COMPLETED CG Brewer Corporation Planetary Survey Initiative (Exploration)

[Jmanis]

Anything wrong/pointless doing this?
The bounty vouchers collected there are basically the same as in the system, which can be cashed at the megaship for Brewer Corp.
Other vouchers from KWS (I winged up once with a guy that had one equipped obviously) would be the ones that do not count.

Or, did I misunderstand what you mean?

Pirates in Pirate Activity signals are much harder than the ones encountered in RES.

Or so they say, since I've never tried that before.

This one. All pirates in Pirate Activity sites are engineered... and worst, this has no impact on the bounty values.

A master- rank vulture will pay out about 100k, regardless of whether it's engineered or not. An elite Anaconda likewise will pay 200-300k.

But (imo) an engineered vulture in a Pirate Activity site is a much bigger threat (and takes longer to destroy) than an Elite- Rank unengineered Anaconda. So if you want to counter the lockdown, you're better going to nav beacons and res sites which only spawn unengineered targets.

It's something I've gone on about for literal years now... most just say "Oh Jmanis, not everything is meant to be worthwhile!"... which is ironic given the impact in this context... but this is why you'll never see Pirate Activity sites featuring in any get-rich-quick guides. It's just not worth it.

Edit: as a contrast, the threat 5/6 Pirate Attack enemies are roughly equivalent to CZ Spec Ops ships, or Wing Assassination mission enemies... but not as tough as ATR.

Tl;dr, it's not the wrong thing, it's just much slower than other options.

 

[DjVortex]

I admit I am tempted myself; by extending the lockdown I could keep my spot in the top 25%...

I think you are succumbing to a fallacy here. In a large and popular CG if you ever reach the top 25%, the chances that you will ever get dropped to a lower position as the CG progresses is absolutely minuscule. The reason for this is that more and more players will contribute with less than you, pushing you up, rather than down. The people above you contributing more and more has absolutely no effect on your position.

The only way you can get demoted is if enough people bypass you in contributions, but that high in the rankings the amount of people doing that will only be a minuscule fraction of those who are content with being in the top 100% with minimal contributions. In other words, the people bypassing you in the rankings would need to surpass those who come and contribute minimally. The chances of that happening in any large CG are next to nil.

 

[Jmanis]

The chances of that happening in any large CG are next to nil.

Even ones which get extended a week allowing people to bank up more submissions?

 

[hutandrei]

Since the „Brewer Logistics” faction, which is in lockdown, has now 0 influence, shouldn't another faction take over the system?
And when a different faction takes over the system (including over Trailblazer Echo), that basically means the lockdown will be lifted there, no?

 

[Shadowsnog]

A master- rank vulture will pay out about 100k, regardless of whether it's engineered or not. An elite Anaconda likewise will pay 200-300k.

i was getting 1 mil per conda in a pirate signal threat 5
and!
conda explodes much more satisfyingly than a viper...

 

[Alec Turner]

I think you are succumbing to a fallacy here. In a large and popular CG if you ever reach the top 25%, the chances that you will ever get dropped to a lower position as the CG progresses is absolutely minuscule. The reason for this is that more and more players will contribute with less than you, pushing you up, rather than down. The people above you contributing more and more has absolutely no effect on your position.

The only way you can get demoted is if enough people bypass you in contributions, but that high in the rankings the amount of people doing that will only be a minuscule fraction of those who are content with being in the top 100% with minimal contributions. In other words, the people bypassing you in the rankings would need to surpass those who come and contribute minimally. The chances of that happening in any large CG are next to nil.

I don’t know if the nature of an exploration cg is different (with players who've been out for a significant number of days returning with large one-off dumps of data as opposed to the steady progression of other cg's) but prior to the lockdown I got knocked out of the top 25% twice! Admittedly each time I was only within 100 of the bottom end of the top 25% range but, should the lockdown lift, I would not be at all surprised to get knocked out a 3rd time.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Since the „Brewer Logistics” faction, which is in lockdown, has now 0 influence, shouldn't another faction take over the system?
And when a different faction takes over the system (including over Trailblazer Echo), that basically means the lockdown will be lifted there, no?

If you're seeing zero influence, then that's a display bug somewhere - factions can't have less than 1% influence. The latest I see still has it on ~35%, and considerably higher than anyone else.

System takeover isn't automatic in the case of low influence, either - the faction still has to fight a conflict to lose control of the system. This takes a minimum of five days, not counting the time to decide (by equalising influence with them) which of the other factions will try to take over instead.

