BGS question

[Thinking]

BGS - key questions,

1. Is the only way to lower the influence of one faction and, as a result, lead it to leave the system, is to complete missions with the rest? (that is, I increase their influence and at the same time "steal" the influence of this selected faction)

2. Can't you do some actions against this one faction? For it to lose influence, then the expenditure of force would be less than performing positive missions for other factions.

3. If there are 4 factions A, B, C, D in the system and he wants to get rid of D, he often does influence missions for A, B, C, but often the mission of A is against C, or B against A, etc. Then it's not like one mission gives influence to A and I take some C, then I do missions for B who gets influence and take some influence from A - I generally mix in the pot of influence, which is like a situation where I want to get rid of mushrooms from the soup of influence ( factions D) but I fish out other ingredients (A, B, C) and put them back in the pot again looking for mushrooms (D)
4. I know you can do transport missions for Faction D and fail them but you get them until you are them positive reputation.... Do I understand all this well, any help?, any suggestions?

 

[darkflemish]

1. Possible but too much time consuming ;-), better find a weakness of the target faction

2. Do scenario's around space installations (kill their ships without getting notorious), kill their ships in a system (most possible you get wanted/notorious) or Black Market them if they own a station

3. See above, weakness = that faction loose inf which you get

4. Fail missions = rep loss not inf loss, but terror taxi hurt (pick up passenger missions of target faction and fly out and do kaboom with your ship)

5. BGS is all about filling different kind of buckets. Cargo missions, passenger missions, bounties etc etc

 

[Thinking]

Great!, thanks, please elaborate if you can ...
1. Weak points, that is, what could they be ...?,
2. the station has a black market and I'm packing drugs there, which I think resulted in a pirate attack, now I'm packing weapons there, you cause a riot, I think. The faction he wants to push out is not the faction controlling the main port, and he lost the rest of the ground outposts as a result of conflicts, so it is unlikely that he can shoot at the base.

3. solution with a taxi - I understand that a given faction does not lose influence here if the quest is not completed, only I lose my reputation with them, even though the quest is for an influence reward? ? Than lowering the impact?

 

[Rebel Yell]

6. You can use black markets if station owns one, selling prohibited goods lower station owner INF... UNLESS it's an anarchy government.

 

[Rebel Yell]

Great!, thanks, please elaborate if you can ...
1. Weak points, that is, what could they be ...?,
2. the station has a black market and I'm packing drugs there, which I think resulted in a pirate attack, now I'm packing weapons there, you cause a riot, I think. The faction he wants to push out is not the faction controlling the main port, and he lost the rest of the ground outposts as a result of conflicts, so it is unlikely that he can shoot at the base.

3. solution with a taxi - I understand that a given faction does not lose influence here if the quest is not completed, only I lose my reputation with them, even though the quest is for an influence reward? ? Than lowering the impact?

2. Just sell prohibited stuff... like 3-4k for small population, 7-8k or more for bigger population systems (millions) effects may vary

3. Lately failing vip passenger missions didn't work as used to be... but yes, you have to repair loss of reputation (look for faction in other systems or earn bounties in system, if it is controlling, and sell to interstellar somewhere else)

 

[Jmanis]

BGS - key questions,

1. Is the only way to lower the influence of one faction and, as a result, lead it to leave the system, is to complete missions with the rest? (that is, I increase their influence and at the same time "steal" the influence of this selected faction)

2. Can't you do some actions against this one faction? For it to lose influence, then the expenditure of force would be less than performing positive missions for other factions.

3. If there are 4 factions A, B, C, D in the system and he wants to get rid of D, he often does influence missions for A, B, C, but often the mission of A is against C, or B against A, etc. Then it's not like one mission gives influence to A and I take some C, then I do missions for B who gets influence and take some influence from A - I generally mix in the pot of influence, which is like a situation where I want to get rid of mushrooms from the soup of influence ( factions D) but I fish out other ingredients (A, B, C) and put them back in the pot again looking for mushrooms (D)
4. I know you can do transport missions for Faction D and fail them but you get them until you are them positive reputation.... Do I understand all this well, any help?, any suggestions?

1. No.

2. Some missions will target other factions with negative influence effects. For most cases, this is lawful factions targeting anarchy factions via Assassinations and Massacres. But because of the way the mission generations work, you'll rarely be able to reliably target a lawful faction with these types of missions. Also note, you'd likely need to get these missions from out-of-system since negative effects will generally apply to a faction outside the system.

