Beta flight model changes

777Driver · Nov 14, 2018

Managed to grab 30mins to test the new beta

For some bizarre reason (considering this is a game about flying ships) nobody seems to ever talk about the flight model changes we get in the various updates. Anyway putting aside the minor flight model changes, some changes to the flight assist off computer logic has been made with this update. Hal 9000 now causes the ship to decelerate with gear/scoop deployed. Fortunately we can still maintain 4 PIP ENG Speed with 0 PIPS in ENG with gear retracted.

Curious as to why they change the flight computer logic, it is at least the 3rd (maybe 4th) time I've seen definite changes.

Frenotx · Nov 14, 2018

I honestly wonder if this change was even intentional.

znôrt · Nov 14, 2018

intended or not, sounds awesome. what's wrong with an extra handbrake? can come in handy

specially for fa-off only pilots. i'm not.

bladebss · Nov 14, 2018

It is the oposite of a hand brake as it cuts acceleration as well as top speed so you drift like a space cow

To be honest i have had it up to here *raises hand above head* with all the unessasery little changes in this beta its driving me insaine they arnt improvment they are just anoying changes for chages sake. From the chat menue to the docking and reboot cool down its all to much for me to bare right now

Frenotx · Nov 14, 2018

znôrt said:
intended or not, sounds awesome. what's wrong with an extra handbrake? can come in handy

specially for fa-off only pilots. i'm not.

I'm assuming that, like in FA-on, it doesn't enhance your ship's acceleration abilities at all- just applies them.

Andovar · Nov 14, 2018

considering the amount of time i spend in FA-off, i never would have noticed.

But I'm curious from the fa-off 'regulars'. Why would this be a bad thing? I'm wondering why you'd want to drift at full speed with gear/scoop down?

777Driver · Nov 14, 2018

bladebss said:
It is the oposite of a hand brake as it cuts acceleration as well as top speed so you drift like a space cow

Yeah, it's strange that they keep making changes like this. The whole reason I fly FA-OFF is to avoid the flight computer trying to tell what it thinks is best for me. Don't need hand holding.

@Andovar - It is more about unnecessary changes, this is not the first time it has happened. Not sure if the devs feel they are being helpful, or just changing for the sake of changing.

Anyway, I would often high speed to the pad FA-OFF gear down whilst smuggling, roll and pitch authority is reduced for smother handling with the gear down, but I retained Max 4 PIP engine velocity until the last moment.

Andovar · Nov 14, 2018

777Driver said:
Anyway, I would often high speed to the pad FA-OFF gear down whilst smuggling, roll and pitch authority is reduced for smother handling with the gear down, but I retained Max 4 PIP engine velocity until the last moment.

Can you please make and post a video on this, because it sounds seriously impressive.

znôrt · Nov 14, 2018

i'm confused.

if deploying gear causes ship to decelerate, isn't that braking? does this result in some additional loss of thruster control? if so i can see it might affect manual scooping and landing. still seems that in any other scenario, deploying gear just is an extra option to decelerate quicker. i must be missing something here.

znôrt · Nov 14, 2018

777Driver said:
roll and pitch authority is reduced for smother handling with the gear down

unterstood. i didn't know this. so the landing gear was a servo controller, now it's a handbrake, right?

Frenotx · Nov 14, 2018

znôrt said:
i'm confused.

if deploying gear causes ship to decelerate, isn't that braking? does this result in some additional loss of thruster control? if so i can see it might affect manual scooping and landing. still seems that in any other scenario, deploying gear just is an extra option to decelerate quicker. i must be missing something here.

All "braking" is in space is firing thrusters to accelerate in the other direction. It is no quicker than throwing your ship in reverse.

DNA-Decay · Nov 14, 2018

znôrt said:
i'm confused.
Seems that in any other scenario, deploying gear just is an extra option to decelerate quicker. i must be missing something here.

For FA-On Pilots (hi) the braking effect of lowering the landing gear is useful. And has been in the game for a long time.

But it’s unneeded for FA-Off Pilots who want predictability about their “flow”.
You’re set up to coast in relying on muscle memory, and the braking will make you fall short or have to rework what you are doing on late final.

