Broken Promises, A Collection

[Krait_79]

Oh boy! Actually why am I even in this thread, but seeing as I'm here.....

Elite is a long term project. I actually like this idea. Rather than cram in a load of half baked features to please the masses and then naff off leaving us thinking a few years further down the line "I wonder how cool it would be if they remade Elite now". They are instead going to dynamically change the game as time goes by, which will drastically increase the longevity of the game.

Of course it won't please the gimme gimme everything now crowd but i think i can live with that!

So essentially there are not all these broken promises just things that haven't been done yet!

 

[Snarfbuckle]

http://www.giantbomb.com/articles/at-the-last-second-elite-dangerous-drops-offline-m/1100-5096/

This is originally why I backed the game.

-Ability to play the game where I DONT have an internet connection at all times.
-OFFLINE play without hassle with a STATIC universe where I am the only player.

There was actual DRM Free Physical Copies sold that gave them 25K

Sorry but SOLO play is not DRM free OFFLINE play.

 

[inkmmo]

Before moving ahead, if you are going to list things as broken promises at least actually only list things that are:

1) actually broken promises
2) not things that are actually already in game, either wholly or partially awaiting further development
3) not things that FD haven't even started work on yet, keeping in mind the game is going to be developed for many years yet.
4) and suggest not things that have actually changed direction from what was originally envisaged due to changes in gameplay decisions.

You might have a point with one or two things, but even so, you are really stretching the point to call them broken promises.

I suggest you reevaluate your criteria before continuing.

How would you define features currently present in the game that are broken or not function properly? Building new features on a top of not well implemented features will result in creating more problems and with it more discontent. I am playing this game since July 2014 and instancing is still a problem. Let us fix that before we introduce multicrew.

Right now, I think that point 2 of your comment is a grey area and way too many things can be excused using point 2 and thus we can indefinitely use excuse "it is a 10 year development plan".

In order to prolong interest in masses (not individuals) to play this game for a long period of time and spend additional money regularly, FD needs to:

1) implement features as they promised and clearly state what is and what it isn't
2) easy to understand public relationship especially with marketing and sales (this would avoid catastrophe with pricing of Horizons)

or

1) implement easy to understand features (but hard to master) in the game that will be fun and engaging for a very long period of time
2) make sure grind is rewarding - best grinding games have this set properly

or

1) ensure that present ingame features work 100%
2) make them feel as complete and not basis for something that will or will not come in the future (that way 10 years development plan would come as enrichment not like something we waited for was too long)


I write this because I love the game and after playing it almost for a year and a half, it really feels boring and empty while I see immense potential. By potential I mean: this can be the game of games and instead it is a mild space simulator with aspiration to become a mild mixture of things.

 

[robbyp]

You will never get a perfect system of instanting until the intenet is perfect, all players have high bandwidth/low latency connections, all the network gear is great and does not have issues. I'm not willing to wait for Elite until that utopian day comes. I want to play it now. So we have to live with the problems.

Its the same with the feature set - sure we can have more, and make some of the previous features better, but again I'm want to play it now, and accept its going to evolve, and enjoy the current state its in.

I've got over 800 hours of enjoyment out of this game already.

 

[smartroad]

On the other hand, I wish FDev could be more straight forward about the finer details of their plan instead of just reiterating over and over about multicrew and what not, and basically saying "trust us, it will be cool".

But that is the issue that the OP is writing about. David tried to get into the finer details with the dev diary and this thread (among many) is the result.

Any large project will start with a list of things you want to have in it. Along the way timeframes, money and realistic realisations means that parts of the list get clipped or cut out entirely. Perhaps the mistake David made and the DDF made was going into too much specifics and not using the 'we would like XYZ to happen if possible' type responses. As you mention I think David was also excited about getting a new version of his baby out and was being very candid, perhaps too candid! You manage expectations by managing the information given out.

I think FDev have learnt from that, as you point out, by talking about only the broad strokes. The minor details shouldn't be revealed until it is almost ready to be released or they know it will be implemented. Hence the drip feed of new features once you start getting to the release of the major feature.

I think that is also why you do not see any of the devs on the forum any more (aside from some of the boss ones and the community team). It is to manage the information going out to ensure that what is said is what is planned and actually going to happen.

As a Kickstarter backer am I disappointed/frustrated that there seem to be a lot of good ideas that have been left on the cutting room floor? Yes I am, reading the original post reminded me of a few things I was/am looking forward too. However I also understand that big projects nearly always provide the 'big features', but the small features that back them up can change through necessity, time or cost. If there was anything that has annoyed me though is that the original dev diaries should have been more tempered/filtered, the DDF should have been more obviously a design ideas forum not decisions. But that is the advantage of 20/20 hindsight I guess.

 

[inkmmo]

But that is the issue that the OP is writing about. David tried to get into the finer details with the dev diary and this thread (among many) is the result.

