Modes BGS is a joke, inf should be for open only

[Mouse]

There was a discussion on the Space Station 13 forums a while back. A big, pointless pedantic argument about the technicalities of their mafia-in-space game, in which one person was essentially complaining that other people who played the game had friends who also played and this was affecting their in-game interactions (rather than playing this roleplaying game purely tactically regardless of who the other character was) - the discussion went on for ages, and towards the end, one simple statement was made that I've found needs to be printed out in gigantic text on every game community on the face of the planet, especially when the hardcore crowd move in:

The moment you forget that this is a game, a thing we primarily play for fun, is the moment you are out of touch.

So with that, 90s, all your talk of players "limiting" themselves, I have one simple question:

Who the hell do you think you are to tell other players how to spend their free time?

Now that deserves 10000 Cargo Units of Cubeo Razorback Bacon. Well said.

 

[Jockey79]

By that account. Something like world of warcraft should have never changed their core mechanics either. Or League of Legends every year.

We're in 2018. Not 1984. Things can change. Games can change. Especially ones like this on a 10+ probably much longer year plan. With Frameworks built around player interaction.

If you'd understand that. And try to be reasonable. Things like letting your birthday get ruined over something small like video game balancing wouldnt be that big of a deal. You let that affect you. No one else.

I think you should be a little more understanding in this nature. And be understanding that games such as this can change from one time period to the next. Its okay things like that change.

Real talk man, no more trolling with each other and circular conversations. Be real about this. And understand things can change.

It would be good for the community and the game.

All I am asking is for you to be reasonable and try to understand there is objective based gameplay here. This has nothing to do with griefing or giving someone a hard time.

It would be no different than a large game board game, or interaction like League.

If you cant get past that. Then sooner or later you'll only have yourself to blame for not being able to adapt and understand some of these things.

weird how WoW is still the same game I've been playing for years - apart from removing the PvP servers that is.

Perhaps ED should remove open world PvP as well, like WoW has?

And being "reasonable" would involve not behaving like you do.
You bought a game with set mechanics, complaining about it and attacking those who enjoy it is not being "reasonable".
Neither is stalking or harassment, of which you've done both.

Funny you should mention WoW, I go the latest expansion, reinstalled and logged back in for a nostalgia trip a couple of weeks ago, rolled some new chars, played some of my older ones, guess what there are no 'core changes'.

Apart from the removal of the open world PvP servers.

Perhaps ED should copy Wow?

There was a discussion on the Space Station 13 forums a while back. A big, pointless pedantic argument about the technicalities of their mafia-in-space game, in which one person was essentially complaining that other people who played the game had friends who also played and this was affecting their in-game interactions (rather than playing this roleplaying game purely tactically regardless of who the other character was) - the discussion went on for ages, and towards the end, one simple statement was made that I've found needs to be printed out in gigantic text on every game community on the face of the planet, especially when the hardcore crowd move in:

The moment you forget that this is a game, a thing we primarily play for fun, is the moment you are out of touch.

So with that, 90s, all your talk of players "limiting" themselves, I have one simple question:

Who the hell do you think you are to tell other players how to spend their free time?

And this is the point that has been ignored, he thinks he is something special and we have to be his content.
well he didn't buy my game, I'll never be his content.

 

[znôrt]

FDev idea about free choice of play modes is imo briliant.

some people like pasta, others are more for meat, yet others yearn for sweet.

so, yeah, let's just throw some steak, some noodles and some pistaccio ice-cream into a pot, give it a shake and call it a menu. brilliant!

I can not imagine any reason why they may want change this.

well, sandro has clearly expressed concerns about that in the botched proposal to make pp open only, wich amount to the acknowledgement that pp as is is not working as intended, so that's already a reason to change this that they themselves have considered.

the real problem is if they would be able to do so at all. reducing solo merits to zero would be only the first step, there would be so much to change in this absurd pot menu that the immediate forum riot would be the least of their concerns.

