Engineers Best Laser Choice

[Time Streamer]

Hello dear CMDRS.

I guess it's time to give my corvette a little love. I have no questions at all about engineer blueprints, except with lasers. I haven't upgraded a single laser since engineers came out and I want to decide what is best for my vette. I'll talk regarding the HUGE hardpoints only. I hear that double plasmas are very effective (and oh boy I love plasma) but I think it's a waste to install fixed weapons, since you won't be able to enjoy the great angle of attack that gimbal weapons have, mounted on those top hardpoints. You will be forced to maneuver and despite being the most agile ship in its class, it ain't the best at all in terms of agility. I don't want kinetic weapons in there since the other hardpoints already have them. Basically I need an energy weapon to dish out shields from targets as fast as possible.

Correct me if I'm wrong but knowing that:

Pulses hit with "low" damage with "good" distributor draw
Burst hit with "medium" damage with "medium" distributor draw
Beams hit with "high" damage with "bad" distributor draw

and:

Pulses and Bursts have overcharged which increase damage falloff
Beams have no such thing since they already deal a good amount of damage vs other lasers (stock versions)

My doubts are:

1. Most people I see stick with pulses. I like bursts a lot. Disregarding greater distributor draw what will I lose at G5 if I choose bursts over pulses?
2. Is Rapid fire mods better than overcharged? Do they suffer from the same damage falloff over distance?
3. Are beams with long range better than any of the previous options? If not, why?
4. Are pulses or burst with rapid fire or focused mods (increased armor piercing) do any decent damage with Phasing Sequence? (if in any case Phasing Seq. do receive bonus damage from armor piercing. It would have some sense to be that way.)
5. Read in previous (really previous) patch notes something about greater projectile speeds for plasma. What mods offer these?

Thanks in advance. Cheers.

 

[Deefrize]

Beams + efficient G5.

 

[goemon]

"Pulses and Bursts have overcharged which increase damage falloff" - focussed increases damage fall-off, overcharged doesn't.

"1. Most people I see stick with pulses. I like bursts a lot."
i personally like bursts a lot, too. but not the huge one - the ROF of those is too low for, uhm, bursts of shots. also the corvette is very manouverable, hardpoint placement of the huge is excellent, you want sustained fire as you'll have a lot of time of target. which make pulses better for those hardpoints. but, as above, because the dpe of huge beams is better than the dpe of medium beams, efficient G5 beams are even better imho.

"2. Is Rapid fire mods better than overcharged? Do they suffer from the same damage falloff over distance?"
problem with rapid fire is jitter. they have the same damage fall-off as overcharged - what you are looking for is focussed, which are great in up to ~1100 m distance. problem here is the vet isn't fast. longrange removes any damage fall-off, but you can sustain 2 longrange huge beams, even with the PD of a corvette. tracking of huge gimbals is slow, so i don't think you#d win much from going longrange on the huge hardpoints anyway.

"3. Are beams with long range better than any of the previous options?"
if you have the PD to sustain them, and like to attack from longer range .... for exampel i run a single longrange beam on my DBS with a MC and cannons, and similar on my cobra. but i have 3 efficient beams on my FDL, as i couldn't run them longrange.

"4. Are pulses or burst with rapid fire or focused mods (increased armor piercing) do any decent damage with Phasing Sequence?"
pve phasing sequence isn't worth it. pvp - depends. the increased armour piercing does not matter for huge lasers, as their APV leads already to dealing 100% damage against nearby all targets.

"5. Read in previous (really previous) patch notes something about greater projectile speeds for plasma. What mods offer these?"
check inara.cz for PA blueprints. and https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ects-of-weapon-special-effects-complete-table for the special effects.

 

[ArchEmperor]

Unless you are a strict close-range fighter, all form of damage-falloff must be mitigated first and foremost. I put long-range on my beams because it gives me way more damage on target than any other mod can give due to otherwise massive falloff.

 

[Elyssaen]

Pulses and Bursts have overcharged which increase damage falloff
Beams have no such thing since they already deal a good amount of damage vs other lasers (stock versions)

Beams do have Overcharged now, I think. https://coriolis.edcd.io is a good source of information: play with a few loadout configurations there to get a feel for the numbers. It's much more up-to-date than inara.cz last I checked.