Any large project will start with a list of things you want to have in it. Along the way timeframes, money and realistic realisations means that parts of the list get clipped or cut out entirely. Perhaps the mistake David made and the DDF made was going into too much specifics and not using the 'we would like XYZ to happen if possible' type responses. As you mention I think David was also excited about getting a new version of his baby out and was being very candid, perhaps too candid! You manage expectations by managing the information given out.

I think FDev have learnt from that, as you point out, by talking about only the broad strokes.

I hope you are right, because right now FD is acting passive aggressive that unsatisfied customers will complain, they will stay quiet, unsatisfied customers will give up and move on, FD will release new season and generate a bit more hype for sales and thus cycle repeats.

Right now it is too much of this: http://i.imgur.com/jdYT7Rt.png

 

[Patrick_68000]

The promises only bind those who believe in them. But I can not wait for the book of the concept art

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

https://sideways8.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/tree-swing-project-management-large-552x400.png

I cannot give you enough Rep for this as it is so true. When designers get together they go nuts - come up with all kinds of wilds claims and possibilities, very much like when someone suggest something for this game. Then all the yes men jump on board and a press release is put out, hype train beings but there is a problem...

The hype train never returns to the station. People stay on it for years hoping it will arrive at the destination promised...

The reality is that the designers dreams are given to others who live more in the world of spreadsheets and funding.... This seems to lead to Ideas/2=Reality. Which of course is then diluted by other factors such as ability of the team to realize the 'vision' (I hate that word ).

The professional in me say's that all of these things could well be in some plan to be developed over time, not unheard of in the world of MMO's but that's a whole different debate .

I doubt Frontier will respond to this, they seem to have forgotten that this is no longer 1984, we now have social networks, we talk more to our customers, we expect more from the companies we do business with.

The more I get to know Frontier the more I see an 'old school' software house mentality trying to survive and adapt... It's painful to see and frustrating to deal with but what you going to do?

Buy a ship with no game?
Explore a cartoon?

Personally I'm going to stick around, it's only a £30 a year subscription

 

[robbyp]

@Bran Tse Mallory. +1 rep.

I agree with the first part of your post. The second, I think Frontier communicate a lot more now, much improved recently. Zac/Ed/Gary/Michael are always posting, there are lots of events going on youtube.

The main problem is that they allowed themselves to be drawn into promising the moon during kickstarter. And no-one can deliver that. Thats why they are more circumspect with promising features and timelines now. They have learnt a lesson.

 

[BigDuke6ixx]

I doubt Frontier will respond to this, they seem to have forgotten that this is no longer 1984, we now have social networks, we talk more to our customers, we expect more from the companies we do business with.

The more I get to know Frontier the more I see an 'old school' software house mentality trying to survive and adapt... It's painful to see and frustrating to deal with but what you going to do?

No point them coming here when so many of their customers are arrogant, rude, illogical, self righteous, unreasonable and overflowing with feelings of entitlement.

 

[cpunk]

No point them coming here when [...]

That is just the philosophy of bury one's head in the sand. First, it makes everybody you cited being right, and secondly, it leaves EVERYBODY else clueless, with the possibility that more of the second group joins the first. Not just clueless but also disapointed and left with unawnsered questions and expectations. What about the others, the ones that ask rightful questions, that discuss and are waiting? it is right to give them just a big silent nope?


If there was a justfication, that one would certainly not be the best, if not the worst.

 

[BigDuke6ixx]

That is just the philosophy of bury one's head in the sand. First, it makes everybody you cited being right, and secondly, it leaves EVERYBODY else clueless, with the possibility that more of the second group joins the first. Not just clueless but also disapointed and left with unawnsered questions and expectations.


If there was a justfication, that one would certainly not be the best, if not the worst.

You can't placate most of these people because their minds (illogical) have been made up.

With a ten year development plan in place, is it the time to start complaining that everything isn't included? And also, is it the time to conclude that everything that's thus far missing will never be included, ever?

 

[John Xenir]

No point them coming here when so many of their customers are arrogant, rude, illogical, self righteous, unreasonable and overflowing with feelings of entitlement.

How about speaking to the rest of them? I'm not saying FDev doesn't, but your logic escapes me. Not to even mention you are picturing entire Community by the most vocal minority, which is not the best foundation to start with.

 

[cpunk]

With a ten year development

My post never was about the ten year development, but the justification you made to justify the lack of communication and presence of FD team on the forums.

And I repeat, with that sort of justification, it seems more unfair than anything else and still looks like the head in the sand.

 

[sewerratuk]

My post never was about the ten year development, but the justification you made to justify the lack of communication and presence of FD team on the forums.

And I repeat, with that sort of justification, it seems more unfair than anything else and still looks like the head in the sand.

The problem with FD communicating their ideas on this forum is that some people start posts complaining that they are not fulfilling all the suggestions

 

[Sooden]

Had to re-read the OP again after seeing some of the replies, was wondering why some people where being so sarcastic and/or hostile. Well, I don't think its because of OPs post...

OP just took the time to look over all the hype FD said, which was really to keep peoples interest and probably not nailed down to a time scale, or even fully confirmed at the time (FD are a lot more careful about that now, being tight lipped on a lot of things). Have done this my self, had a concept, fleshed out the roadmap, then got exited about the ideas and fed out information to keep people interested in the early stages, only to find out plans change.

