much for the work input needed, but it was acceptable back when LTD were very pricey. They totally forgot about piracy when they nerfed mining and didn't include the now-more-valuable stuff into hauling ships spawns. I'm afraid Frontier have their hands very full with Odyssey and will have to work on bugfixing and balancing it after its release for many months, pushing back piracy and other much needed issues that need balance into oblivion Hope to be proven wrong of course.

Yes that would be great if they could/would fix it soon. It's not like we can even post a bug report or something. Would it be better to put this feedback into the feedback subforum? Or will Fdev be just as likely to see this even though it's in the regular "dangerous discussion" subforum?

One of my favorite things about games like Stellaris, Minecraft, Mount & Blade, Fallout, etc, is that players can mod the game to fix problems. It sucks having to sit on our hands while we wait for someone else to (hopefully) fix problems. Perhaps that's all we can do for this issue.

 

[LifesAJourney]

Should we start a thread in the suggestions subforum?

There are some already. Discussing more or less the same stuff as we discuss here, getting to more or less the same conclusions as we get here to. However, is there any evidence that FDEV looks at this subforum at the first place? Considering how often the suggestions are contradictory or just bad and/or ridiculous, I'd be surprised if anyone takes them seriously...

But maybe you're right, anyway. If we create yet another thread in suggestions subforum and make it alive for weeks/months/years, maybe eventually NPC piracy will get a decent revamp? Or maybe we could ask forum admins to move this thread to suggestions?

 

[CaptainPugwash]

There are some already. Discussing more or less the same stuff as we discuss here, getting to more or less the same conclusions as we get here to. However, is there any evidence that FDEV looks at this subforum at the first place? Considering how often the suggestions are contradictory or just bad and/or ridiculous, I'd be surprised if anyone takes them seriously...

But maybe you're right, anyway. If we create yet another thread in suggestions subforum and make it alive for weeks/months/years, maybe eventually NPC piracy will get a decent revamp? Or maybe we could ask forum admins to move this thread to suggestions?

I just added a new thread there as well.

 

[LifesAJourney]

Cool. Let's just move out discussions there to keep the new thread alive.

Maybe you could request closing this one?

 

[Viscera]

Suggestions are suggestions, discussion is discussion. Have both as they should run to different melodys.

Piracy. My thoughts:

You will never make the amount of credits that you make with the less interesting professions.

You will make a living though, and if you plug away you could finance your whole time with it. It just takes a bit longer to attain the numbers.

For me, its not about the credits though. I like the multi involved skillset required to do it, from basic piracy of npc in an anarchy, right up to player piracy in high security systems whilst dodging gankers who are just as happy to shoot you up as any trade ship there.

Building that ultimate ship is my real piracy goal, the "one ring to rule them all" ship, that allows ME to pirate in all styles however I wish at the time. I am close to this now, but its not fully realised as yet.

Carriers have added an awesome layer to piracy for me. The fact I can now store loot up between raids is fantastic, and I can flit around systems much more freely, without worrying about selling loot between jobs.

The carrier then adds a sideline to my Piracy career. - Smuggling.
The safe disposal of the loot is often not mentioned. There is another load of layers of gameplay to add to the piracy skillset here. This is where you make the credits... It is actually quite a good one to pay attention too if you wish to make respectable amounts.

 

[Viscera]

It will also be interesting to see what piracy options exist with the release of oddyssy.

The tools seem to be in place for breaking and entry.

What options for sales of hot power cores will we see though..

It bears great promise...

 

[LifesAJourney]

The aspect I like the most in piracy is variety. There are so many variables involved, especially in non-anarchy systems, that not a single act of robbery is the same.

Having said that, I have to look for LTDs and have to do it in Cupisii, because any other commodity and/or any other system results in much lower rewards comparing to LTDs in Cupisii. No point in looking for some other systems or even groups of systems fulfilling a specific set of conditions (like: musgravite hotspots in system A, a decent demand of musgravite in system B 20-ish Ly away).

Regarding Odyssey: I don't believe anything is gonna change piracy-wise, sadly.

 

[LifesAJourney]

Just popped in Cupisii to see how do the things look if it's not in Boom state (it's now Civil Liberty, Expansion, War).

45 minutes, 3 ships, 136T of LTDs (25T more left at the crime scene, cargo full).

I think I'm done with this one. Obviously modified to always provide LTDs. Not a challenge at all. I'm going to hunt other systems.

 

[CaptainPugwash]

Just popped in Cupisii to see how do the things look if it's not in Boom state (it's now Civil Liberty, Expansion, War).

45 minutes, 3 ships, 136T of LTDs (25T more left at the crime scene, cargo full).

I think I'm done with this one. Obviously modified to always provide LTDs. Not a challenge at all. I'm going to hunt other systems.

I don't wanna be a killjoy, BUT 136t is what, 35m at the BM? And you are a practised pirate at a well known piracy system - hardly easy pickings lol.

 

[Flying Scorpion]

I'm finding it difficult to recruit new players into piracy because the incentive of making more credits/hour/effort is higher with other activities like massacre stacking or map mining. I'm not the best salesman but when they ask how much credits they can make from piracy and I give it to them straight, it's hard to keep them around when they can get a carrier in literally days of stacking massacre missions.

 

[LifesAJourney]

I don't wanna be a killjoy, BUT 136t is what, 35m at the BM? And you are a practised pirate at a well known piracy system - hardly easy pickings lol.

That's not the point of my verification. The point is that this system does not give a damn about BGS-related conditions of spawning LTD ships. It seems to spawn them always and is the only one I've seen doing so. Which makes me think it has been manually modified by FDEV to do it. Sort of Jameson's Crash Site of piracy.

I'm finding it difficult to recruit new players into piracy because the incentive of making more credits/hour/effort is higher with other activities like massacre stacking or map mining. I'm not the best salesman but when they ask how much credits they can make from piracy and I give it to them straight, it's hard to keep them around when they can get a carrier in literally days of stacking massacre missions.

Well, at the moment it's rather a way of having fun for someone who doesn't need to make credits anymore. There are much better ways of making credits, if more boring. Therefore we try to push FDEV for giving some love to NPC piracy to make it even more fun but also more profitable.

 

[Semivivus]

...miner ships should spawn not only LTDs (they also frequently spawn leather...

BDSM gear in a mining ship - who would´ve thought?!

 

[Viscera]

Re credits...

I have an alt account. I went straight out of the new zone, and scanned some systems. I made enough doing this buy a viper 4, and fit it mostly d rated, as a pirate ship.
I took it to a res and robbed two loads of ltd from ships there... 32t max.
Two runs was enough to fully A rate it, stick decent armour on, and let it go out and rob easier...
A few more runs got me an Asp explorer, d rated, with an a rated fsd.
I then went off for some engineering work... Unlocking 3 engineers with ease (blackmarkets, check piracy) 300 light years getting meta thing unlocks deciat, and a side trip to nguri after.
I was then able to upgrade the viper 4 for more piracy.
It got me a krait phantom, a rated, in very short order.
I did not consider credits per hour in any of this, but for ship progression it was more than adequate as a form of income... And I had a lot of fun doing it...