Overcharged increases distributor draw, it doesn't make damage falloff occur sooner. No modification does that, not even Short Range Blaster anymore.

1. Most people I see stick with pulses. I like bursts a lot. Disregarding greater distributor draw what will I lose at G5 if I choose bursts over pulses?

If you like the feel of burst, go for it over pulse. But make sure you've tried huge burst, as many people specifically don't like how huge burst lasers fire.

2. Is Rapid fire mods better than overcharged? Do they suffer from the same damage falloff over distance?

All modifications have the same damage fall-off over distance except for Long Range, which removes it entirely.

Rapid Fire will actually give you less Damage/Second and higher Heat/Second (on yourself), but for less Energy/Second. It's probably not worth it over Overcharged even before considering the jitter.

3. Are beams with long range better than any of the previous options? If not, why?

Beams are great, just watch your distributor and heat if you're not going with Efficient. If you're expecting to fight a lot of the time in 1.2-1.8 km, long range (or focused) gimballed beams are probably going to make you very happy. I don't like long ranged gimballed weapons for true 'sniping' (3-6 km). At that kind of range I tend to have more success with fixed, so long as it has excellent convergence. Gimbal jitter vs fixed mini-gimballing is the key at those ranges.

4. Are pulses or burst with rapid fire or focused mods (increased armor piercing) do any decent damage with Phasing Sequence? (if in any case Phasing Seq. do receive bonus damage from armor piercing. It would have some sense to be that way.)

Will defer to someone with more experience, but when I have used Phasing Sequence it hasn't seemed to 'phase' very much damage at all, and it comes at a cost to direct damage you do. For your purposes, it's probably not worth it.

Kind of doubt that piercing has any connection to Phasing Sequence but I don't actually know.

5. Read in previous (really previous) patch notes something about greater projectile speeds for plasma. What mods offer these?

Any that affect maximum range will also affect projectile speed, as the projectile's lifetime is fixed. So Focused and Long Range will improve it. For plasma, you probably want Focused of the two of them. You won't ever truly snipe with plasma, so you don't care about Long Range ignoring fall-off, and may as well get the better piercing. That said, if this is a Huge slot, and since I... think?... the hull hardness buff to the big three didn't go through, you probably don't actually need any better piercing than a 4A PAC gives you anyway, so it might come down to which blueprint you can more easily meet.

Note that Coriolis currently seems to say Long Range doesn't increase shot speed (and Short Range doesn't decrease it), but Focused does. I don't know why. Could be right, but I haven't heard anything about that.

 

[goemon]

All modifications have the same damage fall-off over distance except for Long Range, which removes it entirely.

... and focussed, which ups it.

 

[biohazard15]

1) Beams + Efficient G5 - excellent choice for medium ships with good PD, like FDL.
2) Bursts + Long Range - excellent choice for slow ships' secondary guns, like Conda and Vette

 

[Elyssaen]

... and focussed, which ups it.

You're right, of course. Got myself confused.

 

[Be4st]

I use G5 Efficient Bursts on my Vette. Damage isn't great, but I can shoot forever while still having 4 pips to shield

 

[Flash_Baggins]

The type of laser doesnt matter as long as theyre pink


PINK LAZOOOOOOORS

 

[Starender]

Bursts are clearly the bests, best Damage per energy and good DPS
the other lasers works alright, the beam is for kikoo CMDRs like me
and lastly the multi-cannon with incendiary ammo is also very nice against shields.

but right now any weapon can be viable, they are all great, even fragment cannons do what they are supposed to (shotguns...)


Now between all different upgrades it really depends on your playstyle:
- if you like to fight from close to medium range then you should consider overcharged/efficient/close range. if you love close range then seriously think about the fragment cannon.
- if you prefer mid to long range then take long range (i know i just shocked you)
- if you want to crush the hull quickly then any kind of physical projectile will be effective, especially with the corrosive experimental.
- if you want to destroy modules then you want explosive damage (missiles/cannon with high yield)

if you want to have it all, then the mighty plasma accelerator is for you, and as a bonus it does pure damage, yep it can't be resisted by any sort, and the big area of impact will wreck any module.

