Black Box Recovery for Exploration Data

[Micha]

Now here's a tough one: What happens Cmdr A loses the data, Salvager B scoops the data but is then destroyed before it can be claimed?

You'd now have 2 (or more) data-caches in the USS..

- - - Updated - - -

Well do you get the easy button in Trading or bounty hunting if you die? Um no. you lose it all. Why should Exploration get a pass? When 95% of the time the user made a mistake.

Firstly it's hardly "easy" to have to go 40kLY back to pick up your data, and secondly, which I've already mentioned, there's a difference between losing a couple of hours work and a couple of months..

 

[StiTch]

i support this idea, with careful balancing.

explorers face the longest times between payouts, and while i don't want to remove the risk, i would like atleast a chance to recover some or all of my data.

Even if the black box only lasts x amount of time until it begins to degrade, and finally disappear permanently.

Heck, it could even be a internal module.
Better classes/rating hold more data and last longer.

But...we just got the dbx up to speed, don't make exploration need another slot

 

[Lestat]

Firstly it's hardly "easy" to have to go 40kLY back to pick up your data, and secondly, which I've already mentioned, there's a difference between losing a couple of hours work and a couple of months..

YOU can't calculate one in a few hours while you calculate the other one in a few months. That a unfair calculation. They have to be calculated the same time. How many ships and Cargo and Bounty did a user lose in a few months vs How many ships did the explorer lose in a few months. That would be a fair calculation. It also depend on how safe both players are. Did they take risk or not. Oh let not forget if the player doing CG or playing in Open or solo. We need to factor all of this.

 

[Micha]

YOU can't calculate one in a few hours while you calculate the other one in a few months. That a unfair calculation. They have to be calculated the same time. How many ships and Cargo and Bounty did a user lose in a few months vs How many ships did the explorer lose in a few months. That would be a fair calculation. It also depend on how safe both players are. Did they take risk or not.

Not quite - every successful cargo/bounty run is a partial success. As (deep space) explorers, we can't continuously hand in our partial progress and, in the event something bad happens, only lose the work since our last report.

 

[Lestat]

Not quite - every successful cargo/bounty run is a partial success.

That only true until they die. Or did you forget that? Thing is I have two accounts. So I do know it take a long time rebuy that cargo and trade it for hours to days get back what you lost or as a bounty hunter to recollect the bounty they lost plus expensive combat build Which could be in the millions which could also take hours or days.

As (deep space) explorers, we can't continuously hand in our partial progress and, in the event something bad happens, only lose the work since our last report.

Not true anymore. Remember Jaques station and it seems they will be adding more Deep space stations in 2.3. So as you can see this Feature is not needed.

 

[wstephenson]

This really isn't about making exploration risk free, it's more about making more ways to play the game.

And even if i die and drop 40KLy of data 2 jumps from the bubble, the risk to me going back for it is the same as on the first run - I may well die again.

 

[Lestat]

What it looks like any Major nebula will have a asteroid station. I am updating beta to check it out.

The Commanders Beta Changelog

General

Added asteroid base type station (including air traffic controllers)
Added 32 asteroid bases in various deep space locations
Added some new challenge scenarios

4 new Incursion scenarios
Speed docking
Driver challenge
Ship launched fighter challenge

[video=youtube;db9fHgfh64Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db9fHgfh64Q[/video]

 

[cmdr underhill]

I was thinking this as well - the scooped data is essentially only accessible to the original owner and Universal Cartographics, who deduct a 'location fee' if it is returned by a third party. So scooped data is only worth credits.

Now here's a tough one: What happens Cmdr A loses the data, Salvager B scoops the data but is then destroyed before it can be claimed?

Aha, now this could make it hard to actually implement. Instancing *sigh*

That only true until they die. Or did you forget that? Thing is I have two accounts. So I do know it take a long time rebuy that cargo and trade it for hours to days get back what you lost or as a bounty hunter to recollect the bounty they lost plus expensive combat build Which could be in the millions which could also take hours or days.

Not true anymore. Remember Jaques station and it seems they will be adding more Deep space stations in 2.3. So as you can see this Feature is not needed.

Fair point about trading & bounties. Technically if you had the instancing worked out, trading could work. Example: if you had a friend or wingmate in the instance where you get destroyed, but they take care of pirates or just hang around the cargo. They wait for you to come back and collect. Of course, that would require instances to not be buggy, and for cargo to either not disappear or you to be REALLY fast.

So in other words if you make some mistake and you are REALLY good, you can have a partial save. That sounds like good gameplay to me, so I am changing my position about the randomization, at least for in system where you died. Or make it just really difficult to find the same spot. sort of is right now, at least when not on a planet.

This really isn't about making exploration risk free, it's more about making more ways to play the game.

And even if i die and drop 40KLy of data 2 jumps from the bubble, the risk to me going back for it is the same as on the first run - I may well die again.

