Bio signals on Earth type planets.

[Schmack]

You are confusing planet types. Your example is a landable planet with thin ammonia atmosphere with extremely low levels of bio life which is nothing like or comparable to an ELW or Ammonia Gas Giant that has a probability of being covered with abundant life, as indicated by the FSS scan.

I think the "creative vs mechanics" aspect is being argued here so unless you disagree, I don't see a reason to continue.

And I say again: The DSS surface scan does NOT indicate where bio is on a planet surface. It maps where the surface conditions meet the programmed criteria.

I know what the DSS does. The FSS finds X number of bio signals. The DSS shows where each type of plant could be on the planet, but it also shows which types of plant could be there. So, are you saying every planet in the galaxy with similar conditions will have the same life forms? Is it possible to FSS scan a planet with conditions that would sustain life but doesn't have any? If you did that and hit it with the DSS probe, would it show you where this life could be?

Edit:
A much better question is how does the DSS know the "pogrammed criteria" for bio that has never been discovered by anybody in the Pilot Federation? Are we only finding bio that the Pilots Federation already know about and skipping any other life forms that might exist?

The bio seems to mostly have common biological divisions with plants seen on Earth. That Earth data might be enough to distinguish phyla, but maybe not enough to establish species. Plus I have a hard time believing settlements were built on planets in the bubble with many of the bio types present but no one noticed or captured them, even agricultural or botanical sites.

 

[Fixitman]

How many planets have you encountered that showed biological signals and listed perhaps tussock, stratum, bacterium but have none of these present? Are you saying life exists on every planet suitable for that life, in every species that could live there?

I'm saying the DSS only knows what the ship's computer knows. It doesn't detect anything, it's just a best guess based on probe data. That's why it can take entirely too long to find something the first try, then be very easy on a second trip. It is entirely possible to find no life after the FSS/DSS states otherwise. I have yet to see any evidence to that effect though.

 

[Schmack]

I'm saying the DSS only knows what the ship's computer knows. It doesn't detect anything, it's just a best guess based on probe data. That's why it can take entirely too long to find something the first try, then be very easy on a second trip. It is entirely possible to find no life after the FSS/DSS states otherwise. I have yet to see any evidence to that effect though.

You're saying something is possible without evidence? Why do you think it's possible? These best guesses seem to be nearly 100% accurate, if not 100% accurate. That would be considered too accurate to be a best guess unless "best" and "guess" mean "cutting edge technology" and "data analysis".

If the ship's computer already knows, there's no reason to fire probes. The same probes we fire into rings that give us hotspot information or show shipwrecks, Guardian or Thargoid sites, etc. Obviously the sensors return signals the ship's computer was unaware existed prior.

 

[Fixitman]

You're saying something is possible without evidence? Why do you think it's possible? These best guesses seem to be nearly 100% accurate, if not 100% accurate. That would be considered too accurate to be a best guess unless "best" and "guess" mean "cutting edge technology" and "data analysis".

If the ship's computer already knows, there's no reason to fire probes. The same probes we fire into rings that give us hotspot information.

Everything is possible until proven impossible. If it were the other way around, we wouldn't have any technology at all. The DSS and FSS are designed, built, and used by humans, subject to human limitations through all processes. The probes supply the data, to improve the guess.

There is no way to prove these systems are 100% accurate, so anything is possible.

 

[Asmodeus]

I'm still waiting for water on planets.

 

[Schmack]

Everything is possible until proven impossible.

This is argument from ignorance.

There is no proof that X is true
Therefore X is false

You said it's possible. What makes you think it's possible?

If it were the other way around, we wouldn't have any technology at all. The DSS and FSS are designed, built, and used by humans, subject to human limitations through all processes. The probes supply the data, to improve the guess.

I believe you are discounting the fact that the FSS already found the bio, and that the probes actually tell you which bio is present. That's not a guess, else it would have a margin of error. The search area illustrated by the map indicates what has been stated already, an area where the conditions exist to best support the bio.