System takeover doesn't involve the takeover of all assets in the system - it's one at a time, for non-Odyssey stations. The Trailblazer Echo isn't the controlling asset of the system - that's the Karlsefni Holdings surface port - so that would be lost first in a war. The Trailblazer Echo would still be in the hands of Brewer Logistics, so still in Lockdown until a second war was fought for that, which would take another minimum six days to obtain and fight.

So it could happen, but not within the timescale for the CG.

(There's also the chance that the Trailblazer Echo, as a "plot" asset, is locked to Brewer Logistics and can't be lost in a conflict. I haven't checked that)

 

[Rainbro]

most just say "Oh Jmanis, not everything is meant to be worthwhile!"

My favourite response to poor game balance. Frontier acts in mysterious ways, its all part of the plan.

 

[Rainbro]

(There's also the chance that the Trailblazer Echo, as a "plot" asset, is locked to Brewer Logistics and can't be lost in a conflict. I haven't checked that)

As I recall, I checked during the first war and Brewer weren't reported as having any assets as risk, at least on Inara.

 

[Jmanis]

i was getting 1 mil per conda in a pirate signal threat 5
and!
conda explodes much more satisfyingly than a viper...

Right... sorry... i forgot about the payout buff in general. Unengineered conda pirates pay out the same.

Tl;dr my raw numbers are wrong, but the comparative payouts will still be the same, which is the problem.

 

[hutandrei]

So this is a bug, it's not true?

 

[Jmanis]

So this is a bug, it's not true?
View attachment 417430

Just a display bug that usually happens after the tick.

 

[Ozric]

I think you are succumbing to a fallacy here. In a large and popular CG if you ever reach the top 25%, the chances that you will ever get dropped to a lower position as the CG progresses is absolutely minuscule. The reason for this is that more and more players will contribute with less than you, pushing you up, rather than down. The people above you contributing more and more has absolutely no effect on your position.

Definitely not true I'm afraid I've been kicked out of the top 25% many times in trade CGs. It's normally from thinking you have a fairly secure position and then people unloading Fleet Carriers full of commodities on the last couple of days.

Exploration CGs would, under normal circumstances, be the same because you can have people dumping huge amounts of data right at the end.

 

[V'larr]

A good starting point would be to actually interact with the UI. For example I don't explore and am not that familiar with that kind of stuff in the UI. I don't throw a wobbly and say I can't find something when I have to scan or do something. I actually go through the UI and actually find out.

There is also a trend in games to hold your hand where you are told everything- at some point players have to start to join the dots and be proactive about growing skills.

It's valid that games can sometimes go too far (e.g. anything that resembles a 'mobile game interface'), but it is also a common flaw in games that the UI does not accomplish its primary objective of being accessible - and that has been a recurring problem for Elite through its existence.

Blame the game, not the player; improving the game is always positive, expecting players to pick up the slack is invariably a detriment to a game experience.

 

[Factabulous]

“A bad workman blames his tools” is a proverb. It suggests that someone who blames their surroundings or tools for their mistakes is a “bad workman.”

Meaning, they are themselves to blame. If one can’t take responsibility for what they can and can’t do, then they are certainly at fault. The word “tools” is a metaphor that can apply to anything one might use to complete a task. These could be physical things or skills. The “workman” is a metaphor for the person completing the task. When using the phrase, it does not necessarily have to apply to someone who does manual labor.

 

[Rubbernuke]

It's valid that games can sometimes go too far (e.g. anything that resembles a 'mobile game interface'), but it is also a common flaw in games that the UI does not accomplish its primary objective of being accessible - and that has been a recurring problem for Elite through its existence.

Blame the game, not the player; improving the game is always positive, expecting players to pick up the slack is invariably a detriment to a game experience.

Clicking on the faction in charge in the map that tells you to bounty hunt / do bounty hunting related things is easy enough to understand. Thats why you have a galactic and local map, and why what I said (interacting to find out) would show you this very easily.

At some point people will have to understand the synergy between various parts of the UI rather than expect some NPC sat in the co-pilots seat scream out "the Pirates! THE PIRATES! We must bounty HUNT to SAVE the SYSTEM!" in some JJ Abrams like Star Trek scene.

 

[RikonGB]

Definitely not true I'm afraid I've been kicked out of the top 25% many times in trade CGs. It's normally from thinking you have a fairly secure position and then people unloading Fleet Carriers full of commodities on the last couple of days.

