Big Elite Streamers Giving Up On Streaming Elite?

[Stinja]

... but right now the state of the game is less than optimal

Someone is going to ask you to back up that statement in 3... 2... 1... After all the latest FDev stream got more likes than dislikes - everything is rosy etc.
Thanks for your SC content though @Katie Byrne, i havent watched much of it, but the recent Carrak video was interesting, especially since i'd just tried it out in PTU a few days ago. Interesting to read your thoughts (aka opinions) on this thread's topic.


Anyway, since the OP posted this thread, it would appear a that the answer is "not really". A small number gave up, more diversified, some new ones popped up.
As for the state of the game, that would appear to be contentious, with some pulling out various stats (Steam, Inara, Fuel Rats, Hull Seals, content creator's stats etc) and others discounting them for this or that reason.

One thing statement i would make is this: Odyssey has not massively boosted player numbers, so if the intent was to increase these then it failed. If it was merely to retain or stop the game dying off quicker, then it may have worked. But i'd say it was hardly a resounding success. I guess next financial report will be interesting - especially if they try and plop out the console version just beforehand like they did with the PC one.
If streamers and Youtubers are following Elite for their livelihood, then no doubt we'll see more in the future of how the game's health is reflected on their content.

What will be interesting to see if any cover the console launch, if/when that happens, as usually it's very neglected by content creators. For example they havent highlighted the "CE-108255-1 / CTD issues", nor the lack of current gen (PS5 and seriesX) versions, nor the network / instancing issues and so on.
The state of the console versions is currently really poor (in my opinion), and it will be interesting to see what FDev do with consoles.

 

[ubermick]

So i don't mean to cause offense here but I really do think you are judging on contradictory standards here - Like if someone puts out an opinion piece about ED and it is well recieved, you blame the creator - but the very fact it has been viewed a lot shows that the audience is interested in this subject. Because i'm sorry to say this but regardless of your current feeling towards ED - the Odyssey product has been damaging to the brand.

I have not put out the kind of opinion video you mention, though i know a few creators that have personally, and they are not driven by cynical motivation - they are just sharing their opinion.

I personally am just enjoying SC and sharing our adventures at Skunk Works - it is nice that it has been well recieved yes, but i just like telling the stories.

Noone is claiming YT is an ethical medium, only that ANYONE is free to share their opinion. this is not 'dangerous' - this is the very defiantion of free press in action. you are of course free to publish your counterpoints


my point here is that content creators are individuals that, while some will just post video of the game they are enjoying, others will yes will respond to viewer interests with similar content - but there has to be an audience that WANTS to see this stuff for it to take hold. this is where we are right now - with ED in a less than optimal position and speculation will be abound just like it is when ED was riding high and everyone was excited for Odyssey - I don't see a problem with this that you so emphatically state. There is an open platform for people to post their views in support of ED and FDEV - but right now the state of the game is less than optimal

For what it's worth i hope FDev can turn it around and get back on the right track - i'm not sure it could pull me away from SC but competition drives innovation and isvery healthy to have between different products

All of that I don't have a problem with at all - although I personally think that "well received" does equate to "gets views and clicks and likes". So what people will naturally do, when in a situation where income depends on it, is choose that route. It's the reason "journalists" work for places like Fox News or GB News. My distrust for a lot of this goes beyond Elite Dangerous, and into the realms of the dumbing down of society - people will now only listen to the voices they agree with, and not the ones they disagree with.

Please note that's not directed at you personally - I've never watched your stuff, I'm not much of a Youtube person with the exception of OA and D2EA, and that's because they've been around since basically the beginning. (Which is why I take exception to the sensationalist notion of "some youtubers don't like Elite any more, its dooooooom!")

And again, as I've posted here, there, and everywhere - I don't think ANYBODY is defending what Frontier did with squeezing Odyssey 3 (or more) months early. They did so for end of year/shareholder reasons, and while I understand that as a privately listed company they're legally obliged to put shareholders first, it still obviously doesn't sit well with me or anyone else. That said, I do feel that Frontier is trying (in their own very special way) to make it right. It's not an excuse, its not forgiveness, but its something that many people, in their eagerness to put the boot in, are overlooking.