So, its understandable that OP seems a little let down by what has changed or not happened (yet, or never will) but its not their fault for not knowing that FD took this angle of customer interest retention. Respect to OP for the post (and guts knowing the backlash they would get from some).

OPs points are valid (don't just make this about the damage model*1) and understandable, but what FD did here is also understandable, they didn't mean to mislead (well not in a evil way Mawahaha).

When a project is an ongoing development that's is released as retail product (not beta) with plans to add more content, its very had to give out correct information about what there will and may be, and time scales, as this depends on so many other factors (Sales, staff they can use, other planed projects and so on). This style of came development is kinds new and we are used to games coming out complete, with all planned content, and expansions also being complete. FD does not use this structure as they used sales from a release to fund the development of a released product.

The released product will be bare bones to start with and core road map content added along the way, then depending on sales, times ect... other content will be add. The way it was explained in dev dairies was misleading to anyone (and that could be a lot of peoples) who didn't know about this system

In conclusion, technically, some promises where broken but that's just due to poor management of information that was given to the public. Something FD have really tightened up on now

P.s. When reading someone post, try to see both sides of the argument (I know its hard to do, and I don't always get it )

*1) I have gotten damage on my anaconda from bad landings. Seem to not matter where you are damaged and its nowhere as detailed as it was proposed to be. Ty OP for bring that up, I though I had dreamt that

 

[TheSporkLord]

The Conda has that damage module in the game. But what point are you trying to make? That not everything in a ten-year plan has been added after one year? If so, that is correct. If you want to make a different point, can you state it plainly?

I hate how in modern game developement, appaerently version 1.0 doesn't mean finished game anymore. Hell, it means nothing.

If you promise features during the alpha and beta phases of a game, is it THAT strange to assume they're going to be in version 1.0? y'know THE FINAL RELEASE VERSION? Hell, most of the things mentioned here so far don't even seem that hard to do. I might be wrong about that, but surely they could have added some of those things instead of powerplay or CQC?

Ohh nevermind. "games are never finished". The whole idea of releasing a barebones game and making it good over a period of 10 years seems litteraly the most stupid development plan ever. Because it requires that enough people give a damn for 10 years straight. Which will never, ever happen.

I remember the good old days where the game they told you about was the game you got. Well appaerently freaking not.

Say what you will about Star Citizen taking long. At least they're putting everything they promised in, hell even more than they promised since procedural fully explorable planets weren't even part of the original 1.0 release plan. But were supposed to be an expansion.
Come to think of it, people on here constantly bash Star Citizen for taking too long etc. But according to your "10 year plan" excuse, Elite will take many years longer to complete than Star Citizen.

I'm not complaining that planetary landings weren't in ED 1.0. I knew that was going to be the case, and they were open and honest about that, kudos. But so many of these things mentioned here, were said like they were going to be in ED 1.0 which they weren't.

Even during Beta 1 about 1.5 years ago they were saying in the newsletters that "exploration is comming soon and it's gonna be like this and have this!" and then it actually came about a month later and it was just "point at planet and win".
And when they tell you what you should have gotten, and you're left with only a little of that promise actually delivered. I can only be dissapointed.

The funny thing is I still love this game, alot.
It's just that when so clearly shown what could have been it just makes me sad and frustrated.

 

[BigDuke6ixx]

Ohh nevermind. "games are never finished". The whole idea of releasing a barebones game and making it good over a period of 10 years seems litteraly the most stupid development plan ever. Because it requires that enough people give a damn for 10 years straight. Which will never, ever happen.

Crystal balls.

 

[TheSporkLord]

Ah, you mistakenly thought all those things would be included in 1.0? A somewhat silly but honest mistake I guess, and now you know better.

Mystery solved!

Why? Is it that strange to expect a finished 1.0 full release to have all the features promised during the hyping up of said release? What kind of strage world did I grow up in then where that was exactly the case with good games, and games that didn't do that were classified as bad games.

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

@Bran Tse Mallory. +1 rep.

I agree with the first part of your post. The second, I think Frontier communicate a lot more now, much improved recently. Zac/Ed/Gary/Michael are always posting, there are lots of events going on youtube.

The main problem is that they allowed themselves to be drawn into promising the moon during kickstarter. And no-one can deliver that. Thats why they are more circumspect with promising features and timelines now. They have learnt a lesson.

Thank-you.

I agree that they are getting better but I think they could do more. The community team, while doing a lot of fun things, could well act as our 'bridge' between the developers and us with weekly updates on matters raised. This at least gives us a little feedback on the issues that are being highlighted and the response/time-frame (when applicable).

Knowing there is light at the end of the tunnel is not as good as being able to see it

I hate how in modern game developement, appaerently version 1.0 doesn't mean finished game anymore. Hell, it means nothing.

Never did

dBase 2 - There was never a dBase 1, it was decided that it would sound better if people thought this was the second product... It worked very well back in the early 1980's!