Beyond 2 or 'Deckard?

[Cmdr Excypher]

I’ve ordered myself a BSB2 with eye tracking and I’m curious how it works with elite.

I’ve played in my index and OG vive and I was always disappointed I couldn’t target ships or open panels by looking at them with eyes rather than pointing my head at them.

Does anybody know if eye tracking in VR works like how I hope it will?

 

[tact8t88]

I’ve ordered myself a BSB2 with eye tracking and I’m curious how it works with elite.

I’ve played in my index and OG vive and I was always disappointed I couldn’t target ships or open panels by looking at them with eyes rather than pointing my head at them.

Does anybody know if eye tracking in VR works like how I hope it will?

Eye tracking is used (mainly) for DFR, which is dynamic foveated rendering. It's something that allows the game to automatically adjust resolution to the area where you're currently looking at with your eyes.
So things out of your 'gaze' are rendered at a much lower resolution while the center of it remains crisp, saving some GPU horsepower.

I am not sure if there's anything like what you describe, but then again, i have never looked into that functionality. It seems what you're looking for is something that'll turn your eyes into actual pointers in game.
In terms of BSB2's eye tracking capabilities... It's to be determined.

 

[Cmdr Excypher]

Eye tracking is used (mainly) for DFR, which is dynamic foveated rendering. It's something that allows the game to automatically adjust resolution to the area where you're currently looking at with your eyes.
So things out of your 'gaze' are rendered at a much lower resolution while the center of it remains crisp, saving some GPU horsepower.

I am not sure if there's anything like what you describe, but then again, i have never looked into that functionality. It seems what you're looking for is something that'll turn your eyes into actual pointers in game.
In terms of BSB2's eye tracking capabilities... It's to be determined.

I’m aware that foveted rendering is the normal implementation, Bsb is a reasonable resolution and I have top end hardware, otherwise I’d consider the Meganex 8k

It’s more whether elite can support the eye tracks as a target for contextual menus, right now it takes your head point target into account (for pop up menus and targeting ships)

But I’ve heard of people using Tobi eye tracking to effectively do the same thing, so I’m curious if that’s how it works in a VR sense, because if it does that would be epic!

 

[AvonNZ]

This seems to be good news for tariff related price increases?

Bigscreen Says Tariffs Will Not Increase Price of Beyond 2 PC VR Headset

Wide sweeping tariffs levied by US President Donald Trump have led to uncertainty in just how the XR hardware industry will react. Now, Bigscreen says its recently announced Beyond 2 PC VR headset will not see a price increase as a result. Bigscreen released a statement on X wherein the company...

www.roadtovr.com

 

[El Guido]

About the Metaflex 3.
I'm ashamed to say that I've spent a small fortune to achieve great VR performance.
I had an HP REGEN 2, Intel i9 900 CPU, Nvidia RTX 3080, 32GB of RAM and Windows 10.
Now the HP REGEN 2 does not come with bespoke software. It uses Windows Mixed Reality.
It totally amazed me how well WMR meshed with Steam VR, the game VR settings and Voice Attack.
I was sure that one of these applications would throw a spanner in the works, but no. After spending a lot of time adjusting settings, the VR experience was very immersive and easy to initiate.
Then the bad news rolls in. MS will discontinue all support for Win 10 in October of this year.
And Windows 11 after 23H2 does not support WMR.
HP have given no indication that they will publish a work around app.
So whichever hardware you use, WMR is no longer available after October, if you still want update support to your OS.
So I totally blew my IT budget for this year on a rig with an RTX 5080 and a Metaflex 3.
This VR headset takes a lot of getting used to. The old Oculus software is buggy and unreliable.
To get the maximum performance you need to use and properly configure the Oculus debug tool, the settings of which change every time you start the application again.
And whereas WMR used to change the sound to and from the VR headset to the standard mic and headset automatically, the Oculus software will not do that. You have to go into windows 11 sound settings and do it yourself.
Having said that, the performance is very very clear and sharp. No stuttering at all and the colours all very rich.
The debug tool does provide a HUD performance monitor.
I think I have a bit of tweaking yet, but the main issue is that the HUD monitor reveals is the massive difference in VR performance requirements in, or near a station, or near a planet surface as opposed to deep space.
In deep space the headroom is shown to be about 45% at 90 FPS. But in a station it can barely maintain any headroom at all.
However, the new found pin sharp clarity of the meta flex 3 allows me to see things such as the stitching in the leather fabric of the cockpit seats and every different lighting effects and surface texture.
This new clarity and image definition has also made me notice that Lakon, Core Dynamics, and Zorgon Peterson have maybe upped their standards of interiors to De Luxe level in their newer ships.
My entry level Cobra Mk 5 has a most impressive level of interior elegance compared to my long beloved Viper MkIII, which has an interior like a badly abused rental van.
It only needs a few sandwich wrappers and coke cans rolling about the floor to complete the effect.