I think that we never had weapons as balanced as with the 2.3, not perfect but i find it good that every weapons has its job.

 

[StiTch]

Wow, this question's new.

1) Nothing but power overhead and moar heat. You just burn through your energy faster and deal it faster.
2) No. Rapid fire's dead.
3) Beam has a slightly stronger base range, which you could ascertain by looking at the weapon and viewing the falloff range, but they aren't viable with the long range mod so for true long range...it's long range pulses/bursts.
4) If you touch phasing I'll hunt you down. If you have to ask any questions about phasing you don't have a use for it.
5) Lazors have no projectile speed but any long-range mod increases the projectile speed of a projectile-based weapon.

 

[Elyssaen]

StiTch, why don't you see long range beams as viable?

 

[StiTch]

StiTch, why don't you see long range beams as viable?

Because the DpE is godawful.

Beams are fighting a losing (well...lost) battle for DpE as it is. Add long range and you are nullifying one of beam's inherent advantages-slightly longer natural range.

They just don't have the raw damage bonus to make it worth draining your cap in a couple of seconds, instead of bringing pulses or bursts and firing all day on less than 4 pips.

So if using beams, I would be sorely pressed to put much other than efficient on them. Long range bursts don't even have that considerably worse DpS.

 

[ArchEmperor]

Because the DpE is godawful.

Beams are fighting a losing (well...lost) battle for DpE as it is. Add long range and you are nullifying one of beam's inherent advantages-slightly longer natural range.

They just don't have the raw damage bonus to make it worth draining your cap in a couple of seconds, instead of bringing pulses or bursts and firing all day on less than 4 pips.

So if using beams, I would be sorely pressed to put much other than efficient on them. Long range bursts don't even have that considerably worse DpS.

Have you tried long range beams and compared? I find that efficient beams are nice in close range, but most fights end up at flux 1km 3 km and sometimes more ( if enemy tries to boost away to recover ). With my grade 2 long range I can still inflict serious damage way past 500 m, which makes it considerably better than just not shooting at all (because over 1km your dmg is almost nuffin and you waste your precious distributor power).

For fighters that have significant speed and maneuverability, I would go with efficient or overpowered, depending on what my pips would be at that range and position.

For me, long range beams are way more damage on target than any other builds in most cases with ships that face off with faster craft or equal speed.

 

[StiTch]

Have you tried long range beams and compared? I find that efficient beams are nice in close range, but most fights end up at flux 1km 3 km and sometimes more ( if enemy tries to boost away to recover ). With my grade 2 long range I can still inflict serious damage way past 500 m, which makes it considerably better than just not shooting at all (because over 1km your dmg is almost nuffin and you waste your precious distributor power).

For fighters that have significant speed and maneuverability, I would go with efficient or overpowered, depending on what my pips would be at that range and position.

For me, long range beams are way more damage on target than any other builds in most cases with ships that face off with faster craft or equal speed.

No, I thought I would comment on this through the experience of my ancestors...

If fighting at longer ranges the long range mod is perfectly fine. I have no disagreement with the mod. But at longer distances you have a relatively easy time keeping time on target.

So unless you can kill something within one cap drain, why choose beams with the lower DpE? Really that simple.

Beams are better at closer ranges, where you might not expect to be holding the trigger for 20 seconds before you let go, and want to maximise DpS within that time.

 

[Sonof Hibachi]

Hello dear CMDRS.

I guess it's time to give my corvette a little love. I have no questions at all about engineer blueprints, except with lasers. I haven't upgraded a single laser since engineers came out and I want to decide what is best for my vette. I'll talk regarding the HUGE hardpoints only. I hear that double plasmas are very effective (and oh boy I love plasma) but I think it's a waste to install fixed weapons, since you won't be able to enjoy the great angle of attack that gimbal weapons have, mounted on those top hardpoints. You will be forced to maneuver and despite being the most agile ship in its class, it ain't the best at all in terms of agility. I don't want kinetic weapons in there since the other hardpoints already have them. Basically I need an energy weapon to dish out shields from targets as fast as possible.