You can also do scenarios, commit assault and murder crimes in their jurisdiction (emphasis on in their jurisdiction; if they have no jurisdiction you're out of luck), sell for a loss at standard markets they own, trade at black markets they own (unless they're anarchy) do scenarios (as above), fail missions, but in general it's much harder to generate negative effects against a target (unless it's anarchy) than to run positive effects for

3. I think this bit is what I described above in 2. Unless the target is anarchy, it's really hard to target lawful factions with negative mission effects. It's a major shortfall of the game imo.

4. You can still get some that will be offered to hostile rep... but it's greatly diminished

 

[Thinking]

1. No.

2. Some missions will target other factions with negative influence effects. For most cases, this is lawful factions targeting anarchy factions via Assassinations and Massacres. But because of the way the mission generations work, you'll rarely be able to reliably target a lawful faction with these types of missions. Also note, you'd likely need to get these missions from out-of-system since negative effects will generally apply to a faction outside the system.

You can also do scenarios, commit assault and murder crimes in their jurisdiction (emphasis on in their jurisdiction; if they have no jurisdiction you're out of luck), sell for a loss at standard markets they own, trade at black markets they own (unless they're anarchy) do scenarios (as above), fail missions, but in general it's much harder to generate negative effects against a target (unless it's anarchy) than to run positive effects for

3. I think this bit is what I described above in 2. Unless the target is anarchy, it's really hard to target lawful factions with negative mission effects. It's a major shortfall of the game imo.

4. You can still get some that will be offered to hostile rep... but it's greatly diminished

Ok, What do you mean "their" jurisdiction?, the main faction of the system has jurisdiction and by attacking the police I lower the overall security level of the system, which will have the appropriate effects. However, when I look at the "status" panel in the ship, the faction I am interested in has its security level, but there is no jurisdiction in this system (because it is not the main faction). By attacking this faction's ships, will I only be lowering the security level of THAT faction?, making them lose influence too?, or will I cause them to riot? Or something similar?

 

[Jmanis]

Ok, What do you mean "their" jurisdiction?, the main faction of the system has jurisdiction and by attacking the police I lower the overall security level of the system, which will have the appropriate effects. However, when I look at the "status" panel in the ship, the faction I am interested in has its security level, but there is no jurisdiction in this system (because it is not the main faction). By attacking this faction's ships, will I only be lowering the security level of THAT faction?, making them lose influence too?, or will I cause them to riot? Or something similar?

The main faction has general system-wide jurisdiction.

But station/base owners control a pocket of space around that station under their own jurisdiction... the system controller doesn't have jurisdiction everywhere unless they own every asset as well

But regardless, assault crimes primarily hurt the faction that has jurisdiction in that area (i.e the faction that assigns bounties for crimes committed).

So let's say you're in space controlled by Faction A.
If you attack and destroy ships owned by Faction A (and it's a crime to do so), you'll hurt the security and influence of Faction A.
If you attack and destroy ships owned by Faction B in the same space, you'll still hurt the security and influence of Faction A.

 

[Thinking]

So in my case, when I want to push out a minor legal faction from the system that no longer has its base / port (it is present only in the main port of the system), I have to raise the influence of the other factions?, black market.

 

[Jmanis]

So in my case, when I want to push out a minor legal faction from the system that no longer has its base / port (it is present only in the main port of the system), I have to raise the influence of the other factions?, black market.

They're the most effective. There's other mechanisms (as mentioned above) but they're not very effective by comparison. You may need to employ some of them to "pin" a faction at 1%, but that's a whole other thing.

 

[Thinking]

Są najskuteczniejsze. Istnieją inne mechanizmy (jak wspomniano powyżej), ale nie są one zbyt skuteczne w porównaniu. Być może będziesz musiał zatrudnić niektórych z nich, aby „przypiąć” frakcję do 1%, ale to zupełnie inna sprawa.

hmm, zerkniesz na HIP 107495, może coś przeoczyłem, albo jakąś podpowiedź co robić? wypchnąć frakcję gracza o wpływie 2,9%?