 

[aXeL]

About the Metaflex 3.
I'm ashamed to say that I've spent a small fortune to achieve great VR performance.
I had an HP REGEN 2, Intel i9 900 CPU, Nvidia RTX 3080, 32GB of RAM and Windows 10.
Now the HP REGEN 2 does not come with bespoke software. It uses Windows Mixed Reality.
It totally amazed me how well WMR meshed with Steam VR, the game VR settings and Voice Attack.
I was sure that one of these applications would throw a spanner in the works, but no. After spending a lot of time adjusting settings, the VR experience was very immersive and easy to initiate.
Then the bad news rolls in. MS will discontinue all support for Win 10 in October of this year.
And Windows 11 after 23H2 does not support WMR.
HP have given no indication that they will publish a work around app.
So whichever hardware you use, WMR is no longer available after October, if you still want update support to your OS.
So I totally blew my IT budget for this year on a rig with an RTX 5080 and a Metaflex 3.
This VR headset takes a lot of getting used to. The old Oculus software is buggy and unreliable.
To get the maximum performance you need to use and properly configure the Oculus debug tool, the settings of which change every time you start the application again.
And whereas WMR used to change the sound to and from the VR headset to the standard mic and headset automatically, the Oculus software will not do that. You have to go into windows 11 sound settings and do it yourself.
Having said that, the performance is very very clear and sharp. No stuttering at all and the colours all very rich.
The debug tool does provide a HUD performance monitor.
I think I have a bit of tweaking yet, but the main issue is that the HUD monitor reveals is the massive difference in VR performance requirements in, or near a station, or near a planet surface as opposed to deep space.
In deep space the headroom is shown to be about 45% at 90 FPS. But in a station it can barely maintain any headroom at all.
However, the new found pin sharp clarity of the meta flex 3 allows me to see things such as the stitching in the leather fabric of the cockpit seats and every different lighting effects and surface texture.
This new clarity and image definition has also made me notice that Lakon, Core Dynamics, and Zorgon Peterson have maybe upped their standards of interiors to De Luxe level in their newer ships.
My entry level Cobra Mk 5 has a most impressive level of interior elegance compared to my long beloved Viper MkIII, which has an interior like a badly abused rental van.
It only needs a few sandwich wrappers and coke cans rolling about the floor to complete the effect.

All you need to do with W11 is set the TargetReleaseVersion to 1 and TargetReleaseVersionInfo to "23H2" in the registry. Can't recall the exact location but Google will tell you. You'll still get updates but WMR will not be removed.

Yesterday I switched my gamer from W10 to a fresh W11 build and did exactly this. It's all patched and WMR works as normal.

