Elite / Frontier Big Bang Day - 10th Sep 2008

[Alien]

On Sep 10th at a location in Geneva scientists are going to use a Large Hadron Collider to recreate a moment 1 billionth of a second after the big bang.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/bigbang/

Yes they've smacked atoms, electrons etc together at the speed of light before to see what will happen but never on a scale like this before.

This experiment is so big that there are some people who fear this event could literally be the end of the world. The scientists really do not know what will happen with this experiment. Lets hope we are all here to laugh at them on Sep 11th.

I'd hate to be denied Elite 4 by some fools in Geneva.

 

[Steve]

This experiment is so big that there are some people who fear this event could literally be the end of the world. The scientists really do not know what will happen with this experiment.

I discussed this very issue just the other day with a colleague who has a degree in physics and has been following this stuff very closely. He assured me that the threat of universal annihilation can be put down to some careless media coverage.
He convinced me so much I'm willing to bet a tenner the world doesn't end

 

[Spacegamer]

This experiment is so big that there are some people who fear this event could literally be the end of the world.

Should be a good show then

 

[Alien]

If you're reading this within 7 days of my original post you should be able to watch the programme about the experiment on www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer

They do mention people being worried about them creating a black hole but dissmiss it as very unlikley. I was only commenting on media reports of people being worried, it wasn't my opinion.

In the build up to Jan 1st 2000, a friend of mine was convinced that the end of the wotld was nigh (yes he was religious). My response was "Well I'll just go and kill myself now then, shall I?).

There have been no shortage of people saying the world will end and there never will be.

Personally, i'm waiting for 26/10/2029. Thats when an asteriod bigger than the one that (supposedly) wiped out the dinosaurs will either hit us or very nearly just miss us. I heard about this 20 years ago. They (NASA & US Military) had better make Armaggeddon (thats the film) a reality.

And while we are on the subject of disaster theories, the earth is overdue to flip it's axis.

But this thread isn't about doomsday.

 

[Mallus Blackhand]

I'd hate to be denied Elite 4 by some fools in Geneva.

Don't forget the Mayan calendar predicts the end of time in 2012... and going by murphys law will probably be a few weeks/months before the release of Elite 4.

So it's not just modern scientists trying to deny us, but ancient ones too.

 

[DraQ]

And while we are on the subject of disaster theories, the earth is overdue to flip it's axis.

Earth only flips it's magnetic axis.

 

[Steve O B Have]

Earth only flips it's magnetic axis.

Excuse my ignorance but does that mean that all the compasses will reverse?

Regarding the OP (original post) I don't mind saying that this makes me a little nervous but would be surprised (assuming we have time to be surprised ) if anything black holeish occurred.

 

[Alien]

Excuse my ignorance but does that mean that all the compasses will reverse?

Mister Ten Have, you being ignorant about a scientific subject? Most unusual.

I don't mind being corrected because I know little about it as well, but I think yes north and south will switch places.

Regarding the OP (original post) I don't mind saying that this makes me a little nervous but would be surprised (assuming we have time to be surprised ) if anything black holeish occurred.

The scientists in Geneva will also be suprised to see a black hole (the theory is that you can't see a black hole, only the effects, yes ?), but seriously the bods in Geneva think that a black hole will never happen.

I discussed this very issue just the other day with a colleague who has a degree in physics and has been following this stuff very closely. He assured me that the threat of universal annihilation can be put down to some careless media coverage.
He convinced me so much I'm willing to bet a tenner the world doesn't end

I'd take that bet, but if I won you'd never pay me !

 

[Steve O B Have]

Mister Ten Have, you being ignorant about a scientific subject? Most unusual.

I don't mind being corrected because I know little about it as well, but I think yes north and south will switch places.

LOL cheers - I was rushing out the door and couldn't be bothered Googleing it

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_magnetic_field#Magnetic_field_reversals

Based upon the study of lava flows of basalt throughout the world, it has been proposed that the Earth's magnetic field reverses at intervals, ranging from tens of thousands to many millions of years, with an average interval of approximately 250,000 years. The last such event, called the Brunhes-Matuyama reversal, is theorized to have occurred some 780,000 years ago.

There is no clear theory as to how the geomagnetic reversals might have occurred. Some scientists have produced models for the core of the Earth wherein the magnetic field is only quasi-stable and the poles can spontaneously migrate from one orientation to the other over the course of a few hundred to a few thousand years. Other scientists propose that the geodynamo first turns itself off, either spontaneously or through some external action like a comet impact, and then restarts itself with the magnetic "North" pole pointing either North or South. External events are not likely to be routine causes of magnetic field reversals due to the lack of a correlation between the age of impact craters and the timing of reversals. Regardless of the cause, when magnetic "North" reappears in the opposite direction this is a reversal, whereas turning off and returning in the same direction is called a geomagnetic excursion.