If we were instead talking about fish, the FSS would find the life form, the DSS would find that the life form is in water and then separate the species of fish by which type of water the fish will normally survive/thrive in. For example, it would find yellowfin tuna, marlin and swordfish in pelagic ocean waters, and grass carp in fresh waters. It would say "Carp, Tuna, Swordfish, Marlin". It would not be guessing where these are. They are of necessity in the water.

There is no way to prove these systems are 100% accurate, so anything is possible.

Universal negatives are not worth exploring. Without evidence of something being true in the game, there's no reason to consider it true. If it exists, there must be evidence else it's a moot point.

 

[CMDR Timber McWolf]

Not really. If I am getting bio signals from planet B and another player isn't, I wouldn't create a narrative to explain it. I'd tell them it's probably a bug, restart your game, open a ticket, etc.

That is a completely different point, if you ask me.
In that case, I would recommend the same as you, as there definitely is something not as it should be.

I'm talking about the stuff we all see and some don't understand. Like in the original post. We all see that our scanners detect the possibility to find a Tussock on the barren planet A, but reports nothing back from planet B except that it is an ELW.
I, using my imagination, some observation, knowledge and common sense, understand that this is because of the sheer amount of biosignals on an ELW. Our scanners aren't built to be able to pick individual biosingnals out of this mass. Besides that the bios we find on these other planets are most likely not suited to live on an ELW. You could call them extremophiles, thriving in conditions that are deadly for most other specimen. I am also aware that not everybody on this planet has the same skills I have and thus might miss some vital points in this. That's what places like this forum are for. People who don't understand or miss something can go here and ask questions and find answers.

 

[CMDR Timber McWolf]

I'm still waiting for water on planets.

We already have.
Oh, you mean fluid water, not frozen?
Well, we have that, too, but we don't have the means to land on those planets, yet.

 

[CMDR Timber McWolf]

There is no proof that X is true
Therefore X is false

You know this equasion works in both directions, right?

There is no proof that X is false, therefore X must be true.

We neither have proof that X is true, nor that X is false - Schroedinger's calling...
Most people seem to prefer the classic "in dubio pro reo" approach in these cases.
Stay optimistic until proven otherwise.

 

[Greasetrap42]

I think the "creative vs mechanics" aspect is being argued here so unless you disagree, I don't see a reason to continue.

You are arguing in circles. Go back to the Original Post. That is what I am discussing.

Landable planets with thin atmospheres and (relatively) very small traces of life that the DSS can map areas that we can go visit.. Versus... non-landable planets with full atmosphere, teaming with life and our DSS does not provide massive lists of thousands of varieties of life that have a probability of covering the entire planet (from the POI of the DSS). Which we can't go down and investigate anyway so it is completely irrelevant to provide a list of thousands of types of life.

It is completely reasonable to assume that the DSS is not designed to catalogue the type and location of thousands of types of life covering an entire ELW planet. Particularly when it is a previously undiscovered planet with varieties of life never discovered before.

Its kinda like asking someone with fancy metal detector that likes to find coins and rings on a sandy beach to go do the same thing in an industrial metal srap yard.

 

[Greasetrap42]

If the ship's computer already knows, there's no reason to fire probes. The same probes we fire into rings that give us hotspot information or show shipwrecks, Guardian or Thargoid sites, etc. Obviously the sensors return signals the ship's computer was unaware existed prior.

a) The DSS uses data from the probes to provide the cmdr with a map that indicates where certain types of life might be found. Without firing the probes there is very little data.

b) It is a video game. The DSS probes travel at a magical speed, gather data in a mysterious manner at magical speed, and report the results back to the ship computer at magical speed. By playing the game we can see how it behaves, but of course it is magical. Players of a video game don't want to spend weeks waiting for probes to travel and analyze the entire surface of a planet and its rings.

c) The information given to the cmdr from the DSS is based on data it already has on whatever it found. After scanning many thousands of planets and almost 2000 bio samples across the galaxy I have never found something actually "new" that wasn't in the ship computer database.... somehow the ship computer already knows about everything I find Including where it might be found and its name. I have never made a bio 'first-discovery' but I believe other than a "congratulations" message... it is found and treated like any other bio.