In terms of Star Citizen. I've seen people on SC's subreddit and elsewhere gleeful about what's gone on with Odyssey. The levels of schadenfreude are off the charts, which is understandable to a point considering the flak their game has gotten. (I should say ours, I'm a backer too). At the moment, the state of Star Citizen - permanent alpha, no beta on the horizon, and the most money spent/invested on any game in history - is under the radar, something content creators don't seem to be talking about, since everyone wants (seemingly) to see everyone point at Frontier and laugh.

 

[Katie Byrne]

All of that I don't have a problem with at all - although I personally think that "well received" does equate to "gets views and clicks and likes". So what people will naturally do, when in a situation where income depends on it, is choose that route. It's the reason "journalists" work for places like Fox News or GB News. My distrust for a lot of this goes beyond Elite Dangerous, and into the realms of the dumbing down of society - people will now only listen to the voices they agree with, and not the ones they disagree with.

Please note that's not directed at you personally - I've never watched your stuff, I'm not much of a Youtube person with the exception of OA and D2EA, and that's because they've been around since basically the beginning. (Which is why I take exception to the sensationalist notion of "some youtubers don't like Elite any more, its dooooooom!")

And again, as I've posted here, there, and everywhere - I don't think ANYBODY is defending what Frontier did with squeezing Odyssey 3 (or more) months early. They did so for end of year/shareholder reasons, and while I understand that as a privately listed company they're legally obliged to put shareholders first, it still obviously doesn't sit well with me or anyone else. That said, I do feel that Frontier is trying (in their own very special way) to make it right. It's not an excuse, its not forgiveness, but its something that many people, in their eagerness to put the boot in, are overlooking.

In terms of Star Citizen. I've seen people on SC's subreddit and elsewhere gleeful about what's gone on with Odyssey. The levels of schadenfreude are off the charts, which is understandable to a point considering the flak their game has gotten. (I should say ours, I'm a backer too). At the moment, the state of Star Citizen - permanent alpha, no beta on the horizon, and the most money spent/invested on any game in history - is under the radar, something content creators don't seem to be talking about, since everyone wants (seemingly) to see everyone point at Frontier and laugh.

thank you for your reply ubermick and for explaining your position further }

For what it's worth i also do not like the criticism of ED from people that were NOT CMDR's - I've met a lot of them the past few weeks - those that are happy to criticise ED but clearly never played it and are completely ignorant of it's good points, which there are in fact many of.

I kinda feel like that ED is like a family member for CMDR's: WE can criticize it, because WE lived it and know it. But those people that are not family should stay out of it

 

[alexzk]

For what it's worth i also do not like the criticism of ED from people that were NOT CMDR's

I don't like what you do there with keywords. Usually I google "ED today" and watch some fresh vids from randoms. And when this query started to pop SC promotion in mass ... I just asked google never show me those channels again week later after 1st pop.

 

[Winterwalker]

thank you for your reply ubermick and for explaining your position further }

For what it's worth i also do not like the criticism of ED from people that were NOT CMDR's - I've met a lot of them the past few weeks - those that are happy to criticise ED but clearly never played it and are completely ignorant of it's good points, which there are in fact many of.

I kinda feel like that ED is like a family member for CMDR's: WE can criticize it, because WE lived it and know it. But those people that are not family should stay out of it

For my 2c, I don't know it's necessary to tag YT posts in such ways as, "an Elite Dangerous Commander now plays Star Citizen instead!" because is has inherently negative connotations on the last, to drop one in favour of another .. with the new being so much better than the old as the obvious - and presumably influencing - subtext.

For me 'constructive' feedback - even pitchforks - in ED forums is one thing but advertising it otherwise neutral viewers, on YT is another. Eveni if you make no comment in the video itself it's too late, you did it in the title and - as quite a few channels probably owe their subscriber base to ED - for me that seems off. It's not like incremental updates to ED - a project that runs on a tiny fraction of SC's budget - are anything new. Why suddenly kick it, like an old dog, at a critical point - it's first major cash injection (paid expansion) for six years. Used it to build subscribers and abused it when it was down. It's what it looks like.