 

[Stigbob]

some people like pasta, others are more for meat, yet others yearn for sweet.

so, yeah, let's just throw some steak, some noodles and some pistaccio ice-cream into a pot, give it a shake and call it a menu. brilliant!

well, sandro has clearly expressed concerns about that in the botched proposal to make pp open only, wich amount to the acknowledgement that pp as is is not working as intended, so that's already a reason to change this that they themselves have considered.

the real problem is if they would be able to do so at all. there would be so much to change in this absurd pot menu that the immediate forum riot would be the least of their concerns.

He toyed with the idea of an open bonus then discarded it, he also toyed with the idea of open only PP. Which now seems to have gone the same way.

Never mind though PVP and open are only relevant to the people who prefer them anyway.

 

[Braandlin]

There was a discussion on the Space Station 13 forums a while back. A big, pointless pedantic argument about the technicalities of their mafia-in-space game, in which one person was essentially complaining that other people who played the game had friends who also played and this was affecting their in-game interactions (rather than playing this roleplaying game purely tactically regardless of who the other character was) - the discussion went on for ages, and towards the end, one simple statement was made that I've found needs to be printed out in gigantic text on every game community on the face of the planet, especially when the hardcore crowd move in:

The moment you forget that this is a game, a thing we primarily play for fun, is the moment you are out of touch.

So with that, 90s, all your talk of players "limiting" themselves, I have one simple question:

Who the hell do you think you are to tell other players how to spend their free time?

well said

 

[Jockey79]

well, sandro has clearly expressed concerns about that in the botched proposal to make pp open only, wich amount to the acknowledgement that pp as is is not working as intended, so that's already a reason to change this that they themselves have considered.

the real problem is if they would be able to do so at all. reducing solo merits to zero would be only the first step, there would be so much to change in this absurd pot menu that the immediate forum riot would be the least of their concerns.

PP was supposed to encourage (or give a reason for) PvP.

However, it was implemented for all players in all modes (just like the rest of the game), which has lead where we all knew it would go.... to the hands of the meta players.

Now this can be fixed, there have been some great suggestions to do just that.
However, just like real life where some folks are colour blind... a few ED players are mode blind and cannot see past the mode system.
So while PP can be fixed without touching the mode system, those mode blind players are screaming about the mode system because they are far too limited in their understanding to truly get the problem.

Mode locking content will not increase the numbers of people who play it, it will do the opposite.
Making it a fair system so PvP doesn't dominate PvE to get the goals (as in PvP risk & reward Vs PvE risk & reward) will increase the population in open.

Because right now, why would a Cutter risk over 100 million + cargo when that Vulture only risks 50 million?
That is not fair or balanced gameplay.

This is also why CQC failed, mode blind people are also not after a fair fight, CQC was fair fight PvP... hence those people avoided it.
And Elite wasn't made for 12 year olds with ego problems to splat people in starter zones until they feel better about themselves.
It was made for grown ups who can and will opt out of that utter .

 

[Braandlin]

[...] And Elite wasn't made for 12 year olds with ego problems to splat people in starter zones until they feel better about themselves.
It was made for grown ups who can and will opt out of that utter [ S H I T ] .

Fixed that for you
Couldn't agree more.

 

[Jockey79]

Fixed that for you
Couldn't agree more.

I had not noticed the filters had removed the word I picked... but yours is better, so we will go with that

 

[znôrt]

PP was supposed to encourage (or give a reason for) PvP.

i don't think so (but read on):

1.3 POWERPLAY.

Pledge allegiance to one of a number of galactic Power characters, gain rewards and influence that character's battle for interstellar conquest, power and control.

this clearly suggests the grindfest that it is, at least to anyone having played elite for a while at that time (done cg, bounty hunting, etc). imo frontier has never ever seriously bothered with pvp and expected it to be magically happening 'emergent content'. actually, pvp has never been as vibrant in elite as it was at the start until engineers (while we were all still innocent and ships were ships, not magic boxes ). but pvp is complex, and doesn't 'just happen'.

imo the hinted (really nothing more than a feeble hint) shift towards pvp was just an attempt to salvage the decaying powerplay. it wouldn't have provided a serious pvp environment without several deep changes (network, ship balancing, etc) either. also, the several month long 'balancing' periods were not really a honest attempt to balance pvp, but just filling time with something that needed really very little development resources, while fixing the most offending screw ups.

