Black Space, Shiny Metal

A lot of space games are very dark, and this really grinds my gears.
Perhaps the worst example of this I can think of is the otherwise decent "Nexus: The Jupiter Incident".
It had dark and almost black metal with bright shiny highlights, and lots of dark and shiny space rocks all dimly lit against a black background with white dots. Good luck spotting a fighter or a missile which were often nothing more than white dots on the black background themselves.
The only real holding point in the game was the beam weapons shining brightly as a defining shape against a mess of white splodges moving erratically on a black background.

A game that is dark is naturally hard to see. This is bad for gameplay.
But it's also bad for aesthetics.

Let's look at how real space looks.

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The space shuttle is brightly lit by sunlight, and the shadows are very bright due to earthshine. Almost nothing is black.

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Even set against the sun, over the night side of the earth, there is definition and depth to the shading of the ISS.

But realism is boring, so what does popular culture views of space look like?

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In Star Wars things aren't so unreal after all. Bright sunlight contrasts against deep, detailed shadows.

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Star Trek is brighter, but follows a similar pattern, tho the sunlight is far more subdued at times.

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The seminal 2001 A Space Odyssey that likely pioneered this look does the same thing. Despite floating in interplanetary space on its way to Jupiter, the Discovery has incredible depth to its dark side that allows it to contrast against the pitch black background.

How does Elite look now?

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Dark, shiny, pure white on pure black, zero depth, dim. No meaningful silhouettes. Difficult to make out.

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These asteroids have a slight backlight from the nearby planet, but are otherwise completely black and have little to no depth, and virtually no silhouette.

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This concept art shares the problem, pure white highlights, pure black shadows, lack of silhouettes. Zero depth.

Does space have to be super bright to remedy this though? I know the game is gunning for a darker more "real" aesthetic. But I think that can be accomplished without sacrificing readability and definition.

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In The Empire Strikes Back, which is a lot darker than its cousins both in story and in look, the shadow of the mighty Executor blots out nearly all light leaving only a faint glow on the smaller star destroyer. This is enough to distinguish it from the background and has a very imposing and dramatic effect.

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The Executor itself is cloaked in blackness too, a soft blue illumination and the lights on its darkest side is all it takes to define this massive shape.

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The opening shot likewise has a dark and dramatic tone.

It's difficult for me to play a game when I can't see what I'm looking at. It's not only realistic to have deep shadows, it's also aesthetically in line with the best of the pop culture space icons. Having silhouettes and details in the ambient lighting is important to distinguish objects against a background, especially in space where many important depth cues are missing.
Using planetshine, global illumination (even faked) and a general ambient of starlight could do wonders for for the lighting situation. And it doesn't have to break with a darker direction for the visuals, it could even enhance it.
 
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A couple of points

A) You are talking about very old concept art

B) Check out the scavenger video (also old, but more in like with what you're thinking maybe)

C) as you get further from the star, the place will be a lot darker and less contrasty

D) I've not seen much black metal in the alpha :)
 
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Shadows in space are properly black in real life astronauts have complained that when they have to work in the shadow of their own hands they cant even see the tools let alone the work surface.

With no atmosphere to diffuse the light things are only back lit from other light sources or reflections of light so once away from anything other than the star it would be black on the dark side of objects.
 
Looking at the videos so far - it was one minor criticism - the cockpit looks rather dingy, there is a lot of "diffusion" of light and not enough clean sharp shadow and the asteroids all look a bit sludgy. (before I get flamed for raising a criticism, don't forget the purpose of alpha and beta periods is to help refine the game!). Lighting all appears to be very yellow/orange in game - not enough whites and vibrant blues....
 
In your picture of the shuttle in orbit the shadows are not totally black because of the specular reflection from the planet below, illuminating the rear. This can also be seen on the Moon when it's a very thin crescent, where you can see the rest of the Moon dimly, this is called Earthshine.

Now, once you get away from a planet (or anything else which can reflact light) or you're beyond the terminator then the shadow will be totally black and only the illuminated side will be visible. This is the case where-ever you are.

Of course, the further away from the star you are the less bright the illuminated side will be but the shadow will still be totally black (in visible light).
 
I think distant nebulas will be another source of non-point light, therefore lighting up the whole system.

No way. Nebula in space are so thin and faint that you couldn't see them with the naked eye even if you were right at their edge, or even inside. All the glorious images of nebula come from telescopes that gathered light over minutes, sometimes hours or multiple observations, to magnify their luminosity by order of magnitude.
 
No way. Nebula in space are so thin and faint that you couldn't see them with the naked eye even if you were right at their edge, or even inside. All the glorious images of nebula come from telescopes that gathered light over minutes, sometimes hours or multiple observations, to magnify their luminosity by order of magnitude.

Not quite true, the Orion Nebula is a naked eye object and would be quite bright if you were close to it. Of course, at that range you'd probably be dead from the radiation being thrown out by the Triangulum stars which are illuminating it. It's the radiation which is exciting the gas and making it glow like a fluorescent light.
 
Not quite true, the Orion Nebula is a naked eye object and would be quite bright if you were close to it. Of course, at that range you'd probably be dead from the radiation being thrown out by the Triangulum stars which are illuminating it. It's the radiation which is exciting the gas and making it glow like a fluorescent light.

I thougth most of those nebula photos are actually taken outside of the visible spectrum of light and then colorized so we can actually see it...
 
Not quite true, the Orion Nebula is a naked eye object and would be quite bright if you were close to it. Of course, at that range you'd probably be dead from the radiation being thrown out by the Triangulum stars which are illuminating it. It's the radiation which is exciting the gas and making it glow like a fluorescent light.

I stand corrected then, thanks for the heads up. I suppose it depends on the actual nebula, some are thin and faint, others bright and easily visible?
 
I stand corrected then, thanks for the heads up. I suppose it depends on the actual nebula, some are thin and faint, others bright and easily visible?

Yes, it depends upon both the density of the gas and the amount of radiation being pumped into them from the nearby stars.
 
I'm glad this topic was brought up because I pretty much agree with all the points raised. I still think the graphics are great but the tweaks in ambient light, stars (which I assume are far from final considering we will be able to visit all of them), planet atmosphere etc. I really like the lighting from the engines but I have to say that a more realistic space would be much more immersive.

I want a game where I can orbit a planet and be mesmerised by the planet atmosphere and lighting when the sun rises and sets...and maybe watch some ships fly into the atmosphere and leave a streak of smoke/flames as they do their re-entry. Maybe too much to ask...I can hope though :)
 
You'll be able to fly around a planet but you won't be able to land on it, nor will you be able to fly fast enough to orbit it.
 
I always thought that unless there was somehow some way of getting photons into your eye, you wouldn't see a thing. If you are in shadow, with absolutely nothing to reflect or diffuse or guide photons to you, all you will see is nothing apart from dim, random flashes from particle excitement.

Cameras react differently to eyes.

Try shining a laser in a completely blacked out room into a cardboard box covered in black velvet inside. Now try the same thing with a filament torch. Now try an LED torch. Now try a HID light. Now try a candle. Now try a neon strip. Now try a fluorescent bulb. Now try a sodium lamp. Now try a carbide lamp. Etc, etc, etc.

Different lights produce spectacularly different effects. I can only imagine what the early x-ray experimenters saw, looking into an emitter tube and reporting grey/green halos.
 
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