SO IMO, you're not an ED commander when you're playing SC. ED has nothing to do with it except it's genrte. You're a SCitizen or whatever it is.

Too late now, the damage you can do to ED is now done and I hope that kind of thing doesn't bring ED down, especially when you compare what SC looks like - in it's engine - to the Cobra engine. (I don't mean the models because there are obviously more 3D models in SC, more features too. I mean the sense of mass, in the engine). I hope you'll play NMS, Space Engineers etc etc as well, to make your new content less pointed towards a jilted ED. Who knows, Frontier might develop the FPS on from this 1.0 version and you might want to flip back later. Are you going to do the same to SC if you do that? "Star Citzen becomes Elite"?

 

[Vandaahl]

they do act as a yardstick for the community.

lol, no of course not

 

[Katie Byrne]

For my 2c, I don't know it's necessary to tag YT posts in such ways as, "an Elite Dangerous Commander now plays Star Citizen instead!" because is has inherently negative connotations on the last, to drop one in favour of another .. with the new being so much better than the old as the obvious - and presumably influencing - subtext.

For me 'constructive' feedback - even pitchforks - in ED forums is one thing but advertising it otherwise neutral viewers, on YT is another. Eveni if you make no comment in the video itself it's too late, you did it in the title and - as quite a few channels probably owe their subscriber base to ED - for me that seems off. It's not like incremental updates to ED - a project that runs on a tiny fraction of SC's budget - are anything new. Why suddenly kick it, like an old dog, at a critical point - it's first major cash injection (paid expansion) for six years. Used it to build subscribers and abused it when it was down. It's what it looks like.

SO IMO, you're not an ED commander when you're playing SC. ED has nothing to do with it except it's genrte. You're a SCitizen or whatever it is.

Too late now, the damage you can do to ED is now done and I hope that kind of thing doesn't bring ED down, especially when you compare what SC looks like - in it's engine - to the Cobra engine. (I don't mean the models because there are obviously more 3D models in SC, more features too. I mean the sense of mass, in the engine). I hope you'll play NMS, Space Engineers etc etc as well, to make your new content less pointed towards a jilted ED. Who knows, Frontier might develop the FPS on from this 1.0 version and you might want to flip back later. Are you going to do the same to SC if you do that? "Star Citzen becomes Elite"?

honestly i think you do me a disservice here -

I have committed enormous amounts of my time to creating guides to get CMDRs introduced to AX combat as well as being a former staff member at AXI- I've done my part - what have you done for the community exactly?

also my video titles are not 'An Elite CMDR now places SC INSTEAD' -but 'an Elite CMDR plays SC'. there is a difference there and framing it otherwise is disengenuous

do not paint me as someone that 'used ED to gain followers' - I am still the number 1 pilot on the AXI ACE leaderboard - that takes time and commitment beyond what you can imagine.

 

[Bigmaec]

honestly i think you do me a disservice here -

I have committed enormous amounts of my time to creating guides to get CMDRs introduced to AX combat as well as being a former staff member at AXI- I've done my part - what have you done for the community exactly?

also my video titles are not 'An Elite CMDR now places SC INSTEAD' -but 'an Elite CMDR plays SC'. there is a difference there and framing it otherwise is disengenuous

do not paint me as someone that 'used ED to gain followers' - I am still the number 1 pilot on the AXI ACE leaderboard - that takes time and commitment beyond what you can imagine.

Which makes your betrayal even worse to stomach...

Just kidding, of course.

Oh, and autocorrect nearly made "kissing" out of kidding, that would've been awkward

 

[[VR] James Constantine]

honestly i think you do me a disservice here

I write mobile games on the side. It's something I do more whenever my day job has a more managment focus, because programming is something I've always enjoyed doing. Of course, this is not to say that I'm willing to do so for free. While I won't introduce pay-to-win mechanics or bombard users with adverts ever twenty seconds, I do monetize my work. And it never ceases to amaze me how entitled people are, expecting individuals to produce content for their amusement, yet bitterly complaining that that content comes with strings attached, because we should be happy to spend hundreds of hours labouring for the amusement of those who don't appear to contribute anything themselves.