 

[dr00p]

I'm fresher than fresh. Just now got into VR by buying a heavily discounted Vive Pro 2. I'm enthusiastic about it to say the least. VR in general. And also about the Vive Pro 2 despite some initial getting used to. In between flying around with my new headset, I've been reading around. And to be honest, the Bigscreen 2 tickles me most at the moment. Call me silly but I'm so happy bout this Vive that I almost want a second one, just to be able to share. But seeing all this new tech gets me wild too. I do agree with what CMDR tact8t88 wrote: The Crystal looks awesome, but I rather buy a headset that utilizes my existing hardware than need to wait for the next expensive gpu. For the most I'm dreaming here too, with my wishes.. (for a Bigscreen2 etc.)

I do wish Elite, Frontier Developments, picks up Elite in VR. And I kind of wonder in how true this statement is: But it seems that today the VR still isn't a priority for Elite Odyssey. If I'm not wrong. And though my 2080ti is obsolete as can be; it's not a daft card. I am kind off surprised in how heavy VR turns out to be.

But I noticed that on the website of Bigscreen there are some "recommended games to try in VR". Guess which game isn't named. ..

Dear Frontier, In my other topic I wrote I bought my headset on a whim. Didn't read up to much beforehand. All true. But what is also true is when I did read something VR wise about the last ten years or so, I always thought and wanted to do so in Elite. (!!)

 

[El Guido]

All you need to do with W11 is set the TargetReleaseVersion to 1 and TargetReleaseVersionInfo to "23H2" in the registry. Can't recall the exact location but Google will tell you. You'll still get updates but WMR will not be removed.

Yesterday I switched my gamer from W10 to a fresh W11 build and did exactly this. It's all patched and WMR works as normal.

You did well. It didn't work for me, I was due to upgrade my desktop anyhow, so I bought W11, installed it on the new PC and then tried to roll it back, according to the youtube instructions in the W11 settings. But it just wouldn't allow. And that was on the same day of the installation.
But in any case, your set up is only going to work until October yes?

 

[El Guido]

I'm fresher than fresh. Just now got into VR by buying a heavily discounted Vive Pro 2. I'm enthusiastic about it to say the least. VR in general. And also about the Vive Pro 2 despite some initial getting used to. In between flying around with my new headset, I've been reading around. And to be honest, the Bigscreen 2 tickles me most at the moment. Call me silly but I'm so happy bout this Vive that I almost want a second one, just to be able to share. But seeing all this new tech gets me wild too. I do agree with what CMDR tact8t88 wrote: The Crystal looks awesome, but I rather buy a headset that utilizes my existing hardware than need to wait for the next expensive gpu. For the most I'm dreaming here too, with my wishes.. (for a Bigscreen2 etc.)

I do wish Elite, Frontier Developments, picks up Elite in VR. And I kind of wonder in how true this statement is: But it seems that today the VR still isn't a priority for Elite Odyssey. If I'm not wrong. And though my 2080ti is obsolete as can be; it's not a daft card. I am kind off surprised in how heavy VR turns out to be.

But I noticed that on the website of Bigscreen there are some "recommended games to try in VR". Guess which game isn't named. ..

View attachment 429784

Dear Frontier, In my other topic I wrote I bought my headset on a whim. Didn't read up to much beforehand. All true. But what is also true is when I did read something VR wise about the last ten years or so, I always thought and wanted to do so in Elite. (!!)

Well I'm playing every night ED in VR and it's a truly great experience. I especially like the cockpit detail that they've put into the new ships. And the feeling of extreme lonliness when you step out onto a planet.
Also I recall the first time I saw and heard a live thargoid Titan in VR. It must be the scariest sight in gaming.

 

[Groman]

Guess which game isn't named.

I believe they used to have a video on their main page, showcasing several games.
One of them was Elite Dangerous.
I think it makes more sense to play Elite with the BSB2 because the BSB1 have its issues quite visible in Elite due to the nature of the game.
Glare when a bright body is in sight and blurriness if you glance at your HUD readings without turning your head.

I kinda got used to it but now that I heard about the improvements of the BSB2, I'm really tempted to upgrade.
That's also quite cheaper than a RTX 5090 so between the two...

