There are diminishing returns with each booster that become more severe beyond 30% over the resistance values provided by the shield generator itself. The soft 'cap' is around 75% for thermic resistance and a bit higher for the others, but optimal values are generally going to be lower.
Bi-Wave or the usual...
- Thread starter skananote
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There are diminishing returns with each booster that become more severe beyond 30% over the resistance values provided by the shield generator itself. The soft 'cap' is around 75% for thermic resistance and a bit higher for the others, but optimal values are generally going to be lower.
I've considered whether to use a lo-draw biweave on my T7 instead of a prismatic.
My last big fight, the prismatics held while I was being focused by a wing of 3 long enough to get clear of the pack, but I was shieldless for most of the subsequent fight and lost my canopy before they came back, so they were essentially dead weight for anything short of weathering the initial ganking (which I could have escaped from if I hadn't deliberately stuck around to pound their weakest wingman into shrapnel, knowing that my shields could take what the others were dishing out)
Biweaves, I'd have absolutely lost them in the initial attack, but I'd have had them back again three or four times during the fight.
My last big fight, the prismatics held while I was being focused by a wing of 3 long enough to get clear of the pack, but I was shieldless for most of the subsequent fight and lost my canopy before they came back, so they were essentially dead weight for anything short of weathering the initial ganking (which I could have escaped from if I hadn't deliberately stuck around to pound their weakest wingman into shrapnel, knowing that my shields could take what the others were dishing out)
Biweaves, I'd have absolutely lost them in the initial attack, but I'd have had them back again three or four times during the fight.
For resistances, yes.
Also, sixty-six integrity on a hybrid vulture means your ship is going to be exploding with a lot of hull left if you aren't careful, even with two MRPs. The vulture has a centrally located PP and a cubic shape that results in hits to the PP even while firing at the central mass (with no subsystem target) with most weapons from many angles.
By hybrid you mean a mix between hull and shield tank? Didnt have problems with the powerplant yet tbh, I took the MRP mostly because of issues with the canopy. But your explanation definitely makes sense and has me a little worried now.
I use Bi-Weaves on combat ships I expect to be on station for some time. I use A-Raters (I don't have access to Prismatics, but the theory would apply to them as well.) on non-combat ships that I expect to see a fight once in a while and as a one-and-done-combat kind of thing. I like to use the combination of Reinforced + Fast Charge on all of the shields. Even on the Bi-Weaves I end up with A-Rated level shielding while negating the charge penalty that comes with Reinforced. In the end, the more powerful shield still recharges faster than it's type with no Engineering.
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My Rule of Thumb (ROT) :
- intended Combat or Defense against a single Engagement? A-Grade Shields or Prismatics if you got 'em. Shields designed for maximum total strength and egress is to be made shortly before but no later at some time after losing them (there's of course exceptions, i.e. very fast Ships capable to perform a valid Separation in order to complete a Reboot/Repair Sequence to re-attain 50% Shields).
- intended Combat or Defense against repeated or even continuous Engagements (long Station time desired, i.e. farming Bounties at a RES)? Take Bi-Weave and ensure reasonable rebuild/regen times via Engineering and Shield Boosters.
In most normal Scenarios, that means Ships not intended for Combat carry potent A-Grade Shields - while Combat Ships carry Bi-Weaves with optimized Regen/Rebuild rates + Shield Boosters to reflect that.
So at least to me, it's a clear choice between a "1-Trick pony" (survive or fight a single Engagement, purely Defensive or designed against High-Value Targets) or the "All-Rounder Combat Design" capable to maintain Station even in very hostile environments. Latter typically requires provisions for post-Shields Combat, thus requiring a severely hardened hull and considerable Module protection - Internals permitting also an AFMU to extend Station time and keep the Vessel in a combat-worthy condition.
Engineering and specific Ship Builds of course create a large "grey area", so nothing is set in stone.
There's some crazy and interesting build Options that can safely violate above ROT easily.
- intended Combat or Defense against a single Engagement? A-Grade Shields or Prismatics if you got 'em. Shields designed for maximum total strength and egress is to be made shortly before but no later at some time after losing them (there's of course exceptions, i.e. very fast Ships capable to perform a valid Separation in order to complete a Reboot/Repair Sequence to re-attain 50% Shields).
- intended Combat or Defense against repeated or even continuous Engagements (long Station time desired, i.e. farming Bounties at a RES)? Take Bi-Weave and ensure reasonable rebuild/regen times via Engineering and Shield Boosters.
In most normal Scenarios, that means Ships not intended for Combat carry potent A-Grade Shields - while Combat Ships carry Bi-Weaves with optimized Regen/Rebuild rates + Shield Boosters to reflect that.
So at least to me, it's a clear choice between a "1-Trick pony" (survive or fight a single Engagement, purely Defensive or designed against High-Value Targets) or the "All-Rounder Combat Design" capable to maintain Station even in very hostile environments. Latter typically requires provisions for post-Shields Combat, thus requiring a severely hardened hull and considerable Module protection - Internals permitting also an AFMU to extend Station time and keep the Vessel in a combat-worthy condition.
Engineering and specific Ship Builds of course create a large "grey area", so nothing is set in stone.
There's some crazy and interesting build Options that can safely violate above ROT easily.
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I disagree, I like stacking as many MJ as I want on my biweaves, even using Guardian Shield Boosters to increase them further. I nearly always use thermal resistant and force block for my generator, two resistance boosters and the rest heavy duty.
Biweaves don't just have an improved broken regen rate, but vastly higher normal regen rates too. The larger biweaves recharge 2-4 times quicker than a standard shield and 5-8 times quicker than a prismatic.
