Modes BGS weighting

[Jockey79]

CQC is another of those points that really highlights the inexperience the team have with multiplayer games, in my opinion.

The fact we're now at a point roughly three years since its original release, and they still havent added private lobbies for matchmaking (leading to you being stuck at the matchmaking screen for long periods) all but confirms this.

I completely agree.

I've seen folks harp on about this being an "experienced dev team" in conversations about multiplayer and I just want to reach through the monitor and slap those people.

I've played several Frontier Developments games (as it turned out), and they all have one thing in common - Single Player.

Just look at the forums;

Jurassic World Evolution - single player
Planet Coaster - single player
Zoo Tycoon - single player
Elite / Frontier - single player

and so on.

People seem to forget, Frontier didn't just step into multiplayer games, they dove face first into shallow water with an MMO called Elite: Dangerous.
I mean, credit where credit is due, ED would make a great single player sandbox. It's an okay low multiplayer sandbox, but MMO... nope.
Clueless when it comes to PvP, completely winging it with game balance and some really bad implementation with multiplayer features.
I still giggle at folks making a wing of 3 and using to people for wing nav beacons to do station to station jumps for trading.
(I'd like to take the time to point out I never did this, but did find it funny people were doing it). As for the PvP content (that you can do in Solo), Power Play...... the less said the better.

So yes, inexperienced is one of many, many, many words.
But they are getting better, we are training them - albeit slowly

 

[Screemonster]

I mean, credit where credit is due, ED would make a great single player sandbox. It's an okay low multiplayer sandbox, but MMO... nope.

One of the best descriptions I've seen of ED is "it's a singleplayer game that you play with your friends". So many people I know that don't like multiplayer games, certainly not MMOs, but still want to "play together" find the elite PG model to be perfect.

 

[Jockey79]

One of the best descriptions I've seen of ED is "it's a singleplayer game that you play with your friends". So many people I know that don't like multiplayer games, certainly not MMOs, but still want to "play together" find the elite PG model to be perfect.

Warframe uses the same mode system, but their open mode ("public" it's called there) is PvE only.
They keep PvP completely separate from the main story game by having to use a special PvP menu to access it.
With free for all, team PvP games and some weird 3v3 lacrosse match thing as well.

Perhaps Frontier should have followed the same route.
Then the PvP'ers wouldn't be complaining about what PvE players are doing.

 

[Havvk]

Warframe uses the same mode system, but their open mode ("public" it's called there) is PvE only.
They keep PvP completely separate from the main story game by having to use a special PvP menu to access it.
With free for all, team PvP games and some weird 3v3 lacrosse match thing as well.

Perhaps Frontier should have followed the same route.
Then the PvP'ers wouldn't be complaining about what PvE players are doing.

But PvP in Warframe is widely more active than in Elite(not counting ganking and murderhobos, I mean actual PvP where the opposing players have an actual gameplay reason for killing each other, other than "git gud")

 

[Brrokk]

While I agree with the sentiment, CQC fell flat because you don't get to use your own stuff and that put people off...

All the rest of the problems you listed make sense, but that one has always sounded weird to me. The common complaint about PvP in ED is that you have to "grind" engineers etc. (i.e. PvE content) for a long time before you can be competitive in PvP. Then along comes this game mode where the "grind" doesn't apply, and we suddenly want to use our own ships. But if we could, it would then require the same "grind" to be competitive in CQC. Cake, or eat?

 

[Jockey79]

All the rest of the problems you listed make sense, but that one has always sounded weird to me. The common complaint about PvP in ED is that you have to "grind" engineers etc. (i.e. PvE content) for a long time before you can be competitive in PvP. Then along comes this game mode where the "grind" doesn't apply, and we suddenly want to use our own ships. But if we could, it would then require the same "grind" to be competitive in CQC. Cake, or eat?

Oddly it was one of the main complaints.

People have earnt FDLs, Corvettes etcs... and wanted to test them out.
But we get shoved into small fighters.

Now if they did maps for S/M/L ships, even if they are preset ships, then it would alleviate some of the frustration.
Because you could at least fly a version of your own ship at least. And on some of those maps, they would be hilarious in an Anaconda or Cutter.

I'd be happy with a basic / stock Cobra or Python to play with in those maps. That'd be really fun imo.