 

[robbyp]

Taking of youtube MFS videos, I recommend Squirrel. https://www.youtube.com/squirrel/videos . He knows what he's talking about (he holds a private pilot license, the video of him flying his plane is very good).

In Youtube land, anything which increases your views seems to be legit to do. I always remember that when viewing them, and take their opinions with a large tablespoon of salt.

 

[[VR] James Constantine]

I always remember that when viewing them, and take their opinions with a large tablespoon of salt.

We live in the age of fake news; anyone who views or reads anything without a large tablespoon of salt should not be encouraged to breed.

 

[Katie Byrne]

Which makes your betrayal even worse to stomach...

Just kidding, of course.

Oh, and autocorrect nearly made "kissing" out of kidding, that would've been awkward

haha regarding the idea of betrayal - there is a kind of skewed idea of the relationship between FDEV and us, the players, by a lot of the peopel replying in this thread

Like ED is a product right? and there are a lot of factors that go into whether someone continues to use the product or tries something new - I've clocked in like 3500 hours of ED- I've had my monies worth and then some, I bought Odyssey and i don't want a refund - but for a lot of the specialized player groups (AX, PVP, Racing etc) the content has dried up a long time ago. Do i think that FDEV should be focusing time explicitly on keeping these groups? well no, they are niche groups sure. BUT the flip side of that coin is that when we get tired of the grind after thousands of hours and go try something new, well you cant really blame us. Odyssey's direction was to double down on the grind instead of moving away from it and i just don't wanna do that anymore.

There is this idea that we owe it to ED to keep playing - how exactly? we don't work for FDEV, in fact we don't get very much in the way of support from FDEV at all for the most part. WE are the customers, we paid for the game, and so if we decide that it is no longer what we want to play and go try new things (and yes, with unavoidable comparisons being made - that is the nature of competing products in a free market) that are exciting and novel we are going to present them to our respective audiences.

It's not malicious, it's just that on this occasion the news isn't in FDEVs favor - Odyssey's launch has not gone well, that is a fact. And reporting on this by many channels - even if sensationalized to varying degrees (which i have also witnessed) is no different in nature to the over-hyping of Odyssey prior to release

 

[Winterwalker]

also my video titles are not 'An Elite CMDR now places SC INSTEAD' -but 'an Elite CMDR plays SC'. there is a difference there and framing it otherwise is disengenuous

That's why I describe it as a subtext. You don't have to be explicit though. Whether you mean it to be or not - it is implicit.

If one of your followers is deciding where to spend a buck on any game, in the first financial quarter in a half decade, when Frontier releases a paid expansion, rather a permanent kickstarter that could have been promoted at any time in the last six years, suddenly by including the name of any other game in the title of content about any other title, sends that message I'm afraid.

The subtext is, you're playing the game your playing in favour of any other games mentioned in the title. Maybe you gave your anti-Xeno score at 10m33s but to someone scrolling youtube unfortunately, splash headlines don't give any explanation, disclaimer, waiver or context. o7

 

[Katie Byrne]

That's why I describe it as a subtext. You don't have to be explicit though. Whether you mean it to be or not - it is implicit.

If one of your followers is deciding where to spend a buck on any game, in the first financial quarter in a half decade, when Frontier releases a paid expansion, rather a permanent kickstarter that could have been promoted at any time in the last six years, by including the name of any other game in the title of content about any other title sends that message I'm afraid.