Correct me if I'm wrong but knowing that:

Pulses hit with "low" damage with "good" distributor draw
Burst hit with "medium" damage with "medium" distributor draw
Beams hit with "high" damage with "bad" distributor draw

and:

Pulses and Bursts have overcharged which increase damage falloff
Beams have no such thing since they already deal a good amount of damage vs other lasers (stock versions)

My doubts are:

1. Most people I see stick with pulses. I like bursts a lot. Disregarding greater distributor draw what will I lose at G5 if I choose bursts over pulses?
2. Is Rapid fire mods better than overcharged? Do they suffer from the same damage falloff over distance?
3. Are beams with long range better than any of the previous options? If not, why?
4. Are pulses or burst with rapid fire or focused mods (increased armor piercing) do any decent damage with Phasing Sequence? (if in any case Phasing Seq. do receive bonus damage from armor piercing. It would have some sense to be that way.)
5. Read in previous (really previous) patch notes something about greater projectile speeds for plasma. What mods offer these?

Thanks in advance. Cheers.

Purple ones, because Samuel L Jackson.

 

[Elyssaen]

Long range beams can surely be optimal under certain conditions, particularly:

1. You like to keep your range while dropping a target's shield, before closing in to take out their hull / sub-systems.
2. You split your firepower for those purposes. Or hell, you might even have mining lasers further diluting your firepower. Either way, beams represent only a smallish fraction of your firepower, so while you're firing them, your distributor really isn't that challenged.

In that case, it's about getting the most damage you can out of few hard points at long ranges – sod DPE. And long range beams then come out on top of everything in the game. Certainly for a large hardpoint (and this is an Orca/Clipper build particularly).

 

[StiTch]

Long range beams can surely be optimal under certain conditions, particularly:

1. You like to keep your range while dropping a target's shield, before closing in to take out their hull / sub-systems.
2. You split your firepower for those purposes. Or hell, you might even have mining lasers further diluting your firepower. Either way, beams represent only a smallish fraction of your firepower, so while you're firing them, your distributor really isn't that challenged.

In that case, it's about getting the most damage you can out of few hard points at long ranges – sod DPE. And long range beams then come out on top of everything in the game. Certainly for a large hardpoint (and this is an Orca/Clipper build particularly).

Less draw = more fluidity in pips. While tanking, 4/1/1 is better than 2/0/4, remembering at long ranges you either have a clear shot or are against a skill pvper.

But....how can you make a statement like "screw dpe"? Dpe is literally your damage ability. And beams would be more viable if the damage were stronger, but the resulting dps really isn't that potent. Worth it when you have the luxury of pretending your capacitor is infinite ofc.

Given op isn't considering mining lasers...I don't see how ignoring facts in favour of "but I like my method" works. Burst lazors simply have too strong an edge in sustainable firing over the beams unless, as I said, against a skilled opponent.

1km+ distance and you should be nearing 100% time on target in pve. I see no logic in deliberately choosing a weapon that will ultimately deal less damage for your cap drain, which is your limiting factor when ToT is near or at 100%. And if easily sustained on a vette because you are only firing one or two weapons....well...why would you do that?

 

[ArchEmperor]

No, I thought I would comment on this through the experience of my ancestors...

If fighting at longer ranges the long range mod is perfectly fine. I have no disagreement with the mod. But at longer distances you have a relatively easy time keeping time on target.

So unless you can kill something within one cap drain, why choose beams with the lower DpE? Really that simple.

Beams are better at closer ranges, where you might not expect to be holding the trigger for 20 seconds before you let go, and want to maximise DpS within that time.

Well, then our experiences diverge. I kill everything much faster with long range mod than any other mod. It is perhaps due to my tactic of keeping some distance ( or lack of speed to keep close enough ). Also, since I have distance, they deal less dmg to me because of the very same damage falloff I mitigate with long range.

dmg input < my dmg output.