BAN THE FSS OR MAKE AN ALTERNATIVE
- Thread starter ALIEN ORIGINS
- Start date
yeah peace man.I was responding to you btw. Im not doubting your credentials BTW its just that you can go 1000ly and people still moaning evrything is tagged. Obviously that wasnt what you did.
You say you don't doubt me but then doubt me in the same statement lol. I moved 500Ly away to the side of the bubble then went to the top the galaxy and traveled to omega at a downward long sloping angle. I'd tell you to go out and find my systems but you don't play anymore haha. The ads is not coming back move on or adapt dude either way best of luck to you.
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You win.
So you went somewhere already explored and it filled the system map for you? Is this another case of somebody praising the FSS who doesnt know how it works or am i wrong?
Edit: ill explain. When you go somewhere somebody else has been you get the system map. When you go to a virgin system you get nothing. This is why "tourists" (politely) dont mind it but explorers hate it.
Edit2: You going to find that out if you circumnavigate, take me up on my challenge
Begrudgingly felt the need to respond to this because of the edits but I'm starting to agree with azmuth this thread is becoming a big stinking dead horse and I've taken more than enough whacks at it. With the fss I can see if the system is unexplored by how many planets are detected and whether they show up on my radar after honking. Then I simply enter fss and check the bottom of the screen to see what type of planet signals are present to know if it's worth the time.
Tourist applies more to yourself in this sense since you want a predetermined map to show you if stuff is worth looking at and its exact location. We fss users use our ships instruments and observations with them to determine that and whether they are valuable and unmapped. You don't have to zoom in and scan anything to find that stuff out unless your hung up on finding certain colored planets for some reason.
And it isn't about winning this has just gotten exhausting. When I say its not coming back that's a educated guess based on the fact that no future big changes are coming down the pike anytime soon or maybe even ever for this version of elite. The last major update replaced the ads with the fss and it would likely take another one to reverse this and they already said no more big updates will be happening until 2020. This cake is likely already baked you can't change it from chocolate back to vanilla at this point. Ftr I don't care if they bring it back and if they even axed the fss to do so. I'd be pretty disappointed but I wouldn't complain over and over and talk about how I quit playing but still want to request changes. o7 burke
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Okay, lets say by some modern miracle FD are taking notice of those demanding the return of the ADS and do just that, give the player when in outfitting the choice to remove the FSS/DSS modules and install the old ADS (cos lets face it, only a brain dead idiot would fit an IDS or BDS) and the old DSS module. Yes, FD made the correct decision, you can't have a little from Column A and a little from Column B, you have to chose on the old system or the new system, no bits from one and the other. Congratulations, your ship is basically at 3.2 configuration.
But how many would do that to all their ships? Sure some might do it to their exploration ship but I will bet that they retain the FSS/DSS combination for all their other ships because the game now requires the use of FSS. Want to go mining, good luck finding that Void Opal hotspot without mapping the ring first with the new DSS. After some surface maps, have fun aimlessly flying over the surface trying to find the POI where 90% of the surface mats are conveniently located now. Fancy doing one of those new drop in missions but you have to quickly grab a refuelling limpet at the nearest station - hope your special awareness is top notch to locate that semi-persistent USS again.
But how many would do that to all their ships? Sure some might do it to their exploration ship but I will bet that they retain the FSS/DSS combination for all their other ships because the game now requires the use of FSS. Want to go mining, good luck finding that Void Opal hotspot without mapping the ring first with the new DSS. After some surface maps, have fun aimlessly flying over the surface trying to find the POI where 90% of the surface mats are conveniently located now. Fancy doing one of those new drop in missions but you have to quickly grab a refuelling limpet at the nearest station - hope your special awareness is top notch to locate that semi-persistent USS again.
Spot on M00ka the fss bashers seem to overlook all the benefits it gives us in so many areas.
Why does it need to be one or the other? That's like saying if you want to use a fixed weapon on your ship, you cannot also use gimballed or turreted. Surely players should be able to choose the right tool for the job, or the tool that they want to use for a certain job.
As you rightly point out, the FSS (as well as being blindingly quick when it comes to identifying, locating, scanning and tagging bodies) is absolutely necessary to identify the presence of POI's, and the DSS is necessary to identify their locations. Assuming that's what a player wants to do, of course they'll use the FSS / DSS.