The subtext is, you're playing the game your playing in favour of any other games mentioned in the title. Maybe you said as much at 10m33s but to someone scrolling youtube the splash headline doesn't give any explanation, disclaimer, waiver or context. o7

right and read my post above - you are asserting that i owe something to ED - I have publicized the game enough and put in enough time to have paid any dues you or anyone else should consider necessary to be considered 'legit' on top of achievements in the game you could never dream of reaching. I don't mean to be rude but the implication that I have done nothing but leech of the game is extremely offensive considering how much and how enthusiastically i promoted the game and the furtherment of AX for so long. expecially when, and again no offense, you most likely have never helped anyone but yourself in the game

 

[Winterwalker]

right and read my post above - you are asserting that i owe something to ED - I have publicized the game enough and put in enough time to have paid any dues you or anyone else should consider necessary to be considered 'legit' on top of achievements in the game you could never dream of reaching. I don;t mean to be rude but the implication that I have done nothing but leech of the game is extremely offensive considering how much and how enthusiastically i promoted the game and he furtherment of AX for so long. expecially when, and again no offense, you most likely have never helped anyone but yourself in the game

I think the expression is, "a little help is worth a lot of sympathy"?

I don't doubt all you've done for ED but your timing is let's say a bit unfortunate.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Excel is the language of industry, business and government.

Just remember if you get a job for PHE you have to relearn a version of Excel 15 years out of date

As for content creators.... Imo they are free to create what ever content they want both in support of and critical of any topic they want so long as it does not break the terms of the platform.

OTOH I don't think their opinions or league positions in the game hold any more weight to me personally than anyone else .

So TLDR yes I think some (not all) content creators (naming no names) have too high opinion of themselves and believe they speak for the masses - and I disagree - but I absolutely support their right to say what they want (again within the rules of the platform)

 

[BigBANGtheory [VR]]

Where it gets shady, and I'm speaking in broad terms, is that anyone with a camera and a microphone can be a content creator. Anyone willing to record themselves over some B-Roll can put their opinions out there for all to see. The thing is when those opinions become used as some sort of yardstick and some start thinking they "speak for the community" when in reality their opinions are no more or less valid than Frontier Customer #43,488. For example, we're conversing in a thread which references a small handful of people who have been critical of the game. Their opinions are somehow more valid to the community than a half dozen people on these forums?

Ah but there is a flip side to that where you also get individuals (usually on forums) that set impossible standards as a justification to dismiss and shutdown any kind of measurement or temperature on a given topic. Where content creators can exercise some legitimacy is where they can demonstrate a degree of popularity on said topics thus making a much stronger argument i.e. their views represent a % as opposed to the whole which of course is never going to happen anyway.

Beyond THAT, it does create an issue when people start doing it for the money. Again, speaking in broad terms, but if people are doing it to put food on the table as you say, then there is going to be a propensity for some of them to sensationalize things above and beyond, pushing the desire for likes, clicks, and sponsorship. Content creation is not some sort of ethical media (which itself is pretty bleedin' unethical in and of itself).

Yes I think that is true you tend to see a pattern of content creators starting out with a genuine passion for one particular game and if they are successful an awful lot basically become obsessed about channel growth.

Where it helps though (and this ties in closely to the above) is the situation where everyone is treated as individuals and then has no more claim to a collective view than anyone else because no one is measuring the common elements therefore the views and opinions are of no real value cos they relate to the induvial.... or to put it another way "I can completely ignore and delegitimise whatever I like and do what I want say what I want and it doesn't matter if I hold a minority view or not it carriers the same weight at least in my head it does" You can apply that to individuals but also to a company that has fallen out of step with its customer base.

A popular content creator however makes the argument stick, it is listened to. If its wildly out of step what you tend to see is opposing views by other content creators.

"Frontier has suffered brand and reputation damage for the Odyssey launch" say it out loud and hopefully stick around for the recovery.

 

[RJ-KNUCKLES]

https://twitchtracker.com/games/80607

https://twitchtracker.com/games/71375

https://twitchtracker.com/games/458781

https://steamdb.info/app/359320/graphs/

https://steamdb.info/app/275850/graphs/

 

[amigacooke]

So TLDR yes I think some (not all) content creators (naming no names) have too high opinion of themselves and believe they speak for the masses - and I disagree - but I absolutely support their right to say what they want (again within the rules of the platform)

Frontier appear to think they are worth cultivating, trips round the office, gifts, etc.

 

[Vandaahl]

Frontier appear to think they are worth cultivating, trips round the office, gifts, etc.

I know of one who got nothing.