Can't rep you again have some virtual!

What it looks like any Major nebula will have a asteroid station. I am updating beta to check it out.

The Commanders Beta Changelog


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db9fHgfh64Q

Hmm, I don't think Colonia really makes a big difference. It's just 2 places in a REALLY HUGE galaxy that you can check in at. AFAIK the stations along the way between Sol and Colonia you can't sell data to, and my impression of the deep space stations is that they will be "deep space" near the bubble. That could be like 6-7000 Ly, and the galaxy is 100 000 across.

I am curious to see if this is true, haven't looked for info on this yet. If it turns out they are scattered all over the map AND you can sell data there, the concept will need a little more tweaking. Maybe finite lifetime sort of like cargo canisters, with an instance lifetime based on the average distance needed to sell data.

Of course, this all requires instancing to work correctly with a functional system of who is able to retrieve the data.

 

[Lestat]

Fair point about trading & bounties. Technically if you had the instancing worked out, trading could work. Example: if you had a friend or wingmate in the instance where you get destroyed, but they take care of pirates or just hang around the cargo. They wait for you to come back and collect. Of course, that would require instances to not be buggy, and for cargo to either not disappear or you to be REALLY fast.

Let me point out a few things

1 Solo players might feel left out if they could not collect their cargo vs Private server or PvP
2 The reason Cargo disappears really fast is any longer it cause server issues. Depending on how much drop and how long it stayed.

So in other words if you make some mistake and you are REALLY good, you can have a partial save. That sounds like good gameplay to me, so I am changing my position about the randomization, at least for in system where you died. Or make it just really difficult to find the same spot. sort of is right now, at least when not on a planet.

Let get back the cargo and the issue we had with it. But let say this Exploration data was retrievable.

1 For the players that want recollect their data. We now have Player ship data and the data they lost. Which might cause issues because of a time limit. If they die again before collect the first data just because they panic? What then. How much of Frontier resource will be used?

2 Players that go oh well It just data who care. We have a 2 week recovery time. That also waste server space. Which could be use for other things.

As we have it now. If we die we lose it all. Just like Traders or Bounty hunters.

Hmm, I don't think Colonia really makes a big difference. It's just 2 places in a REALLY HUGE galaxy that you can check in at. AFAIK the stations along the way between Sol and Colonia you can't sell data to, and my impression of the deep space stations is that they will be "deep space" near the bubble. That could be like 6-7000 Ly, and the galaxy is 100 000 across.

I am curious to see if this is true, haven't looked for info on this yet. If it turns out they are scattered all over the map AND you can sell data there, the concept will need a little more tweaking. Maybe finite lifetime sort of like cargo canisters, with an instance lifetime based on the average distance needed to sell data.

Of course, this all requires instancing to work correctly with a functional system of who is able to retrieve the data.

If you are in Beta. We are going to have Asteroid bases and Megaships that we can dock with. What I getting from megaships they can move different locations with out server reset. and I hope players can follow them.

What I am getting from 2.3 explorers will have it easy.

 

[space voyager]

I wholeheartedly support the black box data recovery option. The loss of a month (or more!) of playing is surely devastating to a player and it can happen only with exploration. I'd be willing to travel again to that location if that would mean recovery of my data.

 

[Lestat]

I wholeheartedly support the black box data recovery option. The loss of a month (or more!) of playing is surely devastating to a player and it can happen only with exploration. I'd be willing to travel again to that location if that would mean recovery of my data.

I have 2 years of data. I not worried about losing it.

 

[space voyager]

That's you. Most of us are worried. One landing gone bad and it is all lost. Or one ganker (for the folks in the open) and same story.

Oh, and I'd love it if it stays personal data, not able to be picked up by others.

 

[Lestat]

That's you. Most of us are worried. One landing gone bad and it is all lost. Or one ganker (for the folks in the open) and same story.

Oh, and I'd love it if it stays personal data, not able to be picked up by others.

See That when you should look at G force before landing user error. If you fear you are going to die entering the bubble Go on Elite Dangerous Exploration forum people will escort you to the nearest station. Solo mode also helps. Also it wise idea to arm your self even for exploration.

It just take common Sense.

I been out for 2 years I not worried about losing anything.

 

[space voyager]

If you fear you are going to die entering the bubble Go on Elite Dangerous Exploration forum people will escort you to the nearest station.

Have you not learned anything from Salami?!

I play in solo and I always check the G when landing. I also understand that accidents happen. An accident in trading can cost you an hour. An accident in exploration can cost you days, weeks, months. Don't get me wrong, I understand your position, I just don't agree with it.

EDIT: The position that being careful will save you every time so there is no need for a safety net can bring you to other conclusions, too - like that there should be no ship rebuy or even that you should only have one life , than you need to buy the game anew. For a casual gamer like me a safety net is more than welcome.