Bots in LYR

[sollisb]

Accepting that there 'may' be bots...

How is making PP open only going to fix it ? Anyone?

Consider this; If I wanted to code up something that could auto takeoff, auto navigate and auto everything else, I'd also be able to auto jump as soon as I detect any other player entering my airspace. This 'we could interdict them' is not going to happen. The first thing I'd be doing is injecting a by-pass to FSD jumping. Of course maybe the bot coders are idiots and haven't thought of that.

This whole 'bots! make PP open only' seems like a false flag to me.

 

[Bigmaec]

Git gud at powerplay? It's intended gameplay and emergent solo content, isn't it? It can't be griefing if the game allows it, or can it?

 

[Martind Forlon]

if I remember some older debate which I read, these bots automatically "logs" when something "unexpected" happen. Only FDev can deal with this and "open only" is not any real solution (I support PP open only idea, but this is not a reson why).

 

[sollisb]

Here is a good source of info on what was investigated: https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDange...ripting_and_automation_an_investigation_into/

Did you try sending any chats to CMDR Spagetti? Putting a public accusation about a commander is a hell of a thing.

 

[Jankules]

There are bots and trainers from nearly very beggining of ED and they are still active...,thats the bad news...the good news are: FD is activly fighting these people with a constant temporary or perma bans...

 

[Para Handy]

Its one thing to expand a Power, its another to keep that expansion sustainable. If you want LYR to succeed you can't simply push out to any old system.

I wasn't really alluding to that, merely to the overall contraction of LYR space since powerpants was released.

 

[sollisb]

There are bots and trainers from nearly very beggining of ED and they are still active...,thats the bad news...the good news are: FD is activly fighting these people with a constant temporary or perma bans...

I highly doubt that now. Considering the amount of players, amount of hours, amount of activity and all it would take to monitor it. Then it has to be proven, then a ban can happen. Do you know anyone that was banned?

And I still come back to; If I wanted to ruin someone's PP system, I'd do it in solo or PG, not in open. It just does not make sense. Further, how would making PP Open Only, be of any help when they're already doing it in Open?

 

[Myou]

Proof has been discovered and handed to frontier to deal with, this IS a real threat and the bots are relatively advanced. those who claim Open Only PP is not a fix are wrong, we could then interdict and prevent them harming the faction... Botting in Elite is nothing new and has been a thing for years.

No not really unfortunatively. Botting is just that, if you blow up a bot you'll have minorly inconvienced it and for every bot you kill theres 5 more to take its place. Even a company taking active watch and banning bots by the thousands (see Maplestory 2) at once doesnt do much to borther them, though MP2 is f2p and elite paid which might make this a losing proposition to the botter(s). But you interdicting bots? Even if you got 50 friends? Forget about it.

 

[Leadfoot]

The crazy irony of this thread is that Bots were found out... get this...

because they were in open mode

I know, crazy right? So, in this case you could have destroyed it, or made it log on you. Surely that has to actually illustrate a tiny, tiny bit why it would be a good thing to have Open PP?

And I remember that thread and the video showing the bot activity. You would think that anyone operating a bot would do so only in Solo mode, wouldn't you?

The problem that came up with the entire "open only" mode was that there's no cross-play yet. We could ALL be in Open on PC but we'd never see those in Open who play on PS4 or Xbox. The play mode is equal to all but we can't deal with other players or compete against them because without cross-play, no one can truly interact with the players of other powers.

if I remember some older debate which I read, these bots automatically "logs" when something "unexpected" happen. Only FDev can deal with this and "open only" is not any real solution (I support PP open only idea, but this is not a reson why).

That was exactly what happened in the video linked in this thread. I know that FD won't publicly say what they're doing because they either 1) can't do anything to stop it or 2) don't want to give away who they're about to drop the hammer on.

I can fully understand why someone would want to operate a bot for merits. It's grindy. Even I'll admit that. And yeah, I do my part for my power but I don't make an obsession of it. But I know how hard (almost impossible) it is to rank up unless you really grind at it so the temptation to cheat is pretty obvious.

BUT unless we're all swimming in the same pool and can either assist each other in wings or oppose other powers all together on the same playing field, not everyone is equal.

Then there's that damned time-zone difference thing that blows the entire argument right out of the water, isn't there?

 

[babelfisch]

Proof has been discovered and handed to frontier to deal with, this IS a real threat and the bots are relatively advanced. those who claim Open Only PP is not a fix are wrong, we could then interdict and prevent them harming the faction... Botting in Elite is nothing new and has been a thing for years.

I remember some videos showing bots. What really surprised me was that someone is clever enough to teach them how to supercruise, approach a station, buy stuff, dock and undock, hyperspace to the next system and repeat. That's quite an achievement and a lot of work (not in a positive way though). However, this ultimate genious is too stupid to realise that the bots would be recognised while playing in Open, why didn't he restrict them to PG and Solo?