 

[aXeL]

You did well. It didn't work for me, I was due to upgrade my desktop anyhow, so I bought W11, installed it on the new PC and then tried to roll it back, according to the youtube instructions in the W11 settings. But it just wouldn't allow. And that was on the same day of the installation.
But in any case, your set up is only going to work until October yes?

That's strange, I wonder if you DL'd an installer that's post 23H2. My setup will work forever because it thinks it's 23H2. I'll still get patches and fixes but it won't remove any features belonging to that feature release.

 

[Groman]

Guess which game isn't named.

Found it actually, it's here https://www.bigscreenvr.com/experiences#my-gaming

 

[dr00p]

Hi Groman, I stand corrected! I saw it now indeed.

I didn't know about the Bigscreen 1 having the issues it has with Elite you point out. Thank you! I did read a little about Bigscreen 2, and do think it looks awesome. And actually am kind of tempted. Thinking that better lenses will give an even nicer experience (than the Vive2 I have). The company gives the idea they have tried to make a well thought a product. But maybe it it not a bad idea to wait and see how it is.

 

[jojon]

After seeing how quickly somebody made an alternative, SteamVR-native, driver for the MeganeX, I find myself a little surprised that after all this time nobody capable has stepped up to do the same for WMR devices, in anticipation of the amputation.

 

[Groman]

Hi Groman, I stand corrected! I saw it now indeed.

I didn't know about the Bigscreen 1 having the issues it has with Elite you point out. Thank you! I did read a little about Bigscreen 2, and do think it looks awesome. And actually am kind of tempted. Thinking that better lenses will give an even nicer experience (than the Vive2 I have). The company gives the idea they have tried to make a well thought a product. But maybe it it not a bad idea to wait and see how it is.

Hey dr00p,

There are a few reviews of the BSB2, I watched some of them and it is still hard to gauge how much of an improvement the BSB2 is over the BSB1.
I guess we don't have very objective testing methods for VR yet and most of those reviews are enthusiast and not professional tester, AFAIK.

As you said, Bigscreen really seems to be dedicated to their products, the fact that they upgraded to BSB2 the people that ordered the BSB1 just before it was announced was pretty nice.
They also kept the same OLED panels which also tells me they know what will make their product better for consumers, despite the tech specs looking very similar on paper.
I can respect that choice, when you look at the image in the sweet spot, the BSB1 is awesome, they just need to improve on all the optic issues they have, which they did with the BSB2.

Some of the concerns are also experienced very differently between different people as some of us naturally ignore them over time.
I feel in between as I still notice them but it is not as bad as when I started using the BSB1.

Also keep in mind you will need a beefy graphic card to drive those higher resolution headsets.
With my RTX 4070, I cannot run the BSB1 at it's native resolution in any scenarios.
I'm currently exploring outside the Bubble and can run everything at ultra setting but with a HMD quality (resolution multiplier) at 0.85 in space.
When landing on planets, I have to drop it to 0.65 to 0.5 depending on the planet complexity, I think the more mountainous terrain is causing it but hard to say for sure.
It made me realize ED could really benefit towards a dynamic resolution setting since the scenarios can be so different.

I'm apprehensive of getting back into busy areas, hopefully the planets are really what is killing the framerate.

 

[dr00p]

Hi Groman! Having dipped my toes in experiencing VR now I understand what you say about it being hard getting a objective reading about how well a headset is performing.

I don't know how realistic it is of me to expect to have more room for your eyes to wander around within the headset, though that is a little how I understood an interview I saw. Actually I don't know what to expect at all, comparing it to the Vive I have. To be honest I mostly heard better lenses and I thought woohoo

I do like the companies philosophy in trying to better their product. And I also actually like that they don't have the biggest screen available. The Pimax headset for example looks awesome in it's own right. But I already have troubles driving the Vive As you say, you really need a beefy card.

 

[Groman]

Hi Groman! Having dipped my toes in experiencing VR now I understand what you say about it being hard getting a objective reading about how well a headset is performing.

