Best weapons for Alpha Damage VS Shields?

[wire2k]

I fly a Viper for bounty hunting with 2x C1 Bursts and 2x C2 Multis but in my limited experience this doesnt seem to be great for PvP, combat cobras can carry more shield cells and so keep their shields up longer than i can.
The best idea i have is to have one weapon group lasers for killing npcs and something high one shot damage for PvP so would get the players shields low with lasers and then take the shields down with alpha damage before they can activate their shield cell banks (as the banks can only be used while shields are up and so would be useless if you get their shields down before they can use them)
Ive only really used lasers for shields on NPCs and you can take your time as they dont use shield cell banks so what would be good for high one shot damage to shields rails/missiles/PAC???

 

[Jarn]

You either fit for PvP, or PvE. There is no middle ground. In PvP you need a lot of alpha dmg (players will not be in your crosshairs as long as npc's), in PvE you need efficient, sustainable damage (more targets, more pew pewing). For a Viper I'd suggest 1x class 1 fixed beam 1x class 2 fixed beam, and 1x class 1 (g) multicannon 1x class 2 (g) multicannon. Set the firegroups/weapon placements so that you are firing your beams/mc's from their own sides.

And yes, Cobras tend to smoke Vipers in pvp because they have more shield cells. That's the nature of PvP right now. Whoever holds the most cells shall be victorious (or can force their opponent to burn theirs faster than they are burning yours).

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

How good are you at outmaneuvering other players? The C2 plasmas are going to be your best alpha against shields in a Viper, but landing the shots on a player is more than just tricky, you'll need to be close and to have them at a complete disadvantage to pull it off, and essentially in control of the fight the entire time. Not terribly hard to do, since a lot of people get too comfortable with those shield cell banks, but the plasma accelerators would be pretty much useless against anyone with a moderate amount of skill who flips the tables regularly in a fight, as you probably won't be able to control the distance of the engagement at the correct periods when you need to hit them to alpha their shields.

 

[Morbad]

I've been primarily using quad (2xC2 + 2xC1) fixed beam lasers since Beta 2 when SCBs showed up, but I recently replaced the C1 beams with burst lasers for better hull damage. I'm pretty damn impressed with their effectiveness against other players.

You either fit for PvP, or PvE. There is no middle ground.

My PvP loadouts work just fine for PvE. No real reason to differentiate.

And yes, Cobras tend to smoke Vipers in pvp because they have more shield cells.

This has not been my experience.

Since SCBs were introduced I've been in some 200 or so PvP encounters; one ship loss for me (via a station's guns), sixty to seventy ships lost by my foes, and a lot of running away on both sides. Only in four of these encounters where SCBs really a deciding factor. I've saved myself from likely destruction twice with SCBs (both times I was in a Viper, and both times I had SCBs left after I escaped, despite only packing a single A1 SBC unit with four charges), and have seen two of my foes survive (one Viper and one Asp) where they otherwise would probably have blown up.

in general, most Cobra CMDR's I fight have their shields fail, often repeatedly, regardless of SCBs because I front load laser damage, while Cobra have comparatively weak shields and are quite a bit bigger than the broadside of a barn.

 

[wire2k]

You either fit for PvP, or PvE. There is no middle ground. In PvP you need a lot of alpha dmg (players will not be in your crosshairs as long as npc's), in PvE you need efficient, sustainable damage (more targets, more pew pewing). For a Viper I'd suggest 1x class 1 fixed beam 1x class 2 fixed beam, and 1x class 1 (g) multicannon 1x class 2 (g) multicannon. Set the firegroups/weapon placements so that you are firing your beams/mc's from their own sides.

And yes, Cobras tend to smoke Vipers in pvp because they have more shield cells. That's the nature of PvP right now. Whoever holds the most cells shall be victorious (or can force their opponent to burn theirs faster than they are burning yours).

Yes cobras carry more shield cells so im trying to figure a high alpha to take the shields from low to down in one shot before they can activate SCBs to cancel out that advantage. As you said need high alpha for PvP but beams and multis is far from alpha damage.

How good are you at outmaneuvering other players? The C2 plasmas are going to be your best alpha against shields in a Viper, but landing the shots on a player is more than just tricky, you'll need to be close and to have them at a complete disadvantage to pull it off, and essentially in control of the fight the entire time. Not terribly hard to do, since a lot of people get too comfortable with those shield cell banks, but the plasma accelerators would be pretty much useless against anyone with a moderate amount of skill who flips the tables regularly in a fight, as you probably won't be able to control the distance of the engagement at the correct periods when you need to hit them to alpha their shields.