Never in my travels have I found something new and unique that the ship computer says "New life form detected... Unknown bio. Unknown chemistry. No data found. Until full analysis please use extreme caution". Nope.... every new bio sample I find fills in another square in my Codex.

 

[Frankymole]

I'm still waiting for water on planets.

We have water ice, you can already drive your SRV aro9und on it. You'd need ELW atmospheric pressure (and other criteria t retain that atmosphere, like a magnetic core to repel radiation) to have liquid water.

 

[Fixitman]

This is argument from ignorance.

There is no proof that X is true
Therefore X is false

You said it's possible. What makes you think it's possible?

I see ignorance of the fact that reality is not binary. "Possible" means not proven true or false.

I stated what I see as a reasonable explanation to the OP's question. You're going off on some argumentative tangent.

This is no longer a discussion, so I'm done with it.

 

[Schmack]

I see ignorance of the fact that reality is not binary. "Possible" means not proven true or false.

I stated what I see as a reasonable explanation to the OP's question. You're going off on some argumentative tangent.

This is no longer a discussion, so I'm done with it.

Argument from ignorance isn't a slight against you. It's a logical fallacy. Ignorance, in this sense, means unknown. "Possible" doesn't mean not proven true or false. Possible means it can be done, it's an affirmative. "We don't know if it's possible" would be the right response to not proven true or false.

pos·si·ble
/ˈpäsəb(ə)l/
adjective
able to be done; within the power or capacity of someone or something.
"surely it's not possible for a man to live so long?"

I wanted to know if you saw something in the game that made it possible, like "it's possible to get an SRV into space by putting it on top of a ship and flying it there".

I agree with the reasonable angle.

 

[Schmack]

a) The DSS uses data from the probes to provide the cmdr with a map that indicates where certain types of life might be found. Without firing the probes there is very little data.

Ergo the ship's computers didn't know. This is my point.

b) It is a video game. The DSS probes travel at a magical speed, gather data in a mysterious manner at magical speed, and report the results back to the ship computer at magical speed. By playing the game we can see how it behaves, but of course it is magical. Players of a video game don't want to spend weeks waiting for probes to travel and analyze the entire surface of a planet and its rings.

I'm not sure what you're explaining here.

c) The information given to the cmdr from the DSS is based on data it already has on whatever it found. After scanning many thousands of planets and almost 2000 bio samples across the galaxy I have never found something actually "new" that wasn't in the ship computer database.... somehow the ship computer already knows about everything I find Including where it might be found and its name. I have never made a bio 'first-discovery' but I believe other than a "congratulations" message... it is found and treated like any other bio.

Yes, this is true for IRL sensors as well. If it was done "right" you should get no names for the plants just chemical makeup. As you said, a 1st discovery bio already has a name and is already recognized by that name when scanned.

Never in my travels have I found something new and unique that the ship computer says "New life form detected... Unknown bio. Unknown chemistry. No data found. Until full analysis please use extreme caution". Nope.... every new bio sample I find fills in another square in my Codex.

Unlike the Thargoids that were unknown by our ships when we were first being hyperdicted.

It would be nice to find something with no name, bring it to the forum in a pic and see the discussion around it.

 

[GreySix]

1.7 million according to google. Imagine scrolling through the heat maps.

Endgame content.

Build a science station, staff it with folks, and a few years later ... profit!

 

[sidereal6]

Build a science station, staff it with folks

Have other players come by and kill them.

 

[GreySix]

Have other players come by and kill them.

If you could find them. I'd build it so far away from the bubble, you'd have a better shot at winning the lottery.

 

[Shurimal]

If you could find them. I'd build it so far away from the bubble, you'd have a better shot at winning the lottery.

As soon as it's existence is known to EDDN and Inara, people will come...

 

[Markov Chaney]

I know I don't NEED the information as you say, but is the DSS (a hardware mechanism) making a judgement call? That would be like my landing gear failing to deploy because it doesn't like the look of the ground.

It would also be like a flappy-paddle car refusing to let you change into 2nd from 4th at 100mph. Which... is a thing! And it don't get much more hardwarey than gearboxes...