Beta Closing Statement

If people want to be invulnerable in a HAZ RES then that's their choice. If they want to fly into a HAZ REZ with no shield boosters and E-grade shielding and basic armor, then that is their choice as well. Right now the game can be as easy or as difficult as people want it to be. Taking people's choices away from them never goes well.

The game offers a choice to pick lower classes of RES, but it doesn't offer a choice for challenging PvE content for medium/big ships.

I completely agree - not offering choices doesn't go well.
 
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The game offers a choice to pick lower classes of RES, but it doesn't offer a choice for challenging PvE content for medium/big ships.

I completely agree - not offering choices doesn't go well.

Try high-intensity CZs. That's the only time my Anaconda has ever lost its shields (and half its armor on the way out).
 
Thanks for the hint. I'll have to try them after 23 months of looking for any challenge flying one. How did I miss that.

/sarcasm

23 months. There's your problem. You expect npcs to be able to compete with a real person with nearly two years of experience under their belt? They're not that smart. You can't expect this game to keep up with the most skilled players, as that would leave out the majority of people. It's unrealistic to expect a continuous challenge, eventually you just get too skilled to find difficulty in anything. Maybe it's time for you to put this game down and move on, if it bores you so much.
 
Maybe it's time for you to put this game down and move on, if it bores you so much.

"If you don't like it, quit" is the poorest possible attitude you can carry in a gaming community.

"If I don't like it, I'll quit" is the second worst, in my view, but can be justifiable depending on the game...complete overreaction in this context. (That's for all of you naysaying the diminishing returns on shield boosters....)
 
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"If you don't like it, quit" is the poorest possible attitude you can carry in a gaming community.

"If I don't like it, I'll quit" is the second worst, in my view, but can be justifiable depending on the game...complete overreaction in this context. (That's for all of you naysaying the diminishing returns on shield boosters....)

Whatever you say, buddy.

Doesn't matter to me in the end, I got my way. As long as things stay like this for a few months, I'm happy. By then, I'll have had my fill of combat and I can get to what I started playing this game for: exploration.
 
If people want to be invulnerable in a HAZ RES then that's their choice.

Actually, I'd say it's the devs / game designers who make the decision whether players can be invulnerable in the game...

Right now, they're saying it's a valid choice for players, but I wouldn't count on it staying that way forever.
 
Glad you reversed the hull changes, as the massive hardness boost to larger ships would have made small ships with their small penetration quite useless.

A little bummed that the shield changes didn't make it though. I think you were on the right track there since shields are little too good at the moment.

Likewise with the Gimbals. It would have been nice if this change made it, since Gimbals are a little too good imo.
 
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As Spock once said, "Insufficient facts always invite danger" and "In critical moments men sometimes see exactly what they wish to see."

The correlation of PvE players being against booster stacking penalties and PvP players favouring them is completely unfounded.

As a PvE only player, I remember lenghty discussions full of wing-PvPers advocating for the introduction of absurdly overpowered shields because they complained about not being able to tank two full player wings focusing fire on them.

As a result, we got shields rendering PvE a semi-AFK activity in anything upwards from a Courier.

However you can't really hold PvPers responsible for both - shield buffs and nerfs.

In the end the confounding factor is people wanting god mode (i.e. some PvE players making billions in bounties whilst watching TV or gankers engaging Asps in fully engineered FdL wings) vs. those looking for challenging gameplay.

i hear your posts in Patrick Stewart's voice. :)

- - - Updated - - -

That's about as logical as suggesting to self destruct if you want to face a threat.

snip

lol @ Mood - good one, I'd add automated combat logging vs NPCs to the list :D.

Almost made the sig... :)

Auto self-destruct is on my list of engineer blueprint requests. Maybe Ram Tah or Marco Quent... :)
 
23 months. There's your problem. You expect npcs to be able to compete with a real person with nearly two years of experience under their belt? They're not that smart. You can't expect this game to keep up with the most skilled players, as that would leave out the majority of people. It's unrealistic to expect a continuous challenge, eventually you just get too skilled to find difficulty in anything. Maybe it's time for you to put this game down and move on, if it bores you so much.

This happens to all combat games. The most skilled drive off the less skilled, if the game is PvP. Skilled players run out of things to do, in a PvE environment.

Unfortunately, you can't make a rule like the FAA, and say if you are x% ranked, you must leave (mandatory retirement for airline pilots at 60).

You can't tell him to stop playing, if he wants a more challenging game. You *can* say that the game is getting too difficult for us scrub peasants. I include myself in that category. :)
 
lol @ Mood - good one, I'd add automated combat logging vs NPCs to the list :D.