 

[Havvk]

All the rest of the problems you listed make sense, but that one has always sounded weird to me. The common complaint about PvP in ED is that you have to "grind" engineers etc. (i.e. PvE content) for a long time before you can be competitive in PvP. Then along comes this game mode where the "grind" doesn't apply, and we suddenly want to use our own ships. But if we could, it would then require the same "grind" to be competitive in CQC. Cake, or eat?

Pick one, can't have both.

 

[Rampant]

All the rest of the problems you listed make sense, but that one has always sounded weird to me. The common complaint about PvP in ED is that you have to "grind" engineers etc. (i.e. PvE content) for a long time before you can be competitive in PvP. Then along comes this game mode where the "grind" doesn't apply, and we suddenly want to use our own ships. But if we could, it would then require the same "grind" to be competitive in CQC. Cake, or eat?

This is largely due to human nature - those that *have* grinded PvE to obtain a massive advantage over their (sometimes unwilling) PvP combat opponents, just don't then want to be "disadvantaged" by having to endure a level playing field. They'd rather retain their own stuff in order to retain an unholy advantage from the get-go. It isn't about "git gud", it's about the illusion of "being gud" and lording it over your "lessers".

Yours Aye

Mark H

 

[Havvk]

This is largely due to human nature - those that *have* grinded PvE to obtain a massive advantage over their (sometimes unwilling) PvP combat opponents, just don't then want to be "disadvantaged" by having to endure a level playing field. They'd rather retain their own stuff in order to retain an unholy advantage from the get-go. It isn't about "git gud", it's about the illusion of "being gud" and lording it over your "lessers".

Yours Aye

Mark H

You can always drink their salty tears by telling them to git gud

 

[Rampant]

I *could*.


But I'm not at all interested. Not in the slightest.

It strikes me that it is those people who are *most* into PvP combat that absolutely *must* create an unfair advantage for themselves if at all possible.

Sadly, CQC was created directly for those *most* into PvP combat, so it is ironic that those *most* into PvP combat won't use it because they can't get the unfair advantage that they absolutely *must* have...

Slàinte Mhath

Mark H

 

[Havvk]

I *could*.


But I'm not at all interested. Not in the slightest.

It strikes me that it is those people who are *most* into PvP combat that absolutely *must* create an unfair advantage for themselves if at all possible.

Sadly, CQC was created directly for those *most* into PvP combat, so it is ironic that those *most* into PvP combat won't use it because they can't get the unfair advantage that they absolutely *must* have...

Slàinte Mhath

Mark H

MFW you said this:

 

[Mouse]

I *could*.


But I'm not at all interested. Not in the slightest.

It strikes me that it is those people who are *most* into PvP combat that absolutely *must* create an unfair advantage for themselves if at all possible.

Sadly, CQC was created directly for those *most* into PvP combat, so it is ironic that those *most* into PvP combat won't use it because they can't get the unfair advantage that they absolutely *must* have...

Slàinte Mhath

Mark H

I don't call those players PVPers because they don't want PVP and to lump them in with PVP is hurting the PVP community and that is part of the issue. People are judging all PVPers from the action of this "group". Some call them griefers... but they are dominators because they want to dominate others instead of playing with others. In my mind that is a completely separate thing than PVP.

Not all PVP is going to be on equal terms, but those who do everything they can to have no risk while annihilating others before claiming "get gud" or some other crap are not pvping, they are envisioning themselves as "lords" over the rest of us "peasants". ENjoying a game by "mining salt" by making others gameplay miserable? That isn't playing a game.

Funny thing is many times I've been told those are the same that when they are actually threatened themselves, they will likely C-log, which I find funny because will bet you they are some of the same who decry others doing it to them or my clearly stated intentions if they penetrate a PG I am in to PVP those who strictly left Open not to.

 

[GODofDUTY83]

I *could*.


But I'm not at all interested. Not in the slightest.

It strikes me that it is those people who are *most* into PvP combat that absolutely *must* create an unfair advantage for themselves if at all possible.

Sadly, CQC was created directly for those *most* into PvP combat, so it is ironic that those *most* into PvP combat won't use it because they can't get the unfair advantage that they absolutely *must* have...

Slàinte Mhath

Mark H

I stopped going into CQC because players were creating an unfair advantage.
I recorded a group of players in deathmatch that would 3 v 1, me being the 1. Deathmatch = Everyman for themselves. Nope. Not for certain folks. These players did this all the time and probably still do, if they still play. Folks dont like getting tanned. They steam up and break stuff. Something very wrong nowadays.