Black Box Recovery for Exploration Data

[coldkingnowhere]

This idea was inspired by a recent unfortunately explosive encounter with a planet surface after travelling about 30,000 LY and the idea itself is rather simple:

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If your ship is destroyed, travel back to that location to salvage the black box and get back all (or some) of your exploration data (similar to how one can recollect souls in Dark Souls).

Why I think this is a good idea:

• Especially for long-distance explorers, one wrong move can lead one to lose everything. This feels like a harsh penalty for a playstyle that is already not very luctrative.
• The pilot would actually need to get back to where they were destroyed so it's not as though they're getting a free pass.
• This would serve as incentive to get back out in the black after a catastrophic encounter.
• Black box recovery is already established in game lore.

 

[wstephenson]

I would expand upon this by saying:

• On ship loss, your data pod makes a random FSD jump to a system within a 25LY radius.
• You receive the location as an inbox message upon rebuy.
• The data appears as a USS upon system scan/nav beacon scan like mission targets
• BUT, the data also have a chance of being added to any Encoded Emissions USS entered by a player
• This data cannot be accessed directly and sold, but the finder can redeem a voucher for a percentage of its value as with other salvage finds
• The name of the commander having lost the data is shown to the finder.
• If found by a third party, the original owner gets the data back, but upon selling it, a 50% recovery fee is deducted from its value

 

[cmdr underhill]

Not sure about the randomized location within 25 ly, but 3rd party recovery mechanics would be awesome too! +Rep both of ya!

 

[Lestat]

I think it comes down to user error. You did not monitor the G force of a planet before landing and mess up and landed on a high G planet.. I done it before. But with a little common Sense it will not happen.

We also have to remember every part of this game has a risk. If you keep killing pirates with out turning in bounty and die you lose it. If you trade large amount of cargo and a NPC attack you and you die you lose the cargo. In exploration it pretty easy not to lose stuff But like others parts of the game if you don't turn it in and die you lose it.

 

[cmdr underhill]

I think it comes down to user error. You did not monitor the G force of a planet before landing and mess up and landed on a high G planet.. I done it before. But with a little common Sense it will not happen.

We also have to remember every part of this game has a risk. If you keep killing pirates with out turning in bounty and die you lose it. If you trade large amount of cargo and a NPC attack you and you die you lose the cargo. In exploration it pretty easy not to lose stuff But like others parts of the game if you don't turn it in and die you lose it.

How many times have you come across a Large Exploration Data Cache? Apply that to some long range explorers, and this sounds like good gameplay to me.

Also does nothing to reduce the risk of dying because of a silly mistake. Now to make up for it you'll have to grind a long journey (sounds like good incentive not to screw up to me). Also makes the danger of returning to the bubble make more sense. Pirates want your data!

 

[Lestat]

How many times have you come across a Large Exploration Data Cache? Apply that to some long range explorers, and this sounds like good gameplay to me.

We don't need it. Long range explorers know there a risk vs reward. Farther you go the higher the risk. Just like Type 9 cargo full of Painite or a Bountie Hunters that has mass amount of bounties to turn in. You have to learn when is the risk that too great vs reward.

Also does nothing to reduce the risk of dying because of a silly mistake. Now to make up for it you'll have to grind a long journey (sounds like good incentive not to screw up to me). Also makes the danger of returning to the bubble make more sense. Pirates want your data!

See thing is Stupid mistakes can be avoided. It just take Common Sense. It also helps Not being under the influence of something while doing it.

Now the Pirates there Counter Measures and Chaffs to avoid being attacked. Also not going to a low Security station. You can go on Exploration forums and ask for a escort in the bubble.

We don't need the game that hold your hand.

 

[Micha]

This idea has been proposed in the past and personally I think it's a good one, along with certain 3rd-party mechanics such as being able to return the black box to the original Cmdr for a share of the profits.

 

[wstephenson]

Not sure about the randomized location within 25 ly, but 3rd party recovery mechanics would be awesome too! +Rep both of ya!

The idea of randomizing it would be to motivate people to go out and look for others' stuff for them following a loss, but not make it too easy. Call it Salvage Ratting. 25Ly is just a starting point.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

I support this idea, with careful balancing.

Explorers face the longest times between payouts, and while i don't want to remove the risk, i would like atleast a chance to recover some or all of my data.

Even if the black box only lasts X amount of time until it begins to degrade, and finally disappear permanently.

Heck, it could even be a internal module.
Better classes/rating hold more data and last longer.