Indeed.

@Mood if you are not trolling the only way to make you happy would be for FD to implement a larger range of CZ/RES type areas with vastly different levels of challenge. No doubt certain segments of the community would still complain that they could not enter certain areas without dieing...

I single handedly took on BOTH sides of a high CZ in my Corvette in 2.2.03. I could have stayed 30-40 minutes before I ran out of SCB, I only had 2 7A SCB I could have loaded a bucket load more of them.

My Corvette is mostly g5 but only a single roll at each mod. I consider myself better than average pilot but nothing special - no skills other than 4 pips to sys were required anyway...
 
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Doesn't matter to me in the end, I got my way. As long as things stay like this for a few months, I'm happy. By then, I'll have had my fill of combat and I can get to what I started playing this game for: exploration.

This "screw you, got mine" attitude encapsulates well the people that advocate for the shield boosters to stay as they are. The selfishness of it is just astounding.
 
Dear Sandro,

I am grateful for this statement. I understand why you felt the changes to the 'Big 3' needed more work.

However, concerning the principal broken part of PvP at present - the absurd TTK on a fully Engineered FdL, especially 1v1 - I am dismayed that 2.2.03 has simply made matters worse.

In summary:

- Overcharged nerfed

- Rapid fire nerfed

- Phasing nerfed

- Feedback cascade nerfed

- Shield regen BUFFED

- Heavy duty booster stacking left as is

In short, damage down, hp up ... so TTK up.

This seems completely counter-productive and runs directly contrary to your own recent statement that it was undesirable for TTK on "unbreakable" FdL's to be so high 1v1 due to Engineers boosting defences by "an order of magnitude" more than damage.

I repeat that the patch has just made the very evil you identified worse.

It is unfortunate and ironic that after high hopes of advancement we have actually just taken a step back.

I really hope therefore that this deteriorating situation can be remedied as a matter of urgency.

Thanks indeed,

Truesilver
 
- Overcharged nerfed

- Rapid fire nerfed

- Phasing nerfed

- Feedback cascade nerfed

- Shield regen BUFFED

- Heavy duty booster stacking left as is

As a PvE player, I am happy about all of the buffs and nerfs you listed. I can't really tell whether the PvP meta has become worse, but for PvE this was a huge boon:

* Overcharged and Rapid Fire better differentiated.
* Other weapons and weapon mods became more desirable and roughly on par with overcharged and rapid fire.
* Grade 5 mods on all weapon types (or at least I hope/assume this is finally the case), e.g. beam lasers, too.
* Less downtime between fights in PvE.

I do agree with you, however, that the shield booster capacity stacking should have been nerfed in precisely the way it was planned, just with a bit higher soft cap (100% instead of 80%). For PvE this would only cut of the most extreme upper end where people Anaconda, Cutter or Corvette get so tough that nothing in PvE posed any threat at all any more, while more sustain-oriented PvE builds (shield resistance + bi-weaves; wouldn't last long in PvP but optimized downtime in PvE) are hardly affected.
 
I do agree with you, however, that the shield booster capacity stacking should have been nerfed in precisely the way it was planned, just with a bit higher soft cap (100% instead of 80%). For PvE this would only cut of the most extreme upper end where people Anaconda, Cutter or Corvette get so tough that nothing in PvE posed any threat at all any more, while more sustain-oriented PvE builds (shield resistance + bi-weaves; wouldn't last long in PvP but optimized downtime in PvE) are hardly affected.

I like the idea behind the shield booster limitation but as long as we have high rebuy costs and low combat earnings I am very happy that npcs are not a real threat for my conda in most cases.
I would like to have harder fights with my conda but it has to be worth the risk.

Lot of things to do for the devs. And if I look at the mission board situation I am not sure if they can deliver....
 

Ripbudd

Banned
This could easily be made less severe by adding lightweight sensor mods. *wink wink*

Oh mah gawd yes! Let's put those big fat sensors on a much needed diet. So much wait and so little detection i mean COME ON!

We need proper engineers that can strip extra pilot seats, fit roll cages, add some rebars and make general this is just a piece of flying steel that will make you regret jumping into this sector, while looking like a medieval toilet form inside.

But yeah i love that you don't need to haul those stupid commodities.
 
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Still don't understand why roll back on diminishing return on shield booster stacking, hah...

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Dear Sandro,

I am grateful for this statement. I understand why you felt the changes to the 'Big 3' needed more work.

However, concerning the principal broken part of PvP at present - the absurd TTK on a fully Engineered FdL, especially 1v1 - I am dismayed that 2.2.03 has simply made matters worse.