[tinfoil]They never were bots, but players acting like bots as Agent Provocateurs to push an Open Only agenda. That only makes sense when we are talking about spies, infiltrators and 5C.[/tinfoil]

PS
I am not entirely serious and AFAIK Frontier already acknowledged the existence of bots. Doesn't stop me from wrapping huge amounts of tinfoil around my head.

 

[Vedmo]

I'm assuming the role bots take in PP is strictly a delivery one, and that makes me wonder about the logistics of it. Do these bots maintain rank 5 and only fill up on free haulage, or would they also bot farm the credits to finance buying all that tonnage at 100k (think that's right, been a while since I've done PP)?

 

[Ouberos]

There are bots and trainers from nearly very beggining of ED and they are still active...,thats the bad news...the good news are: FD is activly fighting these people with a constant temporary or perma bans...

Which given the persistence of the Bot problem would not appear to be very effective.

On the positive side at least they are developing some movement in Powerplay instead of the stagnant consolidation which seems to pass as gameplay in pp.

 

[sollisb]

I remember some videos showing bots. What really surprised me was that someone is clever enough to teach them how to supercruise, approach a station, buy stuff, dock and undock, hyperspace to the next system and repeat. That's quite an achievement and a lot of work (not in a positive way though). However, this ultimate genious is too stupid to realise that the bots would be recognised while playing in Open, why didn't he restrict them to PG and Solo?

[tinfoil]They never were bots, but players acting like bots as Agent Provocateurs to push an Open Only agenda. That only makes sense when we are talking about spies, infiltrators and 5C.[/tinfoil]

PS
I am not entirely serious and AFAIK Frontier already acknowledged the existence of bots. Doesn't stop me from wrapping huge amounts of tinfoil around my head.

Nail + Head!

 

[Wrecked]

Maybe it is actually F D working to keep LYR space viable since there seems to be concerted efforts by player groups to diminish LYR. (Presumably the PGs are seeking to deprive people of the 15% discount?)

Sounds reasonable... this game does seem to have an awful lot of "haves" that like trying to F over any of the "have nots" for some reason. I guess that's just another form of griefing by these selfish little children.

 

[Phoenix13]

Lyr's system being expanded, too their loss, has been steadily and quickly going up all day today at a rate that obviously can only be bots. And the fact that we know it happens a lot supports it. I hope fdev reverts the system to its previous state of not being part of lyr... and im an imperial player. This cheating is ridiculous

 

[Mangal Oemie]

The crazy irony of this thread is that Bots were found out... get this...

because they were in open mode

I know, crazy right? So, in this case you could have destroyed it, or made it log on you. Surely that has to actually illustrate a tiny, tiny bit why it would be a good thing to have Open PP?

Rubber, after the initial discovery of bots in Open by AOS and the bans that followed, the bots are no longer in Open, and when they are, they have ports blocked so that they are in Open but cannot be connected to. All the botting evidence of the last 6 months or so is based around traffic reports and other indirect measurements. When they accidentally log to Open, they don't accept messages, nor can they be seen by human CMDRs. And even when they were still visible in Open, they would insta-log on any kind of damage taken.

There are all kinds of reasons why OOPP might be a good thing. But as anti-botting measure it won't be very effective.

 

[NascentChemist]

This is a little off topic, but how in the world could you program a bot to account for the rotation of a station?

Every time you try to dock, the Coriolis type station will be at a different relative angle to your ship. The bot would receive a different landing pad. Upon leaving, the destination star will be at a different angle.

Are there really APIs that deliver enough raw data to overcome these problems?

Edit: Really wanted to delete my shame, but already got quoted...

 

[Mangal Oemie]

This is a little off topic, but how in the world could you program a bot to account for the rotation of a station?

Every time you try to dock, the Coriolis type station will be at a different relative angle to your ship. The bot would receive a different landing pad. Upon leaving, the destination star will be at a different angle.

Are there really APIs that deliver enough raw data to overcome these problems?

It's built into the game: docking computer. And jumps are done by getting out of the station, selecting the new star system and using the left bottom radar widget to line up.

 

[Mohrgan]

This is a little off topic, but how in the world could you program a bot to account for the rotation of a station?

Every time you try to dock, the Coriolis type station will be at a different relative angle to your ship. The bot would receive a different landing pad. Upon leaving, the destination star will be at a different angle.

Are there really APIs that deliver enough raw data to overcome these problems?

Activate Docking Computer.

 

[NascentChemist]

Activate Docking Computer.

I'm an idiot. Was coming back to make an edit.

But how would a bot align with target after the station spits them out at some unknown angle? If they built a model that accounts for the station's
rotation, orbit, etc, maybe we should let them have their fun.

Are these bots not fully automated?