Clearly I won't be holding my breath on this one

 

[DrBaggy]

Does anyone know if (assuming a black hole doesn't swallow us up first) the energies with this are going to be large enough to produce a Higgs Boson (the "God Particle")? I seem to remember from a couple of years back this was one of the aims.

 

[DraQ]

Personally, i'm waiting for 26/10/2029. Thats when an asteriod bigger than the one that (supposedly) wiped out the dinosaurs will either hit us or very nearly just miss us. I heard about this 20 years ago. They (NASA & US Military) had better make Armaggeddon (thats the film) a reality.

This would be much cooler and just as ineffective as laughable means seen in Armageddon.

Excuse my ignorance but does that mean that all the compasses will reverse?

More or less, like preceded by short period when the Earth magnetic field is messy and disorganized with no overall magnetic south and north, but many small local N and S poles. Not really an end-of-the-world class event.

Flipping the Earth's rotational axis could be quite cataclysmic, if done fast enough, but also quite tricky to pull off. Stopping and reversing a 5.9742 × 10 ^24kg, 12756.2km across, ball of (mostly molten) rock and iron spinning at 1674.36 km/h is a bit of work.

Regarding the OP (original post) I don't mind saying that this makes me a little nervous but would be surprised (assuming we have time to be surprised ) if anything black holeish occurred.

Here, help yourself.

 

[Alien]

I never meant for this thread to be about destroying the earth, but it's certainly a more interesting topic than some bods in Geneva trying to re-create the big bang.

And as for the links Draq posted above - LOL

Only men would come up with ways to destroy the earth (at least I think only men would).

 

[turwhitt]

Only men would come up with ways to destroy the earth (at least I think only men would).

Yes quite right. Women would try to wear the earth down into submission until it changes into what they think they want it to be like

 

[Steve O B Have]

Yes quite right. Women would try to wear the earth down into submission until it changes into what they think they want it to be like

LOL I'm sorry I shouldn't laugh but.... mmmmph

 

[Steve O B Have]

Check out this video on BBC on the Particle Accelerator and what they expect to get out of the experiment - intriguing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00dccnr/

 

[Sir.Tj]

Yes quite right. Women would try to wear the earth down into submission until it changes into what they think they want it to be like

....Sorry.

 

[Steve O B Have]

OK so the idea that I get here is that they are going to send protons around the LHC 11000 times per second, collide them and in the process create a Higgs Boson particle that is many time heavier than the sum of the original protons being collided.

This is supposed to be based around Einsteins theory of E=MC2 - i.e. Energy and Mass are interchangeable ergo if you apply enough energy to protons and smash them together then some of the energy involved becomes extra mass in the form of a Higgs Boson particle.

Fundamentally they are trying to fill a gap in Physics or to discover that they have been wrong in all these years and that there is something else that they should be looking at. Mind boggling.

 

[Sir.Tj]

OK so the idea that I get here is that they are going to send protons around the LHC 11000 times per second, collide them and in the process create a Higgs Boson particle that is many time heavier than the sum of the original protons being collided.

This is supposed to be based around Einsteins theory of E=MC2 - i.e. Energy and Mass are interchangeable ergo if you apply enough energy to protons and smash them together then some of the energy involved becomes extra mass in the form of a Higgs Boson particle.

Fundamentally they are trying to fill a gap in Physics or to discover that they have been wrong in all these years and that there is something else that they should be looking at. Mind boggling.

What amazes me is the fact that Human evolution has managed to get to the point where not only can we hypothosise about this but actually attempt to re-create what is in effect, the result of what happened in the first instance after the theorised "big bang". It's inspiring and terrifying at the same time. Is this a case of creating not a black hole but another of the big man himself, he of the white beard and sandals!

Now that would be intresting....time to brush up my soul a bit I think.

Oh and it would make a great movie!

 

[Steve O B Have]

What amazes me is the fact that Human evolution has managed to get to the point where not only can we hypothosise about this but actually attempt to re-create what is in effect, the result of what happened in the first instance after the theorised "big bang". It's inspiring and terrifying at the same time. Is this a case of creating not a black hole but another of the big man himself, he of the white beard and sandals!

Now that would be intresting....time to brush up my soul a bit I think.

Oh and it would make a great movie!

I know - mad isn't it - it's just so abstract a thought. What kind of a mind do you need to dream it up!

Apparently even if they do create a Higgs Boson, due to the nature of heavy particles, it will just fall apart. What they are going to look for is the aftermath - the smoking gun if you will. There is a hypothisised pattern that they will look for.

 

[turwhitt]

Is this a case of creating not a black hole but another of the big man himself, he of the white beard and sandals!

..thereby proving that no "divine intervention" is required to do so. This to me (as a rabid Dawkins-ite) is the most exciting thing about this.

Creation has pretty much been rubbished as a hypothesis. Zealots hold on to the idea that there must have been some form of divine being to have started the whole ball rolling in the first place. If CERN is able to prove that a scaled-down version of the Big Bang is possible to synthesise, then it takes one more rung out of deists' already rickety ladder.