In the little PvP ive done so far ive done ok using some ACM tactics i found quite useful such as scissors and barrel rolls, PvP tends to become a turning fight resulting in you facing each other and most time this has happened ive manged to get on target a little before it becomes head to head and fire then boost past before he can get shots on me.
Ive noticed with fixed weapons vs npcs i would sacrifice turning tighter in favour of keeping weapons on the target but have found sometimes getting the tighter turn in is more important and allows me to spend more time on their tail.

 

[KushHaze]

You can fit for both pvp and pve there is no right set up although there are a few bad ones. Find a weapon system you like that fits your play style, learn your ship and you should be good to go. I am currently using a viper and I bounty hunt and pvp almost exclusively.

There are a few rules of thumb to follow when fitting a ship/mech/whatever.

1. Can my systems handle the power load?

2. Can I bring all my weapons to bear on target?

3. Know the meta, know the counters to the meta.

4. Is my alpha strike/burst damage potent, and does this fit my play style?

5. Am I a good enuf pilot to be effective with this set up, some weapons require a decent amount of gunnery.

6. Do these systems work well together or do they conflict. Weapon systems should always compliment the other in some way for a well rounded set up.

My set up is 2 small fixed beam lasers, two Class 2 gimbaled multi-cannons, chaff, shield cell bank, KWS, and mil grade armor. I use all A grade mods except for life support and sensors which I take the lighter versions of. Beam lasers allow me to strip shields quickly, they also have excellent range and the best armor penetration of all the lasers. Draw back is of course they are power hungry and you need to have good gunnery skills to make the most of them.

Gimbaled multi-cannons allow me to put both my beams and cannons on target all at once, these weapon systems complement each other in that the cannons are not power hungry, the beams help compensate for the short range of the cannons, and if someone is packing chaff I can still kill them with just the beams if I need to, the two systems when used together can chew through just about anything in short order.

If you want alpha then nothing beats missiles, they will wreak anything you manage to hit with them, of course they have draw backs as well.

 

[wire2k]

Beam lasers allow me to strip shields quickly, they also have excellent range and the best armor penetration of all the lasers. Draw back is of course they are power hungry and you need to have good gunnery skills to make the most of them.

Gimbaled multi-cannons allow me to put both my beams and cannons on target all at once, these weapon systems complement each other in that the cannons are not power hungry, the beams help compensate for the short range of the cannons, and if someone is packing chaff I can still kill them with just the beams if I need to, the two systems when used together can chew through just about anything in short order.

If you want alpha then nothing beats missiles, they will wreak anything you manage to hit with them, of course they have draw backs as well.

With lasers i was sure it was other way round with beams being best at shields but pulses and burst being better vs armour?!?
But thank you for finally answering my original question, missiles for alpha damage.
Makes sense, my 4x c1 dumbfire missile boat viper is the best fit ive found for taking out elite condas, while id probably go 2x lasers 2x missiles for pvp im not sure how i would do with hitting smaller targets like vipers/cobras with the missiles, maybe use heat seekers and pray they not using heatsinks.

 

[Morbad]

With lasers i was sure it was other way round with beams being best at shields but pulses and burst being better vs armour?!?

It is.

im not sure how i would do with hitting smaller targets like vipers/cobras with the missiles, maybe use heat seekers and pray they not using heatsinks.

Missiles are either really good, or really bad. If the person you are fighting has no missile countermeasures, homing missiles are great. However, even one PDT can negate two launchers, and two PDTs with some maneuvering to point them in the optimal direction can make you essentially immune to them.

Dumbfires are bad for PvP, at least against aware and maneuvering targets. Great if you can blind side someone though.

This video demonstrates how pointless missiles are against someone running PDTs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dErcQ7NaZH8

I've got another one somewhere, featuring an Asp with six homing missile racks, who fires seventy-two at me, before running away, and never scores a hit. I'll see if I can find it later.

 

[Jarn]

As you said need high alpha for PvP but beams and multis is far from alpha damage.

Beams are the alpha shield dmg you're going to use in PvP. Plasmas, cannons, railguns, dumbfire missiles. Not gonna work (unless you catch them by surprise, ie. sucker punch), go ahead and try. You know what's so good about beams (and lasers in general)? They're hitscan. Guaranteed damage, no matter if your opponent toggles FA and does crazy boost maneuvers.

 

[CMDR Saunders]

Beams are the shield strippers. They are a must. Railguns are alright... if you can aim and hit of course.

I personally love dumbfire missiles... but they are for bigger ships only and must be used wisely.