 

[Morbad]

This complaint would be valid in a standard MMO, with everyone playing in a single "world".

We are all playing in a single world; the BGS is precisely what ties all these disparate modes and instances together.

 

[Jockey79]

i don't think so (but read on):



this clearly suggests the grindfest that it is, at least to anyone having played elite for a while at that time (done cg, bounty hunting, etc). imo frontier has never ever seriously bothered with pvp and expected it to be magically happening 'emergent content'. actually, pvp has never been as vibrant in elite as it was at the start until engineers (while we were all still innocent and ships were ships, not magic boxes ). but pvp is complex, and doesn't 'just happen'.

imo the hinted (really nothing more than a feeble hint) shift towards pvp was just an attempt to salvage the decaying powerplay. it wouldn't have provided a serious pvp environment without several deep changes (network, ship balancing, etc) either. also, the several month long 'balancing' periods were not really a honest attempt to balance pvp, but just filling time with something that needed really very little development resources, while fixing the most offending screw ups.

Just to help clarify, a quote that's been on the WoI for a while but gets overlooked;

Make no mistake, one element of Powerplay is about competition within a power - that's intentional, but it's also about grand scale territory control between powers, offering context and reward for consensual PvP competition and letting Commanders feel part of a team, which this mechanic would support.


I hope this gives folk an idea about the direction we're heading in.

Put the relevant part in red bold with underline.

PP was supposed to be the "excuse" for optional PvP.

Now it is the excuse for certain forum posters to stalk, harass and insult the rest of us who don't want forced PvP.
So no matter how you look at it, PP isn't being used the way it was intended to be used.

 

[znôrt]

Just to help clarify, a quote that's been on the WoI for a while but gets overlooked;
PP was supposed to be the "excuse" for optional PvP.

thanks. i didn't remember that comment indeed. i agree it aims at providing some room for consensual pvp. still a bit of wishful thinking (in my very personal opinion!).

Now it is the excuse for certain forum posters to stalk, harass and insult the rest of us who don't want forced PvP.

that sounds awful. not me for sure! report, ignore, block or (my favorite, if they merit it) make fun of them!

So no matter how you look at it, PP isn't being used the way it was intended to be used.

ok. i would say that souldn't be a big deal if it's for the better, but i can very well understand the disappointment for someone highly invested in pp who doesn't want pvp. even so there might be solutions to accomodate all styles of play into the conflict, same as you would have folks contributing at the rearguard to a war effort. logistics, intelligence, production, trade. dunno, would you mind not having to fight, but needing an escort to ferry powerplay items around? some of those activities could even be specifically tailored for solo, and contribute in some measure to the global influence of powers.

my point is i think that would be possible to arrange. however, what i still don't see is a pure pvp powerplay scenario working without spiralling into a combat log galore that would completely swamp support (if they did take it seriously at all), mutli wing ganking, ip-filtering or even router dos-ing frenzy. pvp just goes by now because there are no real stakes, it's mainly duels or senseless ganking. but give players something to fight about and i expect the whole system to come crashing down pretty soon. so ... i wouldn't worry much about pvp being forced upon you either! not going to happen, and if it happens it won't last a month

 

[Frank Craft]

some people like pasta, others are more for meat, yet others yearn for sweet.

so, yeah, let's just throw some steak, some noodles and some pistaccio ice-cream into a pot, give it a shake and call it a menu. brilliant!

Ah, a fan of Monty Python logic. Because a duck can float, and so can wood, therefore she's a witch. Burn her!