Wonderful, so how about fixing the bug whereby those of us that have hit "Elite" in trade ranking don't have any way of getting access to the founders world, as is supposed to happe.
Bulk Sale Fee? Hidden Tax For Traders?
- Thread starter Kubicide
- Start date
Wonderful, so how about fixing the bug whereby those of us that have hit "Elite" in trade ranking don't have any way of getting access to the founders world, as is supposed to happe.
Michael Brookes
Game Director
BlackReign
Banned
My thoughts exactly. So the grind is long and tough, and the benefits are prohibitive. Man, I'm having so much fun.....
If that is the case the product should be taxed, not the vessel. As currently implemented you're punishing the successful traders for having larger ships. That is a very socialistic economic system you have implemented. This will spread down to medium size ships as well, since larger ship ownership is cost prohibited due to a tax being placed on the ship and not the cargo. This smells of the economic model NOT being dynamic, as you're trying to compensate for the players ability to over flow the market with goods that are in low demand and/or high supply. This is not representative of a true supply and demand economy. As a true supply and demand economy wouldn't allow for the bulk sell of goods that have little or no demand or high inventory levels. The seller would simply refuse to purchase the cargo, since it would just sit in his/her inventory. Fix the economic model and stop making up the rules as you go along.
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BlackReign
Banned
The fee is Bull. It shouldn't be there. It's there because the economic engine in ED is flawed at it's core. Period.
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Cosign...repped.
Wake up.
It's obvious.
We're all supposed to go back to Vipers no matter how much we've worked to get ahead.
Large ships are out. Too many successful players too fast. EVERYTHING is getting nerfed. The game now is really to see if you can keep up with the changes without losing your cr balance.
It's obvious.
We're all supposed to go back to Vipers no matter how much we've worked to get ahead.
Large ships are out. Too many successful players too fast. EVERYTHING is getting nerfed. The game now is really to see if you can keep up with the changes without losing your cr balance.
There should completely be a limit a station's willing to buy of something if they're not interested for whatever reason. The fee makes no sense.
Now, if someone wants to implement usage fees at their station based on size of ship and/or amount of cargo they're carrying, that's a different conversation and should be a local and/or faction decision.
Now, if someone wants to implement usage fees at their station based on size of ship and/or amount of cargo they're carrying, that's a different conversation and should be a local and/or faction decision.
There is no need for a bulk tax, the game economy isnt even supply/demand, it makes no sense, prices are artificly fixed.
It just replenishes goods every X minutes, and demand every XXX minutes each day.Remove tax.
I was just adding that "tax" as an economic game dynamic possibility. I overall agree this tax is out of place. I hope the devs are far from thinking this is settled game economics.
BlackReign
Banned
The Permit access star systems are a sad joke. There's absolutely no incentive to gain access to these systems.
This.
Framing the problem as a "tax" or a "fee" isn't helping the issue either because it doesn't represent what is being "simulated" economically. It leads people to think about the problem in the wrong way.
Think of a middle man who buys your cargo and has to incur costs for storage while finding new buyers after you've flown off. As a trader you're offered a lower price because the middle man has to pay the bills as well and can't shift the goods straight away. The middle man offers you a "best price" as a result, its going to be a bit lower.
Agreed though that it would be good to have this going on in a more transparent way though: perhaps having the price per unit drop while you zip through the amount of cargo you're selling. The most profitable price is quite clear, the point of reduction is also clear. As a trader you can now choose between the convenience of selling the rest at a lower margin, or moving elsewhere.
However in any simulation there have to be trade-off's and this is one of them. For the simplicity of a single buy/sell price you don't have to worry about finding buyers as the middle man would - waiting for new buyers to turn up would be rather unexciting as a trader when you can be out there making the next credit.
This is the earliest post I can find on the "Lakon effect" - it has been in since October 2014. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=48645&p=858537&viewfull=1#post858537
What is low demand exactly? Because I seem to be getting hit with this fee on goods that are marked high, with over 300k units supplied or needed.
There is a solution to having a large ship and not losing your money. Do what I did, it's the only solution that makes sense, don't log into the game. The aweful, poorly written game that I had so much hope for. That squandered so much potential and so much supporter money just to nerf it so hard it becomes unplayable, at least unenjoyable
I've noticed this happening too, it completely sucks for the people who have worked hard to get to the large ships. I've only got 248 Cargo capacity but my profits have been cut drastically recently 
I wouldn't mind if there was another decent way to make large amounts ofCR but there isn't, not compared to finding some decent trade routes and working your way up to being able to use them with a large ship.
I would love to have it explained in cold, hard figures. That way I can wrap my head around it and try and decide if I want to carry on.