But if you want to locate unusual system layouts, unusual planetary orbits, or strangely colored gas giants, an ADS system map view would be the logical tool to use.
Just let players use whatever combination of tools they need to do the job (in this case different exploration goals) most efficiently, and most importantly the most fun and least frustrating way. It seems to me the very arguments people are using to say why an optional ADS shouldn't be a tool that players can choose to use seem to me to illustrate exactly why it should be available, because if you want to do something like mining or looking for POI's without an FSS you are going to be out of luck and frustrated...
Well, that's how players feel when they are trying to find things that the FSS doesn't reveal. (And USS can be identified by scanning the nav beacon, and they'll be right there in your nav panel when you leave the station and go back to SC.)
For the record, the main reason I keep posting in these threads, having made an exploration trip to test out the FSS, and finding it very easy to use, not to mention greatly speeding up the exploration process, so I'm not a hater and can absolutely understand why many players would like it a lot, is simply that I can't understand people's hostility to their fellow players desire to have a style of exploration that they enjoyed returned to them, especially considering what is (generally) being asked for would not affect their game-play at all.
And I'll add considering the thread I'm posting this in that I do not want or expect the FSS to be removed or changed in any way, and nor do most of the people who are asking for an optional ADS module to be made available. They are quite happy for it to exist, they just want an alternative tool to use.
Surprisingly I have thought about this, and yes it will in fact change the way the FSS works, simply because the data the old ADS provided was sufficient to fill in the Orrery, what you are effectively asking for is for the location, distance and orbit of all the bodies to be discovered by the ADS, yet to still require using the FSS to hunt bodies that we have already located. So what you want is that ADS users get instance location data and orbits and an Orrery, but FSS users still be required to spend time finding out the orbits and distance of the bodies, which simply doesn't make sense mechanically or procedural. For it to make any sense that navigational data needs to be removed because that is part of the data we are finding when using the FSS.
Basically if a body appears in the nav panel you have already located it, so why are we searching for it in the FSS, they should all just appear as located already! It's fundamental conflicts like this we need to be careful of, either you have located and have nav data to it or you haven't, you can't have it located in one interface and not located in another. There are other issues I can go through but I won't at the moment, but you can see that it's not that simple, some sort of compromise, just not the return of the old ADS wholesale because that doesn't work.
Why? Just let it go. You have virtue signaled, told me im wrong and then gloated cause the ADS is gone. Job done, let that horse alone now.
All the cool kids know being hostile towards the old style is the right thing to do. They might know nothing about exploration and they definately wont think for themselfs but somebody on reddit told how the FSS is FDs greatest triumph and armed with that info they come to the forums to try and swamp any threads asking for the ADS back with their drivel
Its gone way past being about the game anymore, its forum warriors.Edit: for the record, even tho i will keep asking i dont expect the old ADS will come back and i certainly dont expect it back cause i asked. I gave some consideration to asking braben on twitter but considering the chances of sucess i didnt feel it was worth my time to make an acount just to ask that one question.
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Disagree entirely with giving the players the option to chose the best parts of a feature. It would be akin to me demanding that whilst I like the new mining tools, I don't want to carry seismic charges so I want to be able to extract core deposits with my mining lasers. Or I like the new engineering but want to still be able to get a God Roll, so I demand FD keeps grades 1 to 4 the same, but I want the option to continue rolling Grade 5's until I get some mythical god roll.
Most of those demanding (yes I use that word a lot because that is what they are doing, demanding FD gives into their requests) want the ADS back but I suspect many haven't thought through the repercussions of their umm request. They want all the features of the old system, in conjunction with all the features of the new system, that is just being greedy and very short minded. If a player really doesn't either want to use the FSS or can't use the FSS (yes for some I think it is too complicated for them, heck they can't even set up a simple keybind for it
) then they should be able to use the OLD system, with the full understanding that when they make their choice they do so knowing that all aspects of the new (FSS+DSS) system is no longer available to them.All the cool kids know being hostile towards the old style is the right thing to do. They might know nothing about exploration and they definately wont think for themselfs but somebody on reddit told how the FSS is FDs greatest triumph and armed with that info they come to the forums to try and swamp any threads asking for the ADS back with their drivel
Would that be like someone going on and on and on during BETA telling everyone how bad the FSS is, then finally admitting they never bothered to download the BETA so everything they are describing is second hand and pure speculation?