Exploration CGs would, under normal circumstances, be the same because you can have people dumping huge amounts of data right at the end.

sounds like a good reason for those already contributed to keep the lockdown going

 

[V'larr]

Its easy to slap together a PvE proof ship and be totally safe in light to medium combat. You really have to go looking for trouble to find it.

I beg to disagree. Outfitting for combat is one of the most continually challenging aspects of the game that I see as the most common hurdle/learning-cliff that newer players encounter, especially because of how imbalanced and often poorly-thought-out aspects of Engineering are, but also because of hitpoint inflation, chaff spam, and other problems of Elite ship combat that have been rather accepted through apathy (and inaction on Fdev's part) than meritous considerations.

Experienced players obviously are aware of how to trivialize combat and pick-and-choose your poison in terms of what combat scenarios to engage in, because we have that knowledge. Newer players do not. Someone who's just coming out of doing exploration for the first time, jumping into any of the "Pirate activity detected" POIs, where there are engineered NPCs galore of varying sizes with FDL & Anacondas aplenty, is going to be in for a very rude awakening. And lord help them if they forgot to get rid of the 1t cargo (whether it's biowaste or a titan component, because why would the NPCs care about that? ) before jumping in....

Without being aware of the value of GSRPs & hitpoint inflation through stacking boosters & HRPs en masse, the passive regen importance of bi-weaves, the exponential power leap that is Engineering - the difference is night and day between 'casual first time doing combat' and 'properly outfitting', which is a fact that has been exploited heavily by gankers throughout Elite's lifetime, even setting aside the purpose-made Engineering weapon special gimmicks (#justFdevthings).

And then there's learning NPC behaviors, how to exploit them, how to match your vector to theirs, how to manage pips, how to not bite off more than you can chew, how to not boost too frequently & how to choke a poorly timed boost using scoop/landing gear; there's much more that goes into just flying a ship competently.

It's the most challenging aspect of the game - well, outside of understanding the black voodoo magic that is the BGS....

 

[V'larr]

Clicking on the faction in charge in the map that tells you to bounty hunt / do bounty hunting related things is easy enough to understand. Thats why you have a galactic and local map, and why what I said (interacting to find out) would show you this very easily.

At some point people will have to understand the synergy between various parts of the UI rather than expect some NPC sat in the co-pilots seat scream out "the Pirates! THE PIRATES! We must bounty HUNT to SAVE the SYSTEM!" in some JJ Abrams like Star Trek scene.

DemiserofD already listed a few great ways to improve the UI without remotely approaching any of the nonsense you describe.

If you're saying you feel Fdev deserves praise for the legibility & synergestic quality of their UI design, well... you can have that opinion.

 

[V'larr]

Ah!
Yes, definitely easier at the RES where it feels like a point & click/shoot (with the extra assistance of the local security at the HIGH one).

I tried yesterday a threat 7 and they were tough, ultra tough shield/hull, engineered to the bones using some experimental effects I was not used to. Never used so many synthesis on the 4 multi-cannons of my Corvette. Triple Beams was just not enough to chew through them.
That was a bit more challenging (but still no threat, since most pirates act independently and therefore do not gank on you), much longer fights, but not more rewarding: a deadly NPC gives the same experience whether the fly a big or small ship (I was hoping to level up my NPC crew), bounties collected were not even higher...just lots of/only deadly pirates.
At the end, I was waiting for pirates to start shooting each other's (not really sure what is the cause of it, maybe stray fire, or they scan each other's for cargo?), then took part of their fight. Was funnier and faster.
I did it once, won't do it again.

I've been doing these POIs pretty exclusively - I detest the annoyance of having the rocks around, and the higher distance of spawns at RES, CNBs have spoiled me. Plus the spawns at Haz-RES are often of negligible quality for the purpose of XP gains.

It's possible to get a spawn table, at least in threat 5/6, where there's a bunch of Deadly Asp Explorers, Vultures, and sometimes wings of smaller ships, amidst the endless parade of Anacondas/Pythons/FDLs that do take more time to tackle by yourself.

If you by habit pre-subtarget powerplants and have a loadout with a fair amount of fixed weaponry (LR plasma slug railguns are pretty ideal, if you have the fuel tank for it), you can still pretty quickly dispatch the opponents in these POIs. (And if you don't care about synthesizing/ammo duration, there's always frags!)

Absolutely more challenging, but it's plenty surmountable.