 

[wstephenson]

The idea of randomizing it would be to motivate people to go out and look for others' stuff for them following a loss, but not make it too easy. Call it Salvage Ratting. 25Ly is just a starting point.

Forgot to say: the other reason for having the data cache jump away from the scene is to deter murder then immediately scooping the cache by the murderer.

 

[NULUSIOS]

The idea is interesting with careful tweaking.

 

[Micha]

Forgot to say: the other reason for having the data cache jump away from the scene is to deter murder then immediately scooping the cache by the murderer.

Although that negates the idea of pirates targeting returning explorers. Be almost impossible to locate something in a 25LY radius, especially near the core.

Perhaps an alternative idea is that even if you find a data-cache, the original explorer is granted any first-discovered tags(*), as well as the majority of the payout, with the pirate/finder only getting a certain percentage of the payout.



(*) I've not quite understood the mechanic that First-Discovered is awarded to the first person to hand in the data, rather than the first person to have scanned the system. By all means award the first one back the money, but the first one to have scanned it should get the tag. Happens in real life that way too - if Person A discovers something, and it turns out later that Person B actually discovered it first, history books are rewritten to credit B (possibly mentioning A).

Again, I suppose they could be marked as co-discoverers, with the original first-scanner getting an asterisk or something against their name.

 

[Lestat]

Although that negates the idea of pirates targeting returning explorers. Be almost impossible to locate something in a 25LY radius, especially near the core.

Perhaps an alternative idea is that even if you find a data-cache, the original explorer is granted any first-discovered tags(*), as well as the majority of the payout, with the pirate/finder only getting a certain percentage of the payout.

*) I've not quite understood the mechanic that First-Discovered is awarded to the first person to hand in the data, rather than the first person to have scanned the system. By all means award the first one back the money, but the first one to have scanned it should get the tag. Happens in real life that way too - if Person A discovers something, and it turns out later that Person B actually discovered it first, history books are rewritten to credit B (possibly mentioning A).

Again, I suppose they could be marked as co-discoverers, with the original first-scanner getting an asterisk or something against their name.

See the first discovered is not the first one that hit the system. Let say Beagle point was not discovered yet. You get there in a week before I do. But I was the first one that goes to the station first. So I would get the First Discovered not you.

Now the 25ly and the finder fee and players gaining a reward even if they die is a bad idea. It promotes players going out and just crashing into planets and dying so they can go back to the bubble. Easy button. Even if they lose half the money it a I win button. We can look at my Sig. I been out for 4,000 jumps every system fully explored. I decide to crash on a high G planet. I would win under your plan. Most explorers don't see exploration as a money maker. but more about sites we see that no one else will see. Also it Role player that make their own story.

Then we have the gold Sellers They tag every earth like planet. Then let say I pay for the Explorer data. I pay for the data and we meet in Sol system and I kill them I get exploration data. Then they go back to those same Earth like planets to do the same thing.

At least right now in exploration unless the player not paying attention or under the influnce of something There very little risk in Exploration.

 

[Micha]

See the first discovered is not the first one that hit the system. Let say Beagle point was not discovered yet. You get there in a week before I do. But I was the first one that goes to the station first. So I would get the First Discovered not you.

Yes, I know how it works; I was saying that I don't agree with the mechanism as-is and propose a slight tweak to it. Under my idea, you'd get the First Discovered Bonus Money, but I would get the First Discovered Tag.

Or we'd -both- get the First-Discovered Tag, but I'd get a star next to my name to indicate that I was really the very first. Something like that.

Right now I'm being hugely penalised as far as FD's go because I'm taking my time coming back from DWE3302 - whereas I know quite a lot of Commanders buckyballed back immediately afterwards. There were a couple even that buckeyballed out and back in the time I was exploring the area around Beagle Point. They were just in it for the glory/participation, not for the exploration.

Now the 25ly and the finder fee and players gaining a reward even if they die is a bad idea. It promotes players going out and just crashing into planets and dying so they can go back to the bubble. Easy button. Even if they lose half the money it a I win button.

No; my points go in hand with the Op's - basically unless you return to pick up your black box after you die you get zilch, zero, nothing, nada, unless another Commander happens to find your Black Box and returns it. Chances of that are minimal.

At least right now in exploration unless the player not paying attention or under the influnce of something There very little risk in Exploration.

Agreed; there is very little risk, but it's all-or-nothing. Come back to the Bubble and get interdicted and mess up the escape because you've been out for over a year and a bit rusty (like me) and get destroyed and -everything- is lost. Under the Op's proposal there's at least the chance for partial recovery. Sure, other professions lose out too, but mostly it's a few hours work lost, not months or years.