I don't know how realistic it is of me to expect to have more room for your eyes to wander around within the headset, though that is a little how I understood an interview I saw. Actually I don't know what to expect at all, comparing it to the Vive I have. To be honest I mostly heard better lenses and I thought woohoo

I do like the companies philosophy in trying to better their product. And I also actually like that they don't have the biggest screen available. The Pimax headset for example looks awesome in it's own right. But I already have troubles driving the Vive As you say, you really need a beefy card.

I think it would be interesting to see if someone can compare the Vive and the BSB.
I would say the OLED panels of the BSB are probably better, likewise the weight is very different.
For the rest, maybe people on forums and such have some feedback. Bigscreen has a Discord where people seem to have a lot of experience with various headset so that could be a place to search some info.

 

[jojon]

Actually I don't know what to expect at all, comparing it to the Vive I have.

Yah, I had the original Vive, whose optics had very strong field curvature, producing only a tiny area in the centre that was in focus, from which sharpness rapidly fell off, out toward the periphery (...as well as a lot of glare in the fresnel lens ring segments), and I am not aware of HTC ever getting better lenses for any of their subsequent large form factor models...

Newer headsets typically have a larger radius of decently sharp imagery, even if none is perfect.

 

[dr00p]

And I do want to say that even though I really had to adjust to the Vive Pro 2 I have. Learn to look. Now that I have, I really like the Vive 2 already! Even though not perfect. I guess I'll wait out after summer or so, until these new headsets are out and we can read about their performance.

In my case I better start with upgrading my 2080ti gpu than the headset. Even though it all works pretty ok already. Mostly because I want to have a similar experience in Odyssey as I have in Horizons/Legacy. Which is not really fair to expect, since I guess you can throw all the hardware at it you can find, but - even though I'm still not entirely sure (since a lot of posts regarding this is circa 3 years ago) - if the software is lacking, so to speak, .. You'll get my point.
Otherwise, even now with the hardware I have, Odyssey isn't unplayable or so, I must add.

Still I like the Bigscreen, curious to how it will fold out. Though by now I kind of read the same things as you write about the Hive1, Jojon. About the Bigscreen(1) that is. Or about the same things. I guess inherent things to VR headsets. Namely still a small area in focus. Towards the outside / peripheral vision gets blurry. If I take that to the little exerience I have with my Vive2, I wonder about how different it will be. Though I can imagine the difference will be big. I am really curious and I'm sure I will find out it the future.

Another interest I have is stargazing through a telescope. And I didn't realize before I got a VR. But I guess that the optical gets somewhat similar. Between VR and telescopes. In that you are looking at a projection. Or so I guess, I haven't read it for real yet. And just like camera lenses, you can find telescope lenses in all budgets, of course. With telescopes anyway, the image is projected a small bit in front of the lens. This already gives some sort of 3d effect, if you focus on it (looking at is sideways and so). But in telescopes, or I should say eyepieces - all this time I mean eyepieces you can buy for your telescope. You have them in different apertures giving different zoom rates, depending on your scope you combine it with. Anyway, with telescopes there is also a inherent blurriness to the side / rims of your view. I cannot say it better. But I believe there are lots of eyepieces, easily as expensive as our headsets. Where it is a never ending search for overall sharpness in a seeing. TeleVue is an example of a manufacturer of eyepieces. I'm merely a plumber myself, so all I can be is enthusiast. But assuming the similarity in projected view, I guess I realize the chase for sharpness and fov is no different. But who knows, maybe I'm wrong all together. And also it's easy to think of the obvious differences between a VR headset and a telescope.

 

[Groman]

Makes sense, the technology is fairly recent and hasn't gained huge traction yet.
The fact that some big tech companies are investing in it is hopefully a good sign.

On the software side, I also feel like there were probably not a lot of updates/improvements to VR since there was no announcements and some bugs have been around for years.