In summary:

- Overcharged nerfed

- Rapid fire nerfed

- Phasing nerfed

- Feedback cascade nerfed

- Shield regen BUFFED

- Heavy duty booster stacking left as is

In short, damage down, hp up ... so TTK up.

This seems completely counter-productive and runs directly contrary to your own recent statement that it was undesirable for TTK on "unbreakable" FdL's to be so high 1v1 due to Engineers boosting defences by "an order of magnitude" more than damage.

I repeat that the patch has just made the very evil you identified worse.

It is unfortunate and ironic that after high hopes of advancement we have actually just taken a step back.

I really hope therefore that this deteriorating situation can be remedied as a matter of urgency.

Thanks indeed,

Truesilver

Agreed.
 
Dear Sandro,

I am grateful for this statement. I understand why you felt the changes to the 'Big 3' needed more work.

However, concerning the principal broken part of PvP at present - the absurd TTK on a fully Engineered FdL, especially 1v1 - I am dismayed that 2.2.03 has simply made matters worse.

In summary:

- Overcharged nerfed

- Rapid fire nerfed

- Phasing nerfed

- Feedback cascade nerfed

- Shield regen BUFFED

- Heavy duty booster stacking left as is

In short, damage down, hp up ... so TTK up.

This seems completely counter-productive and runs directly contrary to your own recent statement that it was undesirable for TTK on "unbreakable" FdL's to be so high 1v1 due to Engineers boosting defences by "an order of magnitude" more than damage.

I repeat that the patch has just made the very evil you identified worse.

It is unfortunate and ironic that after high hopes of advancement we have actually just taken a step back.

I really hope therefore that this deteriorating situation can be remedied as a matter of urgency.

Thanks indeed,

Truesilver
.
I come out of the PvE corner (long time Möbius resident here with very limited PvP experience, i only once in a while go and usually loose a duel) and see it the very same way.
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All the changes to the weapon blueprints i appreciate a lot. Thanks to them now overcharged is not the one and only to use, but there's a number of them worth using, depending on setup, piloting style, taste and preference. This is awesome and was exactly what the game needed in terms of weapon blueprints. (Mind you, i still see things to do, but we went a huge step ahead with this patch for this aspect. )
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Unfortunately for shield boosters, we had the same chance of variety at hand, but it was stopped at the very last moment. I mean, face it: whoever in the current system doesn't fill most of his utility slots with engineered shield boosters is simply "doing it wrong". They currently are the undisputed king of the utility slot and nothing but perhaps one or two heat sink launchers can ever hope to take a slot there.
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Things like chaff, point defense or ECM at the current state could just as well be deleted from the game and nobody of the older players would even notice it. In the beta, with diminishing returns for shield boosters in place, people suddenly used the other defensive options. Mind you, we also found some potential flaws and problems on them, but those existed since a longg time, just nobody ever bothered for such vastly inferior garbage, so they were not noticed.
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And also one sidenote for all those, who fight for shield booster stacking to protect newer players: Cut it. It's ridiculous. You want to keep your god-ships and nothing else. A beginner doesn't start in a ship with six or eight utility slots. A beginner doesn't start with access to engineers and materials for them. The beginner still has to work with his non-engineered sidewinder and whatever he buys next, with small shields and few or no shield boosters. Nothing good comes out of the shield booster meta for the beginner, while the meta at the same time puts pressure on FD to implement more challenging content. It's not so hard to see what happens to the beginner in a non-engineered stepping-stone ship (because currently all ships with fewer than six utility slots are stepping-stone ships) in case content arrives which is balanced around the current shield meta.
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So actually not only for the sake of variety in the game, for more options for the players and more diverse setups, but also for the benefit of the new player, the current shieldbooster meta has to be broken. Anybody who can look out of the limits the egocentric "i grinded for that, so i now can be bored in a god-ship" viewpoint should be able to see the problems and understand that fixes are required.
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Yes, I did test these changes. And as a PVE-only player, I never liked these (why would I?). Sorry, but I do not want to give up my engineered shields in favor of very vocal PVP minority. At least not wothout proper compensation.

As a PvE player, I like both these changes (diminishing shield booster returns and extra hull hardness for large ships) a lot.

Why?

Because I don't want there to be ships in the game capable of giving a fully shield-engineered corvette or cutter a challenge which would rip a non-fully engineered one to shreds in too short a time. Because I want both shields and hull to be playable, so that therecan be variety in the gameplay, rather than just 'build the biggest shield available'.

We can reasonably differ on these points. But please don't assume that all PvE players will want what you want.

[Edit - Sylow above says it better than I did - rep]
 
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