 

[Lestat]

Yes, I know how it works; I was saying that I don't agree with the mechanism as-is and propose a slight tweak to it. Under my idea, you'd get the First Discovered Bonus Money, but I would get the First Discovered Tag.

Or we'd -both- get the First-Discovered Tag, but I'd get a star next to my name to indicate that I was really the very first. Something like that.

Well I think that was talk about early DDF forums. I don't think it will change. If we only had 1,000 stars like Eve or Star Citizen ya I would whine about it also. But we have 400 billion stars. I have 4,000 star explored if I lose 20 30 because someone touch it before I did. I not going to whine about 20 30 system. Because I gain 3980 3970 with my name on it. We only explored not even 1% of 400 billion systems from all the explorers.

Right now I'm being hugely penalised as far as FD's go because I'm taking my time coming back from DWE3302 - whereas I know quite a lot of Commanders buckyballed back immediately afterwards. There were a couple even that buckeyballed out and back in the time I was exploring the area around Beagle Point. They were just in it for the glory/participation, not for the exploration.

You have to think outside the box. Instead of taking the most direct Route or most travel route offset your route 200 to 1000ly in a different direction then head to your destination. That why I would never be penalized as much as you will be.

No; my points go in hand with the Op's - basically unless you return to pick up your black box after you die you get zilch, zero, nothing, nada, unless another Commander happens to find your Black Box and returns it. Chances of that are minimal.

But this still promotes gold sellers. As a gold seller go out hit the 100 plus earth like systems then before they get to a bubble have the person that payed for the data with real money they destroy the gold seller and get the credit. That unfair for real explorers that work so hard for the data.

Agreed; there is very little risk, but it's all-or-nothing. Come back to the Bubble and get interdicted and mess up the escape because you've been out for over a year and a bit rusty (like me) and get destroyed and -everything- is lost. Under the Op's proposal there's at least the chance for partial recovery. Sure, other professions lose out too, but mostly it's a few hours work lost, not months or years.

There no shame in asking fellow explorers for escort into the bubble or look for a station that has high security? Thing with exploration is you have to use common Sense even when you fly to the bubble.

 

[Octanoz]

Don't make it spawn close to your last station but in the system you were last. Seriously, the odds of running into someone wanting to kill you outside the bubble are so slim. There's no need for that. You lose it all you have a week to find it again in a USS (or exact same location but may be hard in practice to find and hard to program). And if someone kills you it should be a drop with a degrading percentage. Why should there be no reward for kills?

Sound idea.

 

[cmdr underhill]

Now the 25ly and the finder fee and players gaining a reward even if they die is a bad idea. It promotes players going out and just crashing into planets and dying so they can go back to the bubble. Easy button. Even if they lose half the money it a I win button.

Umm, I'm having a hard time following your thought process here. Who said easy button? If you die, you lose all your data, but if you go back out in the black to recover said data, that's worth something I think.

 

[Micha]

Well I think that was talk about early DDF forums. I don't think it will change.

...

You have to think outside the box. Instead of taking the most direct Route or most travel route offset your route 200 to 1000ly in a different direction then head to your destination. That why I would never be penalized as much as you will be.

I also don't think it will change; doesn't hurt to talk about/discuss alternatives though, does it?

As for not taking the most direct routes - I already do that! Why do you think I'm still out here, instead of having been back 3 times as others have? I'm going to get thousands of FD's, but mostly for uninteresting systems. The "interesting" stuff, and things close to Beagle Point, which I actually care about, is what I'm a bit disappointed about missing out on now. For example I tagged every single B-class star near BP, most of which were untagged at the time. Now most of them are tagged. Ditto with a couple of ELWs, and a huge cluster of systems all of which were untagged at the time, most of which are now tagged. Thanks to DWE3302, nearly a thousand Commanders descended on the area so there's not much left now.

But this still promotes gold sellers. As a gold seller go out hit the 100 plus earth like systems then before they get to a bubble have the person that payed for the data with real money they destroy the gold seller and get the credit. That unfair for real explorers that work so hard for the data.

Not sure I follow. Could you elaborate please?

Uh.. I think what you're saying is somebody hires another person to go out to do the exploring for them, then when they get back, they kill them, scoop up their data-cache and hand it in for the rewards? Firstly, first-discovered tags would only be credited to the owner of the data-cache, not the person handing it in (forget the whole FD discussion, that is separate from the OP's proposal), so it would go to the "gold seller" not the client, negating a huge part of the allure (IMHO), secondly, simply make the "finders fee/percentage" low enough to not make "gold selling" worthwhile. There's other ways to "gold sell" in the game anyway - painite mining, bounty mining, etc.