I think the “automation experts” are going to love the feature.
I haven’t got autopilot working yet, but I can definitely see a use case to make a faster station exit.

I’m very interested to know exactly who proposed this and who implemented it.

777Driver · Nov 14, 2018

picommander said:
I can only speculate, as even when I was still flying with FA-On I never used these silly 'break' methods which is utter nonsense in a vacuum. .

It is not really nonsense, even in a vacuum, it is just the flight computers commanding the thrusters to decelerate the ship, (you can see the thrusters firing from the bridge on certain ships) With the changes those thrusters now fire when gear down is selected even when FA-OFF.

Never really had an issue with the automation, you see it in reality with things like FADECS (Full authority digital engine control) Just dowt understand why more of this automation is creeping into FA-OFF, as far as I am aware nobody is asking for these changes.

777Driver · Nov 14, 2018

DNA-Decay said:
But it’s unneeded for FA-Off Pilots who want predictability about their “flow”.

Exactly mate, I did a test run into a port and thought what the heck is the ship doing? Thought my controller had malfunctioned.

Kaybe · Nov 14, 2018

Didn't opening the hatch or lowering the gear *always* decelerate the ship?

Or are you saying that the deceleration is a lot faster now?

rOmiLaYu · Nov 14, 2018

Kaybe said:
Didn't opening the hatch or lowering the gear *always* decelerate the ship?

Or are you saying that the deceleration is a lot faster now?

For those of us mere mortals who fly FA-On, yes, it has. But he's saying that when the Flight Assist is turned off, lowering the gear and cargo hatch (in the past) did not cause the ship to decelerate...which is wild to me. Apparently now, it does.

As 99.9% FA-On pilot, I would have never noticed this.

I'd file a big report....something tells me it's unintended and needs attention. If the flight assist module is switched off, the only thing that should affect the throttle should be the pilot.

777Driver · Nov 14, 2018

Kaybe said:
Didn't opening the hatch or lowering the gear *always* decelerate the ship?

Or are you saying that the deceleration is a lot faster now?

Not with FA-OFF. There is/was a bunch of stuff you can do because the thrusters are essentially in a manual state FA-OFF, been like that since early Beta/Gamma.

rOmiLaYu · Nov 14, 2018

picommander said:
Then I must have got this wrong from reading other pilot's reports. I always thought the 'break' effect would be unnaturally stronger than just normal decelerating, which is the crucial part. Who's version is correct now?

Natural deceleration is ceasing forward thrust (which in a vacuum would never happen but does because game, I know). Firing reverse thrusters while in forward momentum would be stronger.

777Driver · Nov 14, 2018

picommander said:
I seem to recall that this method also works with full standard thrust which suggests that the backward thrusters are not as strong than the forward ones. Very confusing though to confirm with an effect involved that is most likely based on a bug...

Reverse thrust (FA-OFF) is the same as forward. In FA-ON reverse thrust is limited. In fact I should test to see if this has also changed in the new beta.

The only weird thruster logic I see in the game is with FA-ON (Thruster animation). At the max velocity limit the thrusters should cut out, no engine trails etc, or lit up exhaust (This works correctly with FA-OFF)

You should play around with thrusters in the live build FA-OFF, then note how it changes when you do the same with FA-ON, the animations have always been broken FA-ON, just the way it is for some reason.

A basic exmaple - fa-off I apply max thrust in a straight line, once the computed limit is reached the thrusters shut down, with FA-ON the thrusters are still burning at full power, yet the ship is obviously not accelerating, defying all logic.

DaveB · Nov 14, 2018

777Driver said:
A basic exmaple - fa-off I apply max thrust in a straight line, once the computed limit is reached the thrusters shut down, with FA-ON the thrusters are still burning at full power, yet the ship is obviously not accelerating, defying all logic.

I need to become a better FA-off pilot just for the better visuals! That's always bugged me and I never noticed it didn't happen in FA-off because I so rarely leave FA off for longer than I need to for a specific maneuver..