The broken regen rate doesn't matter if your shield never fails, but the better active regeneration that biweaves offer greatly improve your ship's staying power through consecutive fights, which a large MJ biweave excels at.
This is my PvE Crusader and its shield has only come close to failing once, against a wing of 2 deadly Chieftains and an elite FGS with a fighter. I had also started that fight with slighty less than two rings, since I had just finished off a master conda via ramming.
I think you'd be much better off with all MRPs rather than HRPs, otherwise you'll lose your canopy as soon as your shields are down and you won't get any benefit from the HRPs. Also, I'm not sure about the lasers. The jitter can be a real problem when trying to shoot small ships. Long range might be better because they do twice the damage at 1750M, 100 times the damage at 2950M and infinitely more damage all the way to 6km. From that range, you can kill some ships that can't even see you.
I dunno, that build has 2 MRPs and any more than that is usually overkill (something something maths). You need a blend so that your canopy pops around the 20% hull mark. It's not an exact science but you've got it right when you start seeing limited failures at about 50% hull or less.
Also, a popped canopy isn't really a dealbreaker if you fit an A-rate life support... with 25 minutes on the clock, only a high CZ really poses a risk to that expiring before you need to go back to repair/ rearm. But that's budgeting no more than 30 minutes in a high CZ, and if your canopy is popping in 5-10 minutes, there's something really wrong with your build.
Almost all my fits have A- rate life support for exactly this reason, and it's the difference between winning CZs/ thargoid fights and having to flee.
I've added the second MRP after noticing the canopy issues and didn't have any problems since. Got pretty beaten up by a deadly Anaconda yesterday and the little bug tanked it quite well, I was surprised.
Regarding the lasers I am indeed not very pleased with their performance. As I am using gimballed, will I hit anything at all using long range weapons?How do you determine 'enough' module protection? Like was said before the Vultures OC powerplant sits at only 66 integrity, are the MRP's integrity points added to that?
Also, I am still confused about the 'hybrid' thing... I am guessing that means a mix of hull and shield tank, correct? And can the Vulture work like that or rather not?
You don't need any more than two MRPs, because as others have pointed out your hull will go first in a hull tank / b-w hybrid. You can also have an AMFU repair an MRP too while you fight for extra. Also remember MRPs don't protect external modules.
Like I alluded to above, optimal HRP and MRP combo means your hull should be nearing critical failure (<20%) at the same time as you experience multiple module failures (multiple weapons, thruster and power distributor failures, and canopy blowout), short of being wailed on by dozens of missiles.How do you determine 'enough' module protection? Like was said before the Vultures OC powerplant sits at only 66 integrity, are the MRP's integrity points added to that?
Also, I am still confused about the 'hybrid' thing... I am guessing that means a mix of hull and shield tank, correct? And can the Vulture work like that or rather not?
If you're only getting weapons failure before you need to jump due to hull loss, or your ship is combat-ineffective at ~80% hull integrity, you're unbalanced.
As far as biweave are concerned it’s worth checking if your PD is able to supply enough power for the fast regen, which is often not the case if the shield class is higher than the PD class.
I'll get hammered by the anal brigade for what I'm about to say.
1) only high stacked shields with 50% across the 3 resistances will be optimum in pve.**
So 6000mj prismatic shield on a corvette with x2 7a scbs and alot of A rated boosters will give you maximum resilience in a high cz or threat 6 or 7 pirate furball where you up against 4 or more opponants at once.
A biweave WILL NOT survive this multienemy encounter unless your the red baron, or that nice Canadian chap that shot him down.
Even normal shields will struggle. This is assuming, like me, your solo.
Thats how it is solo. More spaghetti incoming.
Also having 4 pips constantly in shields helps enormously. Although yes pips management should be better. Only spec that allows permanent 4 pips in a vette is multicannons. Less draw on dizzy.
So all high ammo mc array with 4 pipped prismatics and your god in any elite non pvp non ax encounter.
**
50% or more but diminished returns after 50% resistance.
o7
1) only high stacked shields with 50% across the 3 resistances will be optimum in pve.**
So 6000mj prismatic shield on a corvette with x2 7a scbs and alot of A rated boosters will give you maximum resilience in a high cz or threat 6 or 7 pirate furball where you up against 4 or more opponants at once.
A biweave WILL NOT survive this multienemy encounter unless your the red baron, or that nice Canadian chap that shot him down.
Even normal shields will struggle. This is assuming, like me, your solo.
Thats how it is solo. More spaghetti incoming.
Also having 4 pips constantly in shields helps enormously. Although yes pips management should be better. Only spec that allows permanent 4 pips in a vette is multicannons. Less draw on dizzy.
So all high ammo mc array with 4 pipped prismatics and your god in any elite non pvp non ax encounter.
**
50% or more but diminished returns after 50% resistance.
o7
PD is already 7A charge enhanced G5 with super conduits. Not much else I can do on this ship however need to test the difference between super conduits and cluster capacitors recommended by someone in another thread...
If you're a combat noob, here's the advice of another combat noob:
I used to think all sorts of stuff, but today this is what i believe.
Yeah all mine are biweaves and i like it. The usual breather in a res is enough to keep 3 bars up for most of your session. Mine are engineered with thermal resistance up to 50 and on the edges putting back the resistances that thermal takes away.
- If you're going for sustain, use biweaves.
- If you want to min max for one off pvp duals, go for capacity.
I used to think all sorts of stuff, but today this is what i believe.
Yeah all mine are biweaves and i like it. The usual breather in a res is enough to keep 3 bars up for most of your session. Mine are engineered with thermal resistance up to 50 and on the edges putting back the resistances that thermal takes away.