I wouldn't mind if there was another decent way to make large amounts ofCR but there isn't, not compared to finding some decent trade routes and working your way up to being able to use them with a large ship.
I would love to have it explained in cold, hard figures. That way I can wrap my head around it and try and decide if I want to carry on.
Sad, so sad.
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Economics should be fluid, situational, and supply/demand driven. This was how it was sold - remember talk about goods being more valuable the more jumps away from the supply the demand was? Yet I wonder how many players [and I hold my hand up as one of them] have ended up taking a full cargo hold of Goods 'A' to station '2' no more than 1 jump away, selling them all, buying Goods 'B', and heading back to station 1. We are as culpable as the system in this. However, why do we need to dock at a station to find out what the prices are there, why can we not see actual trade reports on the system map rather than 'this type of economy generally imports these things and exports these other things'? Presumably this has been hitting the Rare runs less than the standard traders, meaning Rare runs are even more worthwhile. Basic trading, the very thing that should be the backbone of your galaxy, is the thing being worst hit. What have you done against bounty hunters with this? nothing, it doesn't seem to affect them as they are not dealing in the comoddities market. Nor are explorers. So why the discrimination against traders? If they are making too much compared to the other professions, adjust the global economy by changing the prices, not adding a reduction to the profits.
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And if you have to slow down players, you should have instigated a 'Docking Fee' which depends on ship size rather than some 'stealth tax' reducing profits. This means that no matter what you are selling or buying, you are paying the station administration for the use of their facilities. It should be small enough, especially for the smallest pads, that it's not going to bankrupt players, but can be quite hefty for the largest pads as those ships can make an awful lot of profit each time.
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Economics should be fluid, situational, and supply/demand driven. This was how it was sold - remember talk about goods being more valuable the more jumps away from the supply the demand was? Yet I wonder how many players [and I hold my hand up as one of them] have ended up taking a full cargo hold of Goods 'A' to station '2' no more than 1 jump away, selling them all, buying Goods 'B', and heading back to station 1. We are as culpable as the system in this. However, why do we need to dock at a station to find out what the prices are there, why can we not see actual trade reports on the system map rather than 'this type of economy generally imports these things and exports these other things'? Presumably this has been hitting the Rare runs less than the standard traders, meaning Rare runs are even more worthwhile. Basic trading, the very thing that should be the backbone of your galaxy, is the thing being worst hit. What have you done against bounty hunters with this? nothing, it doesn't seem to affect them as they are not dealing in the comoddities market. Nor are explorers. So why the discrimination against traders? If they are making too much compared to the other professions, adjust the global economy by changing the prices, not adding a reduction to the profits.
.
And if you have to slow down players, you should have instigated a 'Docking Fee' which depends on ship size rather than some 'stealth tax' reducing profits. This means that no matter what you are selling or buying, you are paying the station administration for the use of their facilities. It should be small enough, especially for the smallest pads, that it's not going to bankrupt players, but can be quite hefty for the largest pads as those ships can make an awful lot of profit each time.
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Traders in Elite forget one basic rule of the market, any market: they are servants, not masters. They may like to think they're in control, and of course which business owner does not like to think that way? But they are servants, and the customer is king. It is as it should be.
In real life, as a customer, you choose whom to buy from. If the salesman, shopkeeper or trader doesn't offer you a good enough deal, you switch to the next trader. "So what if I want to buy 500 instead of 100? What bulk discount or other sweetener will you give me?" If the answer isn't good enough, you go elsewhere. And unless there's a cartel or the item is single-sourced, you shop around until you're happy. As the customer, you are king.
When you dock and trade with people at a starport, it's you who is the servant, not them. Your customer is entitled to think you'll give them bulk discounts. "Don't like it? Sell your stuff elsewhere then. There's a queue of traders right behind you who'll be happy to deal with us instead."
The customer is king. You are the servant. There is no stealth tax.
In real life, as a customer, you choose whom to buy from. If the salesman, shopkeeper or trader doesn't offer you a good enough deal, you switch to the next trader. "So what if I want to buy 500 instead of 100? What bulk discount or other sweetener will you give me?" If the answer isn't good enough, you go elsewhere. And unless there's a cartel or the item is single-sourced, you shop around until you're happy. As the customer, you are king.
When you dock and trade with people at a starport, it's you who is the servant, not them. Your customer is entitled to think you'll give them bulk discounts. "Don't like it? Sell your stuff elsewhere then. There's a queue of traders right behind you who'll be happy to deal with us instead."
The customer is king. You are the servant. There is no stealth tax.
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Yeah, it's funny how that works isn't it....
Maybe.
Maybe.
But that isn't what's happening here. What's happening here is a trader shows up with 500 widgets and the customer is somehow entitled to demand the bulk discount even if he only buys one.