There no shame in asking fellow explorers for escort into the bubble or look for a station that has high security? Thing with exploration is you have to use common Sense even when you fly to the bubble.

Oh, I'm most definitely going to be requesting the services of Iridium Wing once I start getting close to civilised space!


But still; the point is that accidents can and do happen, and as explorers it's an all-or-nothing gamble with, in my case, by the time I get back, at least 2 years worth of data. I don't care at all about the money, for me it's all about the FD's.

 

[Lestat]

I also don't think it will change; doesn't hurt to talk about/discuss alternatives though, does it?

Well I think it fine the way it is now. It not given to someone that might not be playing the game or quit the game a name on the system before they turn it in. Or even the players that don't turn stuff in for 2 3 years at a time for that reward. It risk and reward. It like racing to the finish line. Who crosses it first get it. For me I not going to whine about a area when we have 400 billion stars and I can put a few with my name on them.

As for not taking the most direct routes - I already do that! Why do you think I'm still out here, instead of having been back 3 times as others have? I'm going to get thousands of FD's, but mostly for uninteresting systems. The "interesting" stuff, and things close to Beagle Point, which I actually care about, is what I'm a bit disappointed about missing out on now. For example I tagged every single B-class star near BP, most of which were untagged at the time. Now most of them are tagged. Ditto with a couple of ELWs, and a huge cluster of systems all of which were untagged at the time, most of which are now tagged. Thanks to DWE3302, nearly a thousand Commanders descended on the area so there's not much left now.

You ever heard of the song You Can't Always Get What You Want by Rolling stones. That what we are face with right now. We are lucky it not like the other games when everything been explored and map out. There still Billions of stars in the galaxy. So there interesting systems out there not just at beagle point. Remember 400,000,000,000 star are in Elite Galaxy. Blaze your own trails don't follow in other players footsteps or you will fail.

Not sure I follow. Could you elaborate please?

Uh.. I think what you're saying is somebody hires another person to go out to do the exploring for them, then when they get back, they kill them, scoop up their data-cache and hand it in for the rewards? Firstly, first-discovered tags would only be credited to the owner of the data-cache, not the person handing it in (forget the whole FD discussion, that is separate from the OP's proposal), so it would go to the "gold seller" not the client, negating a huge part of the allure (IMHO), secondly, simply make the "finders fee/percentage" low enough to not make "gold selling" worthwhile. There's other ways to "gold sell" in the game anyway - painite mining, bounty mining, etc.

The more ways you open up for the gold sellers the more it hurts the game. This game should not cater to lazy cheaters.

Oh, I'm most definitely going to be requesting the services of Iridium Wing once I start getting close to civilised space!

Good. Problem solved. I still keep weapons on my Explorer so I don't worry to much. I also know a station close to the bubble that has high security so I covered my rear.

But still; the point is that accidents can and do happen, and as explorers it's an all-or-nothing gamble with, in my case, by the time I get back, at least 2 years worth of data. I don't care at all about the money, for me it's all about the FD's.

There also ways to eliminate those accidents. It called common sense. Never leave your ship while refueling. When your heading to a planet or star always offset your course by 1 or 2% so your never headed directly at a planet star so you never hit it.. Only issue you will have is lose a little fuel. You might need to call for a fuel rat for that. Never use drugs or alcohol while flying. That all about common Sense.

For me if I am not 100% on the game I log into main menu until I get back into the game.

Umm, I'm having a hard time following your thought process here. Who said easy button? If you die, you lose all your data, but if you go back out in the black to recover said data, that's worth something I think.

Well do you get the easy button in Trading or bounty hunting if you die? Um no. you lose it all. Why should Exploration get a pass? When 95% of the time the user made a mistake.

 

[wstephenson]

Although that negates the idea of pirates targeting returning explorers. Be almost impossible to locate something in a 25LY radius, especially near the core.

Perhaps an alternative idea is that even if you find a data-cache, the original explorer is granted any first-discovered tags(*), as well as the majority of the payout, with the pirate/finder only getting a certain percentage of the payout.

I was thinking this as well - the scooped data is essentially only accessible to the original owner and Universal Cartographics, who deduct a 'location fee' if it is returned by a third party. So scooped data is only worth credits.

Now here's a tough one: What happens Cmdr A loses the data, Salvager B scoops the data but is then destroyed before it can be claimed?