You find it impossible that i could sum the thing up at first glance? Funny how the people who did use it appear to validate my opinion. If i was wrong i would be big enough to say so, its just that i wasnt. I solidified my opinions watching obsidian ants "how to" youtube.
Edit: i must admit, right from the start the attempts to shut down dicussion have been hilarious. You know? The desperate attempts to get threads closed, they practically forced me to continue to campaign.
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Yet you just accused Pro-FSS of doing just that - and I quote:
Rather hypocritical of you isn't it?
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I watched one Video on the FSS and played around with it for like 5 mins. I use it constantly. Works Great!
I never gloated a single time and it's entirely disingenuous for you to state that. I thought at first you were a reasonable well thought out individual making a unreasonable demand. But alas as the thread dragged on you seemed more unreasonable with each post and increasingly small minded. Especially with the broad assumptions and the veiled insults about whether fss users are real explorers or not.
How is it real exploring to have the entire map of a system handed to you after a magic honk? We should have to scan undiscovered planets with instruments not be magically given a picture of it and its precise location by a magical ads honk. You want a map because you want to tour systems and visit certain colored gas giants that's not exploring its sight seeing aka tourism. And yes I am done with this topic but reserve the right to respond again to any of your mischaracterizations of what I've said lol your not the boss here and can't instruct me not to.
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Disagree entirely with giving the players the option to chose the best parts of a feature. It would be akin to me demanding that whilst I like the new mining tools, I don't want to carry seismic charges so I want to be able to extract core deposits with my mining lasers. Or I like the new engineering but want to still be able to get a God Roll, so I demand FD keeps grades 1 to 4 the same, but I want the option to continue rolling Grade 5's until I get some mythical god roll.
Most of those demanding (yes I use that word a lot because that is what they are doing, demanding FD gives into their requests) want the ADS back but I suspect many haven't thought through the repercussions of their umm request. They want all the features of the old system, in conjunction with all the features of the new system, that is just being greedy and very short minded. If a player really doesn't either want to use the FSS or can't use the FSS (yes for some I think it is too complicated for them, heck they can't even set up a simple keybind for it
Well, some probably don't want to use the FSS, but that's fine, then they won't. No need to enforce it.
I'm not really sure what the 'best part' of the ADS system map reveal is considered to be other that what I suggested in my previous post, but it's no more 'better' at finding those oddball things than the FSS is 'better' at noting the presence of POI's. In other words, one does, the other doesn't.
To me thinking that having a map view of the contents of a system is more advantageous than having a graphical view is simply not justified. I don't believe for an instant that identifying the standard valuable bodies in the FSS is harder than using the system map. In fact, having used both, I think the FSS wins hands down. And I'm not saying anything that FD haven't said themselves. They said, repeatedly... "We believe the FSS will be intuitive, easy to learn and fast to use." And they are right.
So why shouldn't a player identify that there is something of interest to them (a glowing green gas giant for example) using a system map view and then use the FSS to locate and scan it? What's the big deal? The chances are they'll fly to it and map it too, hardly making their life easier or quicker.
I'm guessing that some of the people who suggest this feel that the FSS is somehow difficult to use, and therefore, the 'rewards' should only come if you have the skills to use it. I can't really say that I find it difficult to use, so personally I could care less if someone wants to explore differently. So I'll ask you (I've asked others before, but no one seems to answer this), why do you care how Burke (just to take an example) explores, so long as you are able to explore how you want to?
I used the Ignore feature once, on Enderby, years ago. The YOU ARE IGNORING THIS PERSONS POST format of the Ignore function was much harder to ignore, and over time I've come to quite enjoy Enderby's particular brand of cautious and well-phrased negativity.
I'm kind of curious to see how long Burke is gonna hang around the forums for a game he doesn't even play based on a single aspect he doesn't care to engage with. Like, he spun up a new avatar and everything. He's got some serious competition though. Look at Bounder, he's been bent out of shape about the basic flight model since 2014 but he's somehow still around all the time to tell us about it.
Also, EBL should be provided to all players. It should be moved from a bug to a fashion statement.
Yeah right, come back when you return to reality, maybe we can have a reasonable discussion then.