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Tricky one.
- You've got four of the other factions in Civil Wars at the moment. That means that their influence is locked and the free influence in the system is reduced, which makes swings bigger. You'll need to support the other two even more to compensate.
- It's a fairly substantial and active player group which supports that faction. If they're happy with the removal, you can probably ask them to help out to keep their influence low. If they're not happy with it, expect a very large boost to their influence on the final day, which you'll need to do an excessive amount of work to counter. It's possible to force an actively opposed retreat through, but it's incredibly difficult and needs either a substantial force majority or a smaller force majority and very carefully timed moves
- If you just want them out, and don't mind if a different faction replaces them, keep them where they are in the 2-3% range and push a bunch of nearby factions into expansion. One of them will eventually invade the system to attack that faction, and then you just win that war to get rid of them

 

[Shadowsnog]

one pretty good way how to lower factions inf is massacring their surface bases.
just pick some owned by that faction and go...
it brings a whole other set of things to consider/look out for/manage but its pretty fun and does wreck inf.

 

[Thinking]

Could you elaborate on what the faction's weak points might be? to lower its influence, not to raise others.

 

[Thinking]

there must be a way to lower the influence of one faction only works against them. Because raising the influence of let's say 6 factions (at 7 state) to only lower one max is just madness, any ideas?

 

[Mrjupp]

there must be a way to lower the influence of one faction only works against them. Because raising the influence of let's say 6 factions (at 7 state) to only lower one max is just madness, any ideas?

Fail missions in 1 system but ensure that your ability to get missions for them is not diminished, so they need to be in 2 systems.

 

[angusmadmac1]

Its a balancing act , that inf has to go somewhere if you play passenger pinball ( load up with 1 faction passengers who don't like hull damage take off go full fa and switch off rotational correctness and bounce around in the station but don't blow up ) that inf needs to go somewhere , if no-one picks up that inf it stays with the faction or it has little effect . Jane's wine bottle analogy for BGS is still useful . You don't have to work all of the other factions but you don't have to put a lot of work in . 10 inf for the lower factions (a few missions) means that the higher factions have to work twice as hard .

 

[Ian Doncaster]

there must be a way to lower the influence of one faction only works against them. Because raising the influence of let's say 6 factions (at 7 state) to only lower one max is just madness, any ideas?

Yes, but that's not the same as there being an effective way to do so.

You can fail their missions.
You can murder their ships.
You can find missions offered by other factions which attack them (easy for Anarchy factions, very slow otherwise)
You can find installation/megaship scenarios where they're on one side (easier if they own installations) and fight for the other side
You can black market trade against them (if they have a station with a black market)

Most of these are relatively inefficient, whereas helping the other sides can be a lot more effective.

Ultimately the BGS isn't designed to be a strategy game of this sort - they'll fix up some of the worse exploits for that way of using it (which is why there are fewer targetable negative actions than there used to be) but the way things are balanced is not primarily to make for an interesting political game.

 

[Thinking]

Its a balancing act , that inf has to go somewhere if you play passenger pinball ( load up with 1 faction passengers who don't like hull damage take off go full fa and switch off rotational correctness and bounce around in the station but don't blow up ) that inf needs to go somewhere , if no-one picks up that inf it stays with the faction or it has little effect . Jane's wine bottle analogy for BGS is still useful . You don't have to work all of the other factions but you don't have to put a lot of work in . 10 inf for the lower factions (a few missions) means that the higher factions have to work twice as hard .

but it seems to me that if I do two missions with max INF for all 6 factions (except this one) it will bring more effect than doing 12 missions with max INF for only one faction, because then I suspect the rest of the factions will get a reduction, and I care to lower max. INF only one.

 

[Jmanis]

but it seems to me that if I do two missions with max INF for all 6 factions (except this one) it will bring more effect than doing 12 missions with max INF for only one faction, because then I suspect the rest of the factions will get a reduction, and I care to lower max. INF only one.

I'll run the math in a bit to confirm... my gut tells me there shouldn't be a difference, but I'll have to double check.

(Afterthought: wrt the 2 per faction case i suspect that will result in the bigger factions generally taking an influence drop, smaller factions taking an influence gain, and the unsupported faction reducing as well)

Note. Doing positive things for a faction doesn't "lower" other factions directly; it adds positive actions into the influence bucket which, when normalised each tick, means other factions have less proportional influence.

Only actions which generate negative effects per @Ian Doncaster 's comments will directly reduce a factions influence (